30 minute pony

[ApacheWarrior1]

I am at my wits end with my cob. He is 9 years old and I have owned him for three years. We have been on a few different yards but this quirk rears its head every time..... He is your typical bombproof cob- well behaved, sensible, lives out can live in company or alone - the kind of cob everyone wants.... but every time we go out, whether on our own or in company, after 30 minutes of riding he start playing up.... it start with a pause to scratch his leg/nose then will stop and spin round with a squeal and a bit of a bounce, or will just set his neck and try to march home..... I am a useless rider, so this is shaking me and I end up getting off and walking home usually - even if we are in company he will just turn and march home regardless of the others continuing the ride. I dont want to give up on him but at the same time I am at my wits end as I dont have the tools to sort this out and theres no one else to help me. Im scared that he wants to gallop off and is simply young and bored with just ambling around the same routes ...

 

[Barton Bounty]

If it were myself… I would stop the hacks at 15 minutes and turn back, then gently increase the time, effectively trying to trick him into thinking thats time up but only on YOUR terms
Do you have someone else that could try hacking him for you to see if it is just a learned behaviour

 

[Gloi]

I'd check your saddle too in case he gets sore as time goes on on a ride.

 

[MiLeTa]

If you ride him in a school, how long do you ride him for? I'm just wondering if he is getting uncomfortable with something after the half hour mark?

 

[Red-1]

As he doesn't possess a watch, I would say he is uncomfortable somewhere. I would do saddle check and work up from the vet.

What happens if you do half an hour in the morning and half an hour in the afternoon? Or if he does a ride out for 25 minutes, dismount and have a picnic and ride back? Or a 2 hour 'ride' out in hand? Or, 20 minutes ridden, 20 minutes in hand then 20 more minutes ridden? Is it related to location or the same if you do one block 20 times? Or, if he is boxed out to 45 minutes away from home and merely ridden back?

I mean for those to be an indication/help as to identify what may be wrong, not that you only ever ride him like this.

 

[ApacheWarrior1]

If it were myself… I would stop the hacks at 15 minutes and turn back, then gently increase the time, effectively trying to trick him into thinking thats time up but only on YOUR terms
Do you have someone else that could try hacking him for you to see if it is just a learned behaviour

Im trying to get someone to take him out to see if he does it with a different rider as he may well be better behaved for someone who isnt scared of him! I also wonder if he just needs a big old gallop with a decent jockey but my confidence has just disappeared - 3 years in and Im feeling worse than when I first got him . Anyone that knows him knows he is an absolute dude - but they dont see the 30 minute bucks and squeals

 

[FourWhiteSocks]

What a shame as it sounds like you have found your perfect equine partner apart from this. It could be so many things; discomfort from tack (not just saddle, check bridle, bit and any other accessories) or pain (is he fit enough? is he sound?), is he getting too hot and itching? (his first step of scratching his face might suggest this) It could be his confidence, your confidence, pressure stacking (esp if he is a quiet soul, he could just be reaching his limit without showing normal horsey signs of being upset), or, the least likely, a learnt behaviour with the intent of getting out of work (which then goes back to the question, WHY is he wanting to stop work?, repeat 'til fade).

I would work with a professional on this one, someone you and your horse feel comfortable with. Follow their advice and try not to let other's opinions get in the way. Best of luck with this. Sending lots of confidence your way. Take your time, Rome wasn't built in a day.

 

[Barton Bounty]

Im trying to get someone to take him out to see if he does it with a different rider as he may well be better behaved for someone who isnt scared of him! I also wonder if he just needs a big old gallop with a decent jockey but my confidence has just disappeared - 3 years in and Im feeling worse than when I first got him . Anyone that knows him knows he is an absolute dude - but they dont see the 30 minute bucks and squeals

Yeah i get that hopefully you can get someone to do that, but till then don’t give up on yourself! The more you get out, the more your confidence will grow. I went through a period like this with BB , and it knocked my confidence for a bit, not because I had fallen or anything but because it wasn’t enjoyable when I was worrying whether he was going to take a flaky! So I did what I said to you, I got on him at the same time every day.. did the same route and just built on it! Dont get me wrong.. I was telling myself stop being a p*ssy, youv ridden a lot worse etc and then all of a sudden it was just natural.

 

[ApacheWarrior1]

If you ride him in a school, how long do you ride him for? I'm just wondering if he is getting uncomfortable with something after the half hour mark?

I dont have a school - we are just in a field on our own but I have been on several yards with him and same happens - dead on 30 minutes - start tossing his head, scratching his leg, then a little squeal and buck or spin. can set your watch by him. saddle has been checked and its all good...

As he doesn't possess a watch, I would say he is uncomfortable somewhere. I would do saddle check and work up from the vet.

What happens if you do half an hour in the morning and half an hour in the afternoon? Or if he does a ride out for 25 minutes, dismount and have a picnic and ride back? Or a 2 hour 'ride' out in hand? Or, 20 minutes ridden, 20 minutes in hand then 20 more minutes ridden? Is it related to location or the same if you do one block 20 times? Or, if he is boxed out to 45 minutes away from home and merely ridden back?

I mean for those to be an indication/help as to identify what may be wrong, not that you only ever ride him like this.

 

[Spotherisk]

I was never the bravest rider, but I did used to get livid with a horse taking the mick, and I would be very vocal so with yours I would instinctively shout ‘how dare you, get your ass down that bloody road, get on, trot, trot, trot, leg yield, half halt, get on’, etc etc. slow to a walk when you sense he’s a. Behaving or b. Wondering what just happened, and praise lots, I mean absolutely loads so you can tell he’s pleased with it. Do lots of transitions, they don’t have to be perfect, you’re just engaging his brain (and feet).

As others have said though I’d want to be sure of no pain, as a simple check ride him either with no numnah, or a clean one which will show sweat/dirt and check for imbalances or pressure points after your ride.

Edited to say that having re-read your post, when he goes for that scratch on the leg I would go for the finger in the neck strap, the pony club kick and the roar to ‘get on!’ And see if that stops it happening.

 

[ApacheWarrior1]

lots of sensible suggestions there thanks its difficult on my own when Im scared so might have to just walk him on my own

 

[ApacheWarrior1]

I was never the bravest rider, but I did used to get livid with a horse taking the mick, and I would be very vocal so with yours I would instinctively shout ‘how dare you, get your ass down that bloody road, get on, trot, trot, trot, leg yield, half halt, get on’, etc etc. slow to a walk when you sense he’s a. Behaving or b. Wondering what just happened, and praise lots, I mean absolutely loads so you can tell he’s pleased with it. Do lots of transitions, they don’t have to be perfect, you’re just engaging his brain (and feet).

As others have said though I’d want to be sure of no pain, as a simple check ride him either with no numnah, or a clean one which will show sweat/dirt and check for imbalances or pressure points after your ride.

yesterday was the first time the others had seen him do this as we normally bring up the rear on a hack but im too scared to get angry with him in case he retaliates.

 

[Dexter]

PSSM type 1 test as a matter of urgency. If that's negative then you need to look further.

 

[Red-1]

lots of sensible suggestions there thanks its difficult on my own when Im scared so might have to just walk him on my own

I guess it depends on how important it is to you. I would do a vet performance workup, after the saddle checked by a different saddler. The performance workup would include flexion tests and nerve blocks and further investigation on anything that the flexions throw up.

If all is clear, I would then pay someone to do some of the investigation exercises I suggested to see if it is the geography, the rider's weight or just a habit of time to go (as in learning to go out for longer for a picnic). He could even go to a schooling yard for a professional to extend his range.

Out of interest, is he shod?

 

[Barton Bounty]

yesterday was the first time the others had seen him do this as we normally bring up the rear on a hack but im too scared to get angry with him in case he retaliates.

He wont retaliate!

And by backing down to him he thinks he is the boss and it taking the pee out you. Honestly! Do what @Spotherisk says! Be loud!! Assertive voice and then lots of praise when he is a bit further down the road. A treat may help. I did that and now hardly any problems but I still praise him and sound like a complete f@nny but I dont care tbh he does what I want now

 

[little_critter]

If you ride him in a school, how long do you ride him for? I'm just wondering if he is getting uncomfortable with something after the half hour mark?

I thought the same, especially as it starts with a nose scratch. Bridle fit maybe?

ETA Hmmm, I wouldn’t go down the ‘being assertive’ route. You say he’s perfect in every other way. It sounds like he’s not generally the sort of horse to take the mick, so I would listen to him saying that at the 30 minute mark something is making him unhappy / uncomfortable.
As he does this behaviour in different places (having been at different yards) then it sounds like it time related rather than location related. I’d go over his tack with a fine tooth comb. Try him without a noseband, get his bit checked. Is the browband too tight against his ears? Can you notice any strongly sweaty / rubbed spots when you take the bridle off?
Ditto on the saddle, get it thoroughly checked by a trusted saddler.
Where about are you, people here might be able to suggest trainers who could look at this holistically.

 

[Rowreach]

I really think you need to rule out a physical issue before you (or a stronger rider) starts beasting him through it. A lot of horses who experience discomfort and attempt to communicate it will go further and be more submissive to a stronger rider - it doesn't mean that the underlying issue will have gone away ...

Far too many times I've seen horses who are struggling with a physical issue being forced to carry on by assertive riders.

I would start with the saddle though. What you are describing is often a saddle problem.

 

[MiLeTa]

Just to put the other side...

When I first had my boy, he could be a bit nappy, and the instuctor I had at the time told me to be very assertive and give him a pony club kick to get him moving- the result was not pretty or enjoyable! What I have found best to do with him is stay calm, and just redirect his energy with quiet hands and leg aids. If he spins, I let him walk a few steps, then turn him back in the direction I want him to go. Staying calm is the key with him, but appreciate it's really difficult when you're worried about what they are going to do!

Having said all that, I would be more inclined to agree with the other posters who have said to get further investigations done. It is possible that he is taking the mick, but it happening at the same point of time during the ride it seems much more likely that he is getting sore/ uncomfortable somewhere

 

[Tiddlypom]

As others say, it is most likely to be discomfort of some sort.

Dare I ask if you might be too heavy for him?

 

[LadyGascoyne]

There is quite a lot going on in your post, rather than just the 30 min issue.

You’ve touched on lacking confidence, thinking that you’re a useless rider, being on your own, not having the tools to succeed and also having been on many yards with him in a 3 year period. That doesn’t sound like a recipe for improving your riding or his behavior, and it sounds as if you are feeling quite overwhelmed. I’d see your current issue in that context and almost start as if it’s day one again.

I’d start with checking teeth, saddle and having a physio look at him. I’d also check your weight, holding his saddle. And I’d weight tape/ body score him. Carrying any excess weight causes strain which should be factored into fitness and soundness, regardless of whether it’s his or yours.

When I’m happy everything seems reasonably comfortable, I’d start groundwork. I’d work on walking out in-hand, lunging, long-reining. I’d probably follow a strict programme of walking in-hand 15 min, then 20 min, then 30 min, then 40 min. And then I’d long rein the same pattern. Then I’d alternate lunging in trot, with long-reining or hand-walking days in between. If there was any resistance without being ridden, then it would be vet work-up time for me.

If all ok, after 4-6 weeks, I’d introduce ridden work on alternate days, instead of lunging. 15 min, 20 min, 30 min, 40 min. Any resistance, and vet work up.

As slightly adjacent thoughts - how long have you been in this particular livery/ field situation? And how much change has he had? Could he be very unsettled?

And you say you are alone, are there any other horses kept with him? Or is it alone from a YO/ support perspective? Is that perhaps not the best fit for you?

 

[irishdraft]

I think after you have completed various checks of tack etc & presumably your happy with your cobs soundness and general well being I would invest in some professional help for both of you. Yes horses can have physical issues but also they are not stupid and can quickly latch on if they think they would rather do something else. It sounds like you need your confidence building with your cob anyway so having someone on the ground helping maybe walking out with you on board can really give you the confidence to deal with him. One of my horses would start the nose rubbing but it was a ruse to get his head down if he saw some tasty grass & than would get extremely annoyed if I didn't let him. Hope you can get it sorted I know how difficult it is when your on your own & can feel completely stuck.

 

[smolmaus]

Someone recently told me that rubbing their face on their leg is a self-soothing behaviour when they're stressed. Lightbulb moment for me, my mare does it quite a lot, usually after a car passes or she has a little spook. She will sometimes use it as an "excuse" to dive for grass as well, which is also self-soothing. She doesn't show her stress in big ways so it took me a long time to put that together but she is telling me that she is feeling it.

 

[Parksmum3]

I would personally start off by just taking him for a in hand hack with just his bridle on so you have a bit more control then a head collar, see if he does it. Then if all is fine the next day put his saddle on but again just take him in hand. If he’s ok with those then pay a experienced rider to take him for a hack and see what he does.

 

[Highmileagecob]

This sounds very similar to my cob, who used to cart my daughter home on frequent occasions when he thought he had done enough. We worked out that the numerous saddles we tried seemed to block his shoulder movement, and he also had a large tongue and a lot of cheek (literally) that made bitting hit and miss. Eventually sourced a working hunter saddle that was a good fit, and put him in a hanging cheek snaffle with a double joint. Big improvement, and daughter and friend could enjoy much longer rides. When my daughter got engaged and handed him over to me, I tried him treeless and bitless, and never went back to traditional tack.
How often do you ride? At nine years he is mature enough to be coping with daily hacks for two or three hours, but I appreciate everything else has to be right first before this can happen.

 

[Landcruiser]

This sounds like a rider confidence issue to me OP. I may be barking up the wrong tree but it sounds like learned behaviour from your cob which you are enabling/anticipating and you have a catch 22 situation going on. At 29 mins in you are consciously or subconsciously wondering if he's going to stop - and subtle change in you is his signal to go for it. If you wear a watch, ditch it. Don't look at your phone. Vary your route and the time you are out. Above all, get a good sympathetic trainer onboard and have some lessons. You could also have a read of "Perfect Confidence" by Kelly Marks.
All of this is assuming horse is healthy and saddle/tack fits.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I would get a 2nd opinion on the saddle fit and check the bridle/bit very carefully. Is the browband too tight for instance? If you are sure that the tack isn't causing him pain, at 29 mins, I would dismount and continue along the same route inhand. Do you do circular/lollipop routes, or do you have to retrace your steps, no matter how long you are out?
I have no experience of PSSM that I know of but I did wonder about it as I read your OP.

 

[AmyMay]

Double check tack fits and if all is well do a ‘sit out’. Providing it’s safe to do so.

The other thing to consider is boxing up to alternative spots.

 

[Quigleyandme]

Some really good advice here. PAS suggested a second opinion on saddle fit and I would second that especially if your current fitter sold you your saddle. Maybe you could post some pictures on here to let the knowledgeable have a look as a starting point.

 

[SatansLittleHelper]

Stress causes histamine to be released which is why alot of horses rub their faces when bridled.
As horses simply don't have the part of the brain that produces so called "naughty" behaviour it's obvious he's trying to tell you something and I'd echo what others have said regarding check ups.

 

[Kaylum]

But yes it could be anything. Pollen, too hot, is he clipped, have you tried without a noseband. Basically as already said get a professional to look. Photos of him tacked up would be good and you on him.