3rd hack on youngster - I knew this would happen! *long*

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Berkeley

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Ok so Hack Number 1 was two weeks ago. I went out on the road and the fields with my friend riding her school master. Last week, on Hack Number 2, we went down a track, then one another with puddles all around then onto a park, round up a field and then back home. I can't tell you how proud I was of my boy for being brilliant. He hesitated only once on the whole hack and that was due to a massive puddle that he refused to go over so I got off, lead him through it and got back on and carried on.

Today I thought I would venture out on our own doing the same route as last week. We got as far as the bottom of the track and it all went wrong. He refused to walk over a puddle first of all. So I sat there waiting patiently. In the end I got off and led him through it. I then got back on and he wouldn't move so I kicked him on. He went forward about 2 strides and stood still. There were more puddles, the same amount as last week, but he refused to go through them. He reared, little bucks, reared, reared, reared. They started to get bigger and more energetic so I got off and walked him over them. HE HAD NO PROBLEM DOING THAT! We then went onto the park but by that point he was so stressed out he just kept rearing. I decided to walk back the way we cam to home and then got on him half way up the track. He was as good as gold from there on. I trotted him all the way home. I have no idea what happened or what I am to expect next time because I gave up.

Sorry for sounding defeatest guys, I am just very disappointed.

Gutted
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You've trained him that when he refuses to move you will get off.

Young horses are extremely quick to pick things up. You need to have the nerve to demand that he goes forward and shouldn't really give up. I would only go out in company and would be bossier with him, he must go where you tell him.
I have to say, I would not ask a really green horse to go through puddles, it's something I insist on when they are a bit more established, but not when they are still learning to walk around & being grown up.
 
Ahh dont be too hard on yourself! when i got my youngster i was terrified of her, started alowly hacking her out with other horses then when i felt ok to take her on my own i got my mum to walk out with me on foot, then she gradually stepped back and away but just followed at a distance. In the end she left me completely and now she goes everywhere on her own. They do try you out when there new........sounds like my youngster did with the rears and puddles!
 
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You've trained him that when he refuses to move you will get off. Young horses are extremely quick to pick things up. You need to have the nerve to demand that he goes forward and shouldn't really give up. I would only go out in company and would be bossier with him, he must go where you tell him.


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Its all very well saying this but I don't want to be trown off if its on the cards. I will get off. Its back to ground work and schooling.
 
I have just started to have lessons which is great. I am focusing on teaching him to move forward. I have decided to shgorted the hacks and gradually work my way out further. I think perhaps I was a little too adventurous today.

I sat out 7 big rears. There comes a point when get off. You've got to be an idiot to continue to sit out something like that when it gets to that stage.
 
If you get off whenever there's a risk he's going to be naughty then he will be naughty all the time.

It is scary, but actually young horses are often crap at being naughty, they haven't learned nasty tricks like dropping shoulders, you should be able to bluff him into going by being vocal and with pony club kicks.
the worst thing you can do is be uncertain, he will lose all confidence in you.
I agree you should go back to ground work & just hack out in company for a while, but don't get off if you can possibly help it.
 
I really sympathise with you on this one - it is all very well people saying what you should do but they are not there when the problem arises and you have to handle it as you see fit!
I have a youngster who I have just started hacking and unfortunately I don't have the option of hacking in company so starting on our own from scratch - I started by having someone take me out on lead rope on her, then I rode with someone who walked with us, now I go it alone.
I think to move forwards on this you need to keep going out with a schoolmaster for a while and you yourself can also get confidence in overcoming problems with him, and he will get confidence in you at the same time. I do agree in not getting off if you can possibly help it but also understand how you must have felt in the situation. Concentrate on just keeping him going forwards, even if this means going round puddles etc! Good luck.
 
You need to be hacking this youngster out more regularly than once a week to instill confidence and manners in my opinion, at least every other day. If it is too dark for you to do that at the moment in the evenings then don't do it at all until you can move consistently on to the next stage of training.
 
It sounds like your horse is napping big style.Most likely from a lack of confidence in going out by himself at the moment.I agree that if he rears and you get off you are teaching him that it is ok,similarly if you allow him to trot towards home when he refuses to go forwards on the way out you are also teaching him that it is ok to go quicker towards home and could encourage him to try that as a tactic on your hack. I would take him out with other horses for quite some time and while out with those horses get him to go both in front and behind and in a group in the middle before you try to hack him alone again.
 
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I agree that if he rears and you get off you are teaching him that it is ok,

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Would people please stop going on and on about this. I know this I had no choice in my opinion.

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similarly if you allow him to trot towards home when he refuses to go forwards on the way out you are also teaching him that it is ok to go quicker towards home and could encourage him to try that as a tactic on your hack.

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This is very valid point. I didn't think about this at all.
 
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You need to be hacking this youngster out more regularly than once a week to instill confidence and manners in my opinion, at least every other day. If it is too dark for you to do that at the moment in the evenings then don't do it at all until you can move consistently on to the next stage of training.

