3yo competing in dressage-thoughts?

Tiddlypom said:
It's quite shocking how many people don't think that competing a 3yo under saddle may cause it long term harm. It'll be fine at 5yo most likely, but how about at 10yo?
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Something tells me that at ten this three year old won't be on it's last legs because of one local dressage competition it did.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
I often wonder why we have any rules at all, so many people seem to think that they are not important.
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SpringArising said:
The average Joe doing walk, some trot and a touch of canter (no idea what the pony will be doing but I somehow doubt it's schooling at PSG level...) isn't exactly going to cripple the thing.

The case is more likely to be it's going to be a walk/trot test for all of five mins. The pony might only be ridden once a week - there's no point assuming it's been hammered into the ground to get it to its first show!
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You may well be correct about the amount of work the pony is doing but that hardly addresses my point. Why do we have rules? Just so that those who so choose can ignore them?
 
Far too young, and also against the rules. The rules are there to protect the welfare of horses. I am surprised at the number of people on this thread who don't see a problem with it.
 
If it’s unaffiliated they may have called the venue and OKd it. We run unaffiliated shows and have a rule that ridden horses must be 4yo and over. A couple of years ago a lady called me and asked if she could bring a rising 4yo LR pony, for tack and turnout (walk only) with a tiny jockey on board, just to get some ring experience and I allowed her to do so on the basis that pootling around in walk with a little jockey would do the pony no harm at all.
Yes, rules are rules but IMO the 4yo rule in particular is based on animal welfare. If there’s not a welfare issue it wouldn’t be a big deal to me.
 
Wagtail said:
Far too young, and also against the rules. The rules are there to protect the welfare of horses. I am surprised at the number of people on this thread who don't see a problem with it.
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I agree with both your points Wagtail. This isn't the first thread where posters appear to think the rules don't matter in unaffiliated comps, never mind worry about the welfare of the horse.

ETA, bending the rules because it won't be a welfare issue is also wrong to me - where do you stop bending and how can you justify saying 'no' to one person and 'yes' to another who both want to bend/break the rules in different circumstances? If you want to give an rising 4 yr old ring experience, put it in an unridden class, there are plenty about!
 
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Wagtail said:
Far too young, and also against the rules. The rules are there to protect the welfare of horses. I am surprised at the number of people on this thread who don't see a problem with it.
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In 3 weeks time it will be 4. Would people be as annoyed if it competed on the 1st Jan as would be 4?

It’s not the same as competing a 3 year old in early spring. Also horse could be HC so not actually competing!
 
only_me said:
In 3 weeks time it will be 4. Would people be as annoyed if it competed on the 1st Jan as would be 4?

It’s not the same as competing a 3 year old in early spring. Also horse could be HC so not actually competing!
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No, because by that point it would be classed as a 4yo. Now it’s classed as a 3yo. Rules are there for a reason.
 
only_me said:
It’s not the same as competing a 3 year old in early spring. Also horse could be HC so not actually competing!
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But it would still be against the rules!

Perhaps next time I get in my car, I should drive on the right hand side of the road, just because I fancy it! The rules are there to protect every-one, not to be bent at will.
 
only_me said:
In 3 weeks time it will be 4. Would people be as annoyed if it competed on the 1st Jan as would be 4?

It’s not the same as competing a 3 year old in early spring. Also horse could be HC so not actually competing!
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Having observed how much mine changed between this age and their actual fifth birthdays, I would still feel it was far too much, too soon, but at least they would no longer be breaking the rules for the competition.
 
Is it not more likely the owners are a bit clueless and thought it’s Birthday was its DOB so did the youngstock class before this (when technically 4 as it has been all year?).
 
only_me said:
In 3 weeks time it will be 4. Would people be as annoyed if it competed on the 1st Jan as would be 4?

It’s not the same as competing a 3 year old in early spring. Also horse could be HC so not actually competing!
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Actually, I would still think it too young but it would not be against the rules so no one would have cause for complaint. However, your statement makes a mockery out of competition rules. Where would you draw the line? 3 weeks, 4, 5? 3 months, 6 months?
 
Asha said:
Irrelevant. Rules are rules .
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So your issue is not with the fact the horse is too young to compete but is simply against the rules?
The horse could be going HC so is technically no different from a GP horse doing a prelim to a rising 4 year old in a 4 year old class.

As an aside, I don’t agree with competing 3 year olds. But I’ve accepted that some do. I wouldn't compete a 3 year old. But I woud back and turn away till spring of 4th year.

I don’t think a walk/trot test 20 days before he is officially “4” is going to cause the horse to break down at the age of 8.
 
only_me said:
So your issue is not with the fact the horse is too young to compete but is simply against the rules?
The horse could be going HC so is technically no different from a GP horse doing a prelim to a rising 4 year old in a 4 year old class.

