3 Ring Gag - difference of opinions

[AppyLover1996]

Hi Guys,

So I'm riding a pony for a friend who is in a 3 ring gag, on a grackle bridle with a running martingale.

When out riding the other day, another livery casually mentioned that 3 ring gag bits should be used with rounding's as you can break the horses jaw if not - I've spoken to a few other people including my instructor and the general consensus is that you can use rounding's but you don't have to, whilst others have said that they've used 3 ring gag bits for years with only one set of reins.

Can someone please enlighten me as to if I should start using rounding's or not? Pony goes lovely in the bit and the extra breaks (for lack of better words!) are only rarely required.

I'm always looking to improve horse knowledge and care, so I always ask questions to get as many views as possible to enable me to make a decision

 

[Alibear]

What's the mouthpiece like? I used one with a plastic straight mouthpiece that never needed to be used with roundings and no one ever questioned it.
With horses, there's rarely a definitive answer, as they're all individuals, so be prepared to be open-minded and also as it's your friend's pony they would normally get the final say on what tack is used.

 

[KittenInTheTree]

I'm of the opinion that they should be used with two sets of reins and a cavesson nose band. I also wouldn't want a martingale added to the mix.

 

[ihatework]

The purist would say 2 sets of reins. Probably a back strap.

And hey, always worth aiming to use any equipment, especially bits, as sensitively as possibly so it wouldn’t be a bad aim to have.

The realist accepts the bit can be used on one rein. Pairing it on one rein, with a grackle and presumably a martingale whilst set not on the snaffle ring is actually quite a set up! It’s the type of set up you can actually escalate evasions if a horse is fighting it. Just worth bearing in mind.

In your shoes, just because you can have a particular set up, doesn’t mean you can’t aim to soften it over time.

 

[AppyLover1996]

What's the mouthpiece like? I used one with a plastic straight mouthpiece that never needed to be used with roundings and no one ever questioned it.
With horses, there's rarely a definitive answer, as they're all individuals, so be prepared to be open-minded and also as it's your friend's pony they would normally get the final say on what tack is used.

Hi, it's a sweet iron mouthpiece with a nutcracker action (if I'm remembering the term correctly )

I'm totally aware that I most likely won't be able to change the set up as it's my friend's pony, I was asking more to further my knowledge if that makes sense?

Thanks for your reply!

 

[AppyLover1996]

I'm of the opinion that they should be used with two sets of reins and a cavesson nose band. I also wouldn't want a martingale added to the mix.

Hiya, any reason why you wouldn't use with a martingale? Again I'm asking more to further my knowledge than anything else

 

[AppyLover1996]

The purist would say 2 sets of reins. Probably a back strap.

And hey, always worth aiming to use any equipment, especially bits, as sensitively as possibly so it wouldn’t be a bad aim to have.

The realist accepts the bit can be used on one rein. Pairing it on one rein, with a grackle and presumably a martingale whilst set not on the snaffle ring is actually quite a set up! It’s the type of set up you can actually escalate evasions if a horse is fighting it. Just worth bearing in mind.

In your shoes, just because you can have a particular set up, doesn’t mean you can’t aim to soften it over time.

Hiya,

Many thanks for your reply - I always aim to ride as softly as possible and only escalate my aids (and by escalate I don't use a whip as he is scared of them, I mean put my legs on a bit firmer) when I have used other options - I'm lucky my friend's pony is trained by voice and seat, so seldom have to go further than that.

My friend mentioned she uses the second rein when jumping plus the martingale, and when hacking out doing fast work in groups - can I ask what effect this has please - I can imagine apart from being a nightmare to tack clean, it can be extremely harsh if the pony is jabbed in the mouth accidentally? In terms of fighting, if he decides that he doesn't want to go somewhere, his main go to is to throw his head up, bronc, spin and go backwards - when he's done that with me, I've always shoved my hands forward whilst keeping a contact so he knows I'm still there to try and encourage him forwards. I sometimes get off and walk a bit before hopping back on board and he seems happy enough with the method.

I would ideally like to broach the subject with my friend if possible and suggest bits with similar actions but not as harsh consequences if that makes sense, but for now I shall continue riding softly and see where the road takes us

 

[Widgeon]

Pony goes lovely in the bit and the extra breaks (for lack of better words!) are only rarely required.

If the pony is going that well in the setup, I wouldn't change it (although I can't comment on the martingale, I'd be interested to see what other posters think about that). You can only damage the horse's jaw by excessive or inappropriate use of the bit, which it sounds like you never do, so I would ignore that comment from the other livery....some people just can't resist sticking their oar in where it's not needed

 

[AppyLover1996]

If the pony is going that well in the setup, I wouldn't change it (although I can't comment on the martingale, I'd be interested to see what other posters think about that). You can only damage the horse's jaw by excessive or inappropriate use of the bit, which it sounds like you never do, so I would ignore that comment from the other livery....some people just can't resist sticking their oar in where it's not needed

I aim to ride with really soft hands as my friend's pony is very sensitive (but quite strong in some circumstances!) and in general ride softly, as I always think it's a privilege that we get to ride horses and we should always thank them where possible

 

[SilverLinings]

Roundings used to be seen as only for young children who weren't capable of handling two sets of reins, as they dull the effect of the bit. The idea of a bit that is designed to be ridden with two sets of reins is that you ride off the 'snaffle' rein for the majority of the time and only engage the curb/gag rein when needed. If you ride with roundings then both bit actions are always being engaged, both the mild one and the more severe one, and they often contradict each other (e.g. the snaffle rein on a pelham encourages the horse to lift their head and the curb rein encourages the horse to drop it). Roundings do make it harder to engage the more severe action as strongly as if individual reins are used though. IMO using roundings rather defies the point of using a bit with two rein connection points.

