3 ring bit/gag what's the difference?? curb or not?

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jen1

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Just wondering what's the difference with using a 2 or 3 ring gag without a 'curb' and a Neue Schule Angled Tranz Universal which has a leather 'curb'. There's a lot on here about using multi ring gags with 2 reins or roundings but should they also be used with a curb strap or is this just used on the Neue Schule bit?
 
iv not seen people riding or ridden myself with a curb on dutch gags, no experience with 2 ring gags though, i would have thought they'd maybe be sold with the curb if it was meant to be used.

sorry not much help but im sure you'l find answers as i learn something everyday about bits on here!
 
The Dutch/Continental Gag should be used with a leather curb and 2 reins, although I hardly ever see anyone using it in the correct manner. Bits with lever action should always have a curb strap.
 
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The Dutch/Continental Gag should be used with a leather curb and 2 reins, although I hardly ever see anyone using it in the correct manner. Bits with lever action should always have a curb strap.

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That is correct
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!!I have never seen anyone that uses this bit use it correctly!!
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Ah that's interesting so how come none apart from the NS are sold with a curb strap? If you look on any sites selling these types of bit none show them with the strap! Are all these saddlers selling them incorrectly?
 
I personally after seeing sooo much misuse of this bit feel that it should be used on two reins,reason being"seems to be the fashion item for kids with no hands and uncontrollable ponies"!!Not sure but i think this bit was designed to be used with 2 reins???May be wrong???
 
A deviation from how the bit was designed to be used is not necessarily "incorrect" use but simply different. Like many horse related and non horse related matters - there is rarely a right and wrong way of doing things only differences of opinion. Many people are happy with the results from using these bits both ways on certain horses and, if it works, neither particular way should be deemed incorrect.
 
I disagree. Some items it doesn't matter; others it definitely does! When equine items are designed, such as bridles, bits, halters, girths, saddles, blankets etc, there is generally a way in which the designer makes sense of what he has made. There's not much point in designing a particular type of bridle or controller halter which is for a particular use, if the buyer doesn't know how to fit it correctly. In the same way as there's not much point in having a lever action bit without something to lever it against, but if that's how some people choose to use them, I really couldn't care less.

I was answering the lady's question above; yes it is incorrect to use this bit without a curb and without double reins.
 
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I disagree. In the same way as there's not much point in having a lever action bit without something to lever it against, but if that's how some people choose to use them, I really couldn't care less.

I was answering the lady's question above; yes it is incorrect to use this bit without a curb and without double reins.

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Surely the gag levers at the poll instead of the groove where the curb normally sits e.g. leverage that forces the horses head onto the bit?

I think sometimes people don't realise how strong a bit is - a "happy mouth" continental/dutch gag won't decrease the leverage...
 
It levers at both. These bits were taken from western bit designs where all long shanked bits are used with a curb for correct effect.
 
I thought it was originally designed by and introduced by Pessoa, and never originally had a curb, or a recommendation about two reins.
 
Therefore!! have a look at the following 3 bits. They have been taken from the same web site, no preference to the shop just the first one that came up on google.

www.shop4bits.com/item--Neue-Schule-Leather-Curb-Strap--NSLCSBLK.html

www.shop4bits.com/item--3-Ring-Continental-French-Link--3-Ring-Continental-french-link.html

www.shop4bits.com/item--16mm-Tranz-Angled-Lozenge-Universal--8023u.html

Then I read down and found the following!!!

"A curb strap is used with the reins at any option but usually in conjunction with one rein on the bottom ring to maximize on the gag and curb action. This is an old showjumping trick which is still extensively used. A Curb does not have to lie in the chin groove in order to be effective - if you think about many western bits the curb strap is often employed further up"

So this states that one rein can be used! Although the description further up states best used with 2 reins.
Anyway my initial point was should these 2/3 ring gags therefore all be sold with the curb strap regardless of how many reins are used?
 
Quite possibly. They are however, still curb bits based on the far earlier western bit designs. All long shanked bits work correctly when used with a curb. Whether or not people use them like this or not is entirely up to them.
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Should they? Who am I to say they should or they shouldn't LOL!! Most of my good western bits did not come with leather curbs; they are usually sold seperately.

As previously said, I really couldn't care less how people use these bits I was simply answering the question for the OP. For correct effect however, using them with a curb strap will give the rider control over the levering effect of a curb bit. Using them with 2 reins will give overall control of when the gag-effect comes into play.

I can see why people would not choose to use either on this bit, mostly because they are English riding and the style is not the same as western. I ride western, so I wouldn't see the point in using this bit without a curb strap.
 
Sooooo what would a rider/horse feel, what's the difference, between using a bit of this type with the curb and without? If the gag action works on the poll to bring the head up what does the curb strap do?

Sorry to sound thick but just interested!!!!
 
OOps think we have crossed in the ether and you have answered my question!!

Yes I am talking about riding English style. Just that these bits seem to be so popular here, the fashion I think, and it's interesting to see if they are being used in the manner (as you said earlier) for which they were originally designed!

I must admit I wouldn't have known to get a curb strap with one of these bits as they seem to be sold without and I can't say I have even seen any hanging up next to the bit in any tack shop, so the purchaser would have the choice to get one, and apart from the NS one (I posted a link earlier) I have never seen any others with a curb strap, it was seeing that one that prompted the original question!!!

All very interesting!
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The gag action should lower the head, not raise it. Most common reason horses raise their heads in gags are because they are single jointed so the extra presure from the longer shanks causes the joint to hit the roof of the mouth. A straight bar will correct this (although not if a habit has formed...)

The only gag that will lift the head is a Cheltenham, in fact most others are misnomers.

Unfortunately this bit is so often misused it has developed a bad reputation when in fact it can be very useful - in the right hands. Just as not every horse will go in a snaffle, not every horse will go well in one of these.

An excellent source of information is The Complete Book on Bits & Bitting by Elwyn Hartley Edwards - goes into some detail about gags and the such.
 
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That is correct
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!!I have never seen anyone that uses this bit use it correctly!!
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I do
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P is ridden in a 3-ring complete with two reins and a leather curb strap
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I must admit most people are not even aware of the fact that the bit should be used like this though
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Should I stop riding her XC in this bit?

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Why would you do that? If you and your horse are happy with your bit then why change?? Dont worry about what others think and just with what you know works
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