4 horses killed at Aintree..............

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pastie2

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Dont get me wