3 months barefoot walker or no walker??

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jessieblue

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Hi lovely barefoot experts, Looking for opinions on whether or not to use my yards horsewalker. It is free on days of restricted grazing (like today, yes already ours are in 24 hrs!) They get an hour turnout in rubber menage or gravel turnout area and can have an hour on the horsewalker. I think an hour is far too long, but was wondering would you put your fairly new barefoot horse with collateral ligament desmitis (diagnosed in July by MRI and reason for going barefoot) on the walker as a way to increase the movement rather than him just stand in. I ride him every day for about 30 mins, now including trot work. He is going very well and just a bit footy over stony uneven going. Smooth roads he is fine and can trot happily. Obviously off road riding is all finished for me now so only have school and roads. I am not using boots as my trimmer thinks he is comfortable to just increase his work gradually without them for now. The walker is tempting me as this could be extra comfortable miles on the worst weather days. What would you do? By the way my vet said no walker in the beginning, but then he also said no riding/turnout or shoes taken off, so not sure I should go by that or not lol. Any tips on getting the miles under my belt in difficult weather gratefully received and anyone know if I am ok to start more work i e trot and canter as long as he feels comfy? Thank you. x
 
I'd be a bit wary, not because barefoot but because of the collateral ligament damage. Mine had soft tissue damage inc collateral ligament damage and vet advised that the constant turning on circle that a horsewalker creates was not good for this type of injury.

I wouldn't want to say at which point you can assume that the ligament damage is resolved and he's be OK but I would be a bit cautious of tight circles and do what I could in terms of straight lines.

Would depend a bit on the diameter of the walker too, some rehab yards have extra big ones.
 
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Ok thanks, mixed opinions much like myself! Vet initially said no walker or lungeing, my farrier couldnt understand why he said "no walker" I can see the reason you wouldnt want to do tight circles with collateral ligament inflammation, but I see quite a lot of horses using them who have had similar issues. Im not sure the collateral issue will ever be resolved so to speak as it is a repetitive strain injury type of thing. This is the very reson I have taken him barefoot as I believe better support within his own hoof is the best way to protect the ligaments in the future, hopefully allowing him to do most things without causing further damage. Well thats the plan. I am indeed caught between both sides of the discussion, maybe I will leave it for a while longer before reconsidering. One thing I will say though is that my vet initially told me 30 days box rest which I refused to do for the same reason, my horse would have been stabled alone all day and night while other horses were turned out, he box walks if in alone and he would have been walking in TINY circles all day and night pretty much!Im not sure how this would have helped his collateral ligaments heal but this was actually the medical advice. Bearing this in mind walker doesnt seem such a bad idea??
 
would not and have not ever used one-constantly walking in the same direction in a circle, I don't see how that could benefit a horse in any way shape or form. physically it puts far more strain on one side of the body/legs/hooves than the other, mentally how mind numbing?

look for a yard that has appropriate turn out.

turn out in a rubber manege-over extention and flexion of joints/ligaments and tendons-more and more research is showing that rubber chipping or similar is the worst surface for horses to move about on due to the strain on the soft tissues in the limbs and also the bounce it creates through the rest of the body whilst doing nothing to condition the soft tissues through resistance
 