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I would be inclined to agree with this comment
 
i understand what you are going through, my youngster was amazing on her first hack, even took the lead for a while. Second & third hack went ok & the forth went disasterous. She kept rearing, i fell off, she double barrelled my friend & then took off down the track, luckily we had closed the gate(most people dont) she was charging up & down the track until i managed to catch her. Got back on & she continued to rear. I forced her to go a bit further as calmly as possible & then took her home. Every time i have tried to hack her out since she has reared, & i made her do what i wanted before i rewarded her & went home (friend was also in a lot of pain by this point). Once you get going & she has a good trot/canter she relaxes, but you have to get over the arguement first.
Sadly ive not got the answer for you as i have turned mine away (she developed small splints - prob from all the rearing!) & am planning to reassess the issue when she comes back into work. My plan is to do lots of leading out,long reining, hacking with a schoolmaster & then onto the hacking alone
 
Jees - its not all fun! I am going to long rein him tomorrow over this problem track. I want to see from the ground what he does. I will get there like I have with everything else with him.
 
Don't be so hard on yourself.
In an ideal world ofcourse we would stay on board but I am one of more of a minority so it seems that will jump off said horse to walk it past scary object, I do not think it has ever made my mare worse, I have had her 18yrs, so I think its a fairly good case study!
Anyway, do whats right for you and your horse, they are all different.
Regards the trotting home after all that, yes, as noted that is a valid point as a negative after his behaviour, but never mind, onwards and upwards.
As has been suggested, only by doing it more and more will he gain his confidence, simples
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When I started taking my Id mare out for hacks a few years ago I didn't have anyone to ride out with so my OH used to walk with us which made her feel more secure. There were times when I rode out without my OH but if I had a breakdown in communication with my youngster I made sure she didn't get away with napping. What is your youngster like in the school? Does he respond to your leg aids? I agree with other posters in that a youngster will learn very quickly that you are lacking in confidence and which buttons he needs to press to get his own way. Have you tried long reining him on the same routes, as that may help. Otherwise is it possible to get someone to ride him out for you who is more confident with a cheeky youngster? I'm not knocking you at all as I have a youngster and despite having backed and ridden away quite a few horses over the years I don't feel as confident as I used to and will pass the next stage of her education on to a professional as I neither want to be injured or have my youngster ruined. Have to say I'm not a great believer in always going out with another horse as youngsters do need to be able to get out on their own early on and should be able to look to their rider for confidence in scary situations. Good luck with your boy and let us know how you get on.
 
Calm down, all is not lost! He is a baby and the rearing is him 'shouting' at you. He is insecure and is not deliberately being naughty. Go back a step. Hack in company, first last in the middle, whatever, but not alone just yet. Rearing is his default mechanism and will probably always be so. Try not to get into a situation where he will rear, avoidance is the key. Good luck and don't worry, just 'listen' to what he is telling you. xx
 
Rather than geting into an escalating battle (and FWIW I wouldn't stay on a rearing horse either) how about changing the tactic? So you're asking him to walk through a puddle and he doesn't want to/thinks he'll sink... at that point you could either be determined and let it escalate, or you could change tactic, like get off, or ask something else of him, or ask it in a different way.

You've got off and lead him through fine, but he might be cottoning on to this cause & effect, so how about next time you walk around the puddle... or sideways... or do a big circle, or detour, or flex him... anything which will get him thinking yes rather than no. Lots of reward for positive behaviour, and depending on your training mechanisms either instant and fair punnishment/negative reinforcement/ ignoring for the unwanted stuff... its just got to be consistent.

good luck x
 
Firstly, how old is your youngster? What has he done so far?

If we are dealing with a real youngster (which I take it yours is as you said this was only his 3rd hack), then there is no way he should be made to go out on his own at the moment, end of story. Follow a nice sensible nanny for a few months, hacking 3/4 times a week if you can, letting him take the lead when he feels brave but not pushing it.

Getting off is not a great lesson for a baby to learn, and can cause more harm than good, but can see why you did, if you are worried by his behaviour then it would be better to find a professional to get him going so he can gain confidence

Hope this helps
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I completely sympathise with you as I have had two rearing horses and it is not fun! Now, it is all very well saying that you shouldn't get off when the horses is rearing, but at the end of the day, if you are on your own, you have to consider your own safety. When a horse is continually rearing on its own, it is stupid to stay on unless you are a professional rider. You certainly won't be doing the horse any good if you fall off and break something! I would suggest that you should always hack with either another horse or a person on the ground. Perhaps the person on the ground could lead the horse through the puddles while you encourage him on?
Good luck, I know just how terrifying it is, particularly when you're alone and keep us posted with your progress.
 
Fantastic words of wisdom from everyone. Thank you.

My boy is rising 5. He's not done much at all. I have a friend who helps me out with her school master however I can't pin her down every weekend, its not fair. This is why I tried going out on my own today.