No rider should ever be pulling at a horse's mouth hard enough to break their jaw (or cause any other physical damage), which could happen with any bit, even a snaffle. If that kind of force is 'needed' to stop the horse then there is a training issue and the horse needs to be brought back to basics (and the type of bit being used should also be looked at, and whether the horse has a physical reason why it is struggling with being ridden).

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I used to ride my very strong Draft mare in a NS Universal, with a lozenge, with 2 reins and a curb strap. 95% of the time we were fine on the snaffle rein but the curb rein was very useful the other 5% so that I was in control, not her. Far better to ride with 2 reins than roundings where the bit calls for that. The person who criticised your set-up doesn't know what they are talking about.

 

[SilverLinings]

I used to ride my very strong Draft mare in a NS Universal, with a lozenge, with 2 reins and a curb strap. 95% of the time w were

I think roundings can work well for some horses although I don't think they should be used automatically, I think two reins should be tried first. I have owned a couple of very quirky horses over the years who have taught me that there are some who go against the book, and take a bit of sussing out to discover what works for them

 

[KittenInTheTree]

Hiya, any reason why you wouldn't use with a martingale? Again I'm asking more to further my knowledge than anything else

If you read up on how that bit works, and then compare it with how a martingale works, you will likely understand the potential problem there.

 

[meleeka]

I used to ride my very strong Draft mare in a NS Universal, with a lozenge, with 2 reins and a curb strap. 95% of the time we were fine on the snaffle rein but the curb rein was very useful the other 5% so that I was in control, not her. Far better to ride with 2 reins than roundings where the bit calls for that. The person who criticised your set-up doesn't know what they are talking about.

I rode in one for a while. I used to have the curb rein knotted on my horses neck so that I only had the snaffle rein under normal circumstances. I only ever needed the curb rein at canter, so it was easy to just use it when needed.

 

[Palindrome]

You can't break the horse's jaw if your grackle is tight enough.
But the gag has a lever effect and the martingale also has a lever effect so why use both in combination? It could cause the horse to throw it's head due to too much pressure and generally upset him needlessly.

The question is usually why use more or stronger tack, not why use less.

 

[maya2008]

3 ring gags, fitted correctly (so not too short on the cheekpieces) and ridden sensibly, aren’t all that strong. If you only ride on one rein the bottom ring has more oomph but you lose a ton of steering in return so it’s not all that useful. I have used two reins with one on the snaffle ring and one on the bottom ring, but it was a temporary fix while retraining a pony.

I have mostly used them on the second ring with one rein, for slightly more brakes and a lighter feel than a snaffle, as I cannot pull (would dislocate my fingers) so need to bit up instead if pony might get excited. Not had a problem in over 2 decades of hacking/jumping like that. I like them because I can school on the snaffle ring, drop down one for anything exciting, and not have to change the bit.

In terms of breaking the jaw - not heard of it happening. They are very common bits, mostly ridden on one rein, so you would think someone would have done if it was easy to do.

I ride without noseband or any other attachments, I should probably add.

 

[irishdraft]

I use 2 reins so the martingale is on the snaffle rein but it's a bit of a handful. Really I think 3 ring gags if your riding on bottom ring particularly should have a back strap this stops the bit from over rotating in the mouth. I know lots of people who use them out hunting and I've never known anyone break a horse's jaw with them so I think this is pretty unlikely.

 

[LEC]

I quite like a universal and grackle. Always my next step up if a snaffle isn’t quite cutting it. I like riding xc on very little contact so suits me just for an easy half halt to set up and keep going. I really struggle with Pelham’s as find they lack a bit of feel so a good half way step.

 

[AppyLover1996]

You can't break the horse's jaw if your grackle is tight enough.
But the gag has a lever effect and the martingale also has a lever effect so why use both in combination? It could cause the horse to throw it's head due to too much pressure and generally upset him needlessly.

The question is usually why use more or stronger tack, not why use less.

Hiya,

The martingale has always been a part of the pony's tack - he has a habit of chucking his head around and after extensive tests done to rule out pain etc, the vets have advised it's just a habit he got into and to add a running martingale.

The gag is a newish addition (only been in use for the last 2 ish months) and when I spoke to my friend, she is planning on only using it as a temporary measure before dropping to something softer, so the bitting situation will be changed soon ish When I asked her why she was using both, she replied her instructor told her to, had ridden the pony in the set up before she did and commented how it was only to be used as a short fix. She's planning on getting a bitting expert out soon to find the perfect set up for her pony

 

[splashgirl45]

I used this bit for my mare who was fine most of the time but if she ran off I struggled to hold her in a plain snaffle. I used 2 reins on the Dutch gag and rode on the snaffle rein most of the time, I regarded the bottom rein as my emergency only rein, so a bit of a safety net. I wouldn’t use rounding as you are then using the more severe part of the bit all of the time