Ah if only it were easy to find another yard!! I only moved to this one in April, guess why? Because there was no winter turnout at my other yard at all. I looked for ages and had to go from DIY to full livery as there are just no decent DIY livery yards in my area that dont have a looooong waiting list (which I am on by the way and still have never had an offer of a stable) I have 2 horses so you can imagine its not easy. I moved to the best livery yard for miles around and had the promise of all year turnout which included all weather turnout areas for the worst of times and the use of the walker. To me, this was an improvement on what I had. Any turnout would be better than 24/7 in the stable save for the hour I might exercise them for. An hour or so in the pea gravel would be great for my barefoot horse but at the moment the gravel is full of farm machinary and the yard has also restricted turnout from the first shower of rain, so its the rubber menage for an hour or nothing assuming i dont use the walker. I really dont know where else I can go, I have searched and searched and anywhere with good facilities has no vacancies or no turnout as they dont want their firlds mashed! What can you do? Before the diagnosis of collateral ligament strain I would have used the walker as my horse came from a professional event yard and went on the walker every day while there, however with this in mind I have steered clear but am definitely going to struggle with keeping him moving through the winter as I can see turnout is going to be rarer than rocking horse *****!! Its not my ideal either to put them for hours on a walker. I was only considering a 20 min period on the worst days when they werent able to get out. Not sure if standing in a stable in one place is a better or a good stretch out to break the monotony. By the way I do not intend to use this as a way of opting out from exercising myself. I get both my horses out every day no matter what, but I still feel 23 hours in the box is too long. Please people understand I am just trying to find the best of a bad situation as I know I will not easily find any yard that will be better. The folk of essex seem to rather keep fields than horses lol
 
Yes, in essex, south woodham ferrers, near chelmsford and maldon where there seem to be more horses per square mile than grazing! Yards are very hard to find within a reasonable travelling distance and most livery owners seem to suffer from some form of OCD!!
 
same area as me

birkett hall has all year round turn out, even in the snow if you are happy to turn out then you can, the risk is yours to take, off road hacking, 2 maneges and a round pen the yard is scruffy and messy but has what the horses need, no services currently on site but we do get by with helping each other out, some of us will do services on the quiet. my daughters mare is currently here due to location and the fact she is out 12/7 all year round.

brazils farm all year turn out (possibly a waiting list) one manege, off road hacking.

galleywood- wood farm good grazing all year round-no manege but fantastic hacking. my mare is here due to location to work and great hacking, still living out

lots and lots of yards with all year round turn out in the area, can't remember them all off the top of my head.

what do you need in a yard?
 
I have had my name down on brazils list for 4 years! I check in with them from time to time but no joy. I guess they take recommendations before waitlisters. Birkett hall i have looked at but no services is difficult for me as I dont want to come up and down too many times. Also having to source your own hay/haylage and bedding would be a pain as you only have a small store room to store it in, which is also the tack room I am told, with 2 huge horses who eat a bale of hay a day I would be forever getting hay straw etc in small amounts. This works out a pain and expensive. I was DIY at edwins hall previously and it cost me as much as full livery in the winter due to buying small bale hay and woodchips. That was without any services. I left as they didnt turn out in winter even though at first they said they did. I have a horse with collateral ligament desmitis who im rehabbing barefoot, I need a good menage and roads that are safe for a variety of surfaces to work him on. The hacking around woodham ferrers isnt good in winter most bridle paths are too muddy and deep and the roads are tretcherous even tho they are quiet lanes. I am happy to stay full livery for the winter but need good facilities to keep them both going throughout. floodlights etc. There is another yard in galleywood, parklands, which seems nice but again waiting list. Rawreth equestrian is a possibility but there is no road hacking thats safe really so all off road and obviously farm rides closed in winter, so that leaves school or nothing. Nothing is ideal and I really wonder how many yards really do turnout all year. I have enquired at most that I can find online or through recommendation or in essex rider, when you push them on it it seems they all keep in at certain times which is understandable, but in my experience the goalposts certainly move once you get to a yard. I also need my horses to have adlib hay as one has ulcers and I dont really want turnout in a big herd as one of mine gets bullied and the last kick cost me £1000 as he got cellulitis! I am fussy, but then im paying a lot of money a month and I have very high standards about keeping my horses. It seems I am in a tricky position as the yards with the most facilities seem to be the ones that dont want their fields messed up! I thought the all weather turnout arrangement at my yard would be ideal, pea gravel is great for barefooters and the horsewalker was to be a life saver in the worst of weathers. Circumstances change and so do your needs I guess. I dont want to be a yard hopper, I hate moving the horses unecessarily. Am trying to make this work, but will keep looking for a back up plan as well.
 