I am learning about him more and more. He is not malicious and I think the analogy of him rearing means he is shouting at me is true. I was shaking like a leaf. Its an awful thing to have to go through but I maintained as much composure as I could so he wouldn't get too nervous.

I will persevere. I will not send him away to a professional.
 
Gee, i don't think you have anything to be disappointed with. i think you both did well for your first solo mission.
Fwiw, you totally did the right thing be getting off when you did. What lesson would it be better teaching him, when he 'shouted' Mum listened and got off and gave him a confidence lead through the nasty scary puddles or when he shouted, mum ignored him and rode him as long as she could til she eventually fell off and he went careering home or god knows where, which would have been a mega scary drama. I know which option i think is best.
It is only teaching them that they can get you off if they actually want you off.
When my horse napped through being nervous of being alone on a hack, i would get off, lead her for a bit, back on til she got sticky again and then on. I was up and down like a slappers knickers
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. But it totally worked and now we hack out alone with no problem. She never wanted me off, she just needed a lead. I got there without a big fight.
Go back a wee step and go out in company but possibly still take him out for small distances on his own. I think you did great.
Don't want to get into a big argument about the getting off thing, just wanted to say how i see it and what worked for me.
 
Berkeley you will do fine! You have the right attitude and are not afraid to ask for advice. Don't beat yourself up about getting off. Actually most professionals I know will not ride a rearer, they cannot afford the chance of injury! Don't let this become a problem, just put it behind you and start a new day tomorrow. Going back to long lines is an excellent idea and I am sure you will see it through. Don't rush it, some horses just need a little bit more time. Long lines will get him going forward, remember, FORWARD, FORWARD. Good luck and keep us informed, you will do great! xx
 
If it is not possible for you to hack out in company, can you have someone come out with you on foot when you ride him, have him in a lunge line, to support you from the ground if needed? Also, even if it is not a good option for you to send him away to a professional, perhaps you could get someone out for a few sessions to ride him or support you as you ride him. It may be money well spent if you would like some support.
 
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Gee, i don't think you have anything to be disappointed with. i think you both did well for your first solo mission.
Fwiw, you totally did the right thing be getting off when you did. What lesson would it be better teaching him, when he 'shouted' Mum listened and got off and gave him a confidence lead through the nasty scary puddles or when he shouted, mum ignored him and rode him as long as she could til she eventually fell off and he went careering home or god knows where, which would have been a mega scary drama. I know which option i think is best.
It is only teaching them that they can get you off if they actually want you off.
When my horse napped through being nervous of being alone on a hack, i would get off, lead her for a bit, back on til she got sticky again and then on. I was up and down like a slappers knickers
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. But it totally worked and now we hack out alone with no problem. She never wanted me off, she just needed a lead. I got there without a big fight.
Go back a wee step and go out in company but possibly still take him out for small distances on his own. I think you did great.
Don't want to get into a big argument about the getting off thing, just wanted to say how i see it and what worked for me.

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Good advice. Love the slappers knickers bit
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When my horse napped through being nervous of being alone on a hack, i would get off, lead her for a bit, back on til she got sticky again and then on. I was up and down like a slappers knickers
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I really like this quote (and I don't just mean the slappers knickers part!). You say how I feel.
 
I don't think getting off is bad at all, I would sooner get off, lead through said area and get back on as opossed to getting both yourself and horse into trouble if you cannot cope with the situation. However, you will have to ride some things out.

But, I think you overdid it hacking him out 3rd time alone. Way too much for him (and you). You need to be sure, whatever you do you can cope with what might happen with a young horse, it's unlikely it would of gone well, considering he had a horse to follow his previous two time (which is nothing on the face of it). Don't underestimate the power of the other horse he had last time.
So advice would be hack out with company every chance you get, make them short and sweet. Another thing you could do, is lead him out in hand, if you are confident on the ground. Let him see the world a bit that way, it will help for when you do hack out alone in the future. Just don't set yourself up for failure, take it easy. Goodluck.xx
 
Hi, I really sympathise. I have just bought a 5 year old connie who is lovely but having hacked him out with my schoolmaster a couple of times I was really chuffed at how well it had gone. Third time out he just fell on his knees for no apparent reason, luckily he wasn't hurt but it has really dented my confidence as I couldn't come up with a reason he had done it. I am back to square one but I am determined to make it work. Don't give yourself a hard time about getting off, the main thing is for you to be safe. If you get back on again when the danger is passed there is no shame and the horse doesn't work out that he has won, you just got off to give him confidence and got on again. I had another young horse up with a Kelly Marks colleague and she maintained that there is no disgrace in getting off just as long as you do it to give the horse and you confidence and then get on again. It is silly to sit there terrified as the horse will pick up on it. Give yourself a pat on the back for coping with it and try to hack out with company for as long as it takes. Don't be pushed into doing anything you don't want to do. Good luck.
 
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