As an aside, I don’t agree with competing 3 year olds. But I’ve accepted that some do. I wouldn't compete a 3 year old. But I woud back and turn away till spring of 4th year.

I don’t think a walk/trot test 20 days before he is officially “4” is going to cause the horse to break down at the age of 8.
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Absolutely, the rules are there for a reason. Or else where do you draw the line ?

An early 3yo is unlikely to have an issue with a walk trot test. But at some point you have to put rules down to stop young horses being competed too soon. Not all have the benefit of being born in march
 
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only_me said:
So your issue is not with the fact the horse is too young to compete but is simply against the rules?
The horse could be going HC so is technically no different from a GP horse doing a prelim to a rising 4 year old in a 4 year old class.

As an aside, I don’t agree with competing 3 year olds. But I’ve accepted that some do. I wouldn't compete a 3 year old. But I woud back and turn away till spring of 4th year.

I don’t think a walk/trot test 20 days before he is officially “4” is going to cause the horse to break down at the age of 8.
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I understood even to go HC you have to comply with the Rules? That's what I've been told by a listed judge.

Also if it's only 20 days why not just wait?
 
There are people who can produce a 3 rising 4 year old to hold their own and win in a prelim test having had them under saddle a handful of SHORT times. (CS & FZ amongst many others.) On the other hand, there are others who can drill for 12 months or more for prolonged periods of time and still only obtain a solitary 6 as their highest mark.

A totally different discussion/argument depending on the individuals concerned.
 
gunnergundog said:
There are people who can produce a 3 rising 4 year old to hold their own and win in a prelim test having had them under saddle a handful of SHORT times. (CS & FZ amongst many others.) On the other hand, there are others who can drill for 12 months or more for prolonged periods of time and still only obtain a solitary 6 as their highest mark.

A totally different discussion/argument depending on the individuals concerned.
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But surely there is no debate about the rules?
 
Pearlsasinger said:
But surely there is no debate about the rules?
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Am happy to concede that rules are rules and agree totally.

There appears however to be a discussion on two levels in this thread (in my opinion). The first is re the rules. The second is re the welfare of the horse. It was concerning the latter that my original comments were made.
 
gunnergundog said:
Am happy to concede that rules are rules and agree totally.

There appears however to be a discussion on two levels in this thread (in my opinion). The first is re the rules. The second is re the welfare of the horse. It was concerning the latter that my original comments were made.
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Same here.

Tiddlypom said:
I sure as heck wish that my 11yo hadn't being doing as much at 3 as it now seems that she was :(.
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And conversely, there are just as many who did the same amount as yours as a three year old and are totally fine.

I can’t bring myself to get worked up over a three year old doing four minutes of flatwork.
 
SpringArising said:
And conversely, there are just as many who did the same amount as yours as a three year old and are totally fine.

I can’t bring myself to get worked up over a three year old doing four minutes of flatwork.
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Fine, though I bet that the knackered ones will outnumber the ok ones.

*makes note never to purchase horse that SA has had from a youngster*
 
SpringArising said:
I can’t bring myself to get worked up over a three year old doing four minutes of flatwork.
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It's not the four minutes in the arena that is the problem - it's what goes before. With the people I alluded to earlier the horse will be under saddle a handful of short times. It is however the MAJORITY of individuals that produce such horses that cause the problems - drilling repeatedly for long periods of time with no feeling whatsoever.

There is a BIG difference.
 
gunnergundog said:
It's not the four minutes in the arena that is the problem - it's what goes before. With the people I alluded to earlier the horse will be under saddle a handful of short times. It is however the MAJORITY of individuals that produce such horses that cause the problems - drilling repeatedly for long periods of time with no feeling whatsoever.

There is a BIG difference.
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Well yes, but that’s also a BIG assumption about what the owner of the pony does.

Like I said before, for all we know it’s ridden once a week, if that, and this is it’s first walk and trot test. Hardly drilling it to the ground.

If the OP had come on here and said rider is thirteen stone, pony is 12.2 and they’re entered into the 2’9 class, that would be a little different.
 
SpringArising said:
Well yes, but that’s also a BIG assumption about what the owner of the pony does.

Like I said before, for all we know it’s ridden once a week, if that, and this is it’s first walk and trot test. Hardly drilling it to the ground.

If the OP had come on here and said rider is thirteen stone, pony is 12.2 and they’re entered into the 2’9 class, that would be a little different.
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We can only make assumptions about how much work the pony does, because we haven't been told. We can assume that it has been ridden once per week for a couple of months after being backed, or that it has been endlessly drilled until it can do the test in its sleep, or we can assume something in between. We simply don't know. Although tbh, I guess that it has done more than a bit, if the owner is intent on breaking the comp rules - it tends to be very single-minded (ruthless) people who do that.
I know how much our two younger horses have grown since their 4th birthdays, I certainly wouldn't want either of them to have been lunged as 3 yr olds, goodness knows where their joints would be now!
 
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