jessieblue said:
I have had my name down on brazils list for 4 years! I check in with them from time to time but no joy. I guess they take recommendations before waitlisters. Birkett hall i have looked at but no services is difficult for me as I dont want to come up and down too many times. Also having to source your own hay/haylage and bedding would be a pain as you only have a small store room to store it in, which is also the tack room I am told, with 2 huge horses who eat a bale of hay a day I would be forever getting hay straw etc in small amounts. This works out a pain and expensive. I was DIY at edwins hall previously and it cost me as much as full livery in the winter due to buying small bale hay and woodchips. That was without any services. I left as they didnt turn out in winter even though at first they said they did. I have a horse with collateral ligament desmitis who im rehabbing barefoot, I need a good menage and roads that are safe for a variety of surfaces to work him on. The hacking around woodham ferrers isnt good in winter most bridle paths are too muddy and deep and the roads are tretcherous even tho they are quiet lanes. I am happy to stay full livery for the winter but need good facilities to keep them both going throughout. floodlights etc. There is another yard in galleywood, parklands, which seems nice but again waiting list. Rawreth equestrian is a possibility but there is no road hacking thats safe really so all off road and obviously farm rides closed in winter, so that leaves school or nothing. Nothing is ideal and I really wonder how many yards really do turnout all year. I have enquired at most that I can find online or through recommendation or in essex rider, when you push them on it it seems they all keep in at certain times which is understandable, but in my experience the goalposts certainly move once you get to a yard. I also need my horses to have adlib hay as one has ulcers and I dont really want turnout in a big herd as one of mine gets bullied and the last kick cost me £1000 as he got cellulitis! I am fussy, but then im paying a lot of money a month and I have very high standards about keeping my horses. It seems I am in a tricky position as the yards with the most facilities seem to be the ones that dont want their fields messed up! I thought the all weather turnout arrangement at my yard would be ideal, pea gravel is great for barefooters and the horsewalker was to be a life saver in the worst of weathers. Circumstances change and so do your needs I guess. I dont want to be a yard hopper, I hate moving the horses unecessarily. Am trying to make this work, but will keep looking for a back up plan as well.
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the roads round Woodham are as safe as any where else-I work in East Hanningfield and have been involved with horse at BH for 8yrs, so ride and have ridden on those roads frequently for a long time, turn out at BH is def ALL yr round has always been that way, if you pushed for it you would get turn out just for your 2, I do some services at BH and many people share by one turning out and one getting in each day, hay and bedding storage is limited to 14 bales per stable but you can rent extra storage for £10 per month so very cheaply.

I know of many people that have moved both on and off Brazils in recent times, we have we have 5 at Bh that moved to Brazils and then back again.

both brazils and BH have off road hacking that is private so not as muddy as local bridle paths, there are lots of yards about that do turn out (I shall get some more names), but it depends what is most important to you-for me turn out is top priority and I would not entertain it being limited or non-existant
 
jessieblue said:
my horse would have been stabled alone all day and night while other horses were turned out, he box walks if in alone and he would have been walking in TINY circles all day and night pretty much!Im not sure how this would have helped his collateral ligaments heal but this was actually the medical advice. Bearing this in mind walker doesnt seem such a bad idea??
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I had a similar situation with one recently that injured itself and was box walking, spoke to the vet and the medical advice was definitely not that this was acceptable but "we can't have that as he'll do more damage. We discussed alternatives and a pen in the field next to his mates worked for this horse.

Because of where the collateral ligaments in the foot are straight lines are better, with my tb who had the same injury and came back from it, I actually waited till I had at least one new hoof (about 6 months) before I did any circles. He'd been at Rockley so the first few barefoot months were fast tracked too.

Good luck with your yard search, I'm next door in Herts and it never fails to shock me how difficult it is to get decent turnout in Essex.
 
Yes I have a feeling I am not getting the calls from brazils when stables become available. I have phoned many times and they always take my name and number, but still no call. tbh, brazils would be ideal for me, I have always hoped I may get in there, its on crows lane so not on the horrid edwins hall road. Although crows is also tretcherous now and in need of resurfacing! It was actually myself and another lady from my yard that got edwins hall road resurfaced. I had a horrid fall on the road with my horse and so did she due to it being terribly slippery. We complained and threatened legislation if it happened again and they did indeed resurface. I will definitely consider birkett if i could rent more storeage and have turnout for my two together. I wasnt told this when i enquired. Off road hacking would be good too. Turnout is important to me but I guess in the worst of weathers I can understand it has drawbacks. If you have any other yard names I am always looking for options. I have considered middlewick farm in southminster which seems really nice but it is a long way out if I should start competing again. Seems nothing is ideal. Thanks for your help and suggestions though, has given me some options.
 
Thanks criso! Did your rockley horse make a good recovery? I havent sent my boy there yet but will do if I cannot get him right myself. He is doing well and he has all but as whole new hoof capsule himself, maybe 1/5 to go so although i have kept him here I have seen remarkably fast hoof growth over the summer. He is sound on all but stony going. Did your tb have collateral desmitis in both fronts? How was it diagnosed and what were his symptoms? How long was he at rockley? Sorry so many questions but glad for any experiences as this is a lonely road sometimes. I kept my boy on field turnout throughout we have walked in hand starting with 5 mins a day in pea gravel and working up to 30 mins on grass. I have done straight lines up until the last week or so and have had to utilise the menage as the weather has been bad.
 
jessieblue said:
Yes I have a feeling I am not getting the calls from brazils when stables become available. I have phoned many times and they always take my name and number, but still no call. tbh, brazils would be ideal for me, I have always hoped I may get in there, its on crows lane so not on the horrid edwins hall road. Although crows is also tretcherous now and in need of resurfacing! It was actually myself and another lady from my yard that got edwins hall road resurfaced. I had a horrid fall on the road with my horse and so did she due to it being terribly slippery. We complained and threatened legislation if it happened again and they did indeed resurface. I will definitely consider birkett if i could rent more storeage and have turnout for my two together. I wasnt told this when i enquired. Off road hacking would be good too. Turnout is important to me but I guess in the worst of weathers I can understand it has drawbacks. If you have any other yard names I am always looking for options. I have considered middlewick farm in southminster which seems really nice but it is a long way out if I should start competing again. Seems nothing is ideal. Thanks for your help and suggestions though, has given me some options.
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no yard manager at BH has its pros and cons, just push for what you want hard enough and you will get it PM me I may be able to help
 
He did recover and was in full work including jumping and cross country but sadly last year developed a problem in his shoulder - about as far away as you get from the foot!. Despite an op he didn't come sound and is now retired. Feet got big thumbs up in all the investigations though.

He had desmitis of the collateral ligaments, dsils and ddfts in both fronts diagnosed by MRI. He was at Rockley for about 4 months (Frankie if you want to look for him). There are a couple of others there with similar injuries, I think Bailey's issue was collateral ligament too if you look for him on the website.

I know a horsewalker would make life so much easier and it is tempting but I personally wouldn't. At least if you are riding in the school or long reining, even if it's circles you have control over the movement and can adapt if he's not coping or doesn't look comfortable. Try and get on the roads every minute you can, that's the best thing to slowly build up his foot.

The last thing I would say is don't be disheartened if you have a blip or setback, it's not always straightforward, try to look at the overall trend.

Good luck.
 
Another no vote for the walker. An old mare of mine had the same injury diagnosed by MRI by Sue Dyson in Newmarket and she said categorically no walker until mended due to the strain put on the injury due to turning. If it was just the barefoot wiyh no injury I wouldn't worry.
 
Ok, no it is! Thank you so much and criso, you are so right it is a difficult road had a big setback today with vet and farrier comments. I thought I was doing so well! Anyway he is sound and comfy so onwards and upwards. Thank you twiggy will pm you for more info. Very kind of you to help. xxx
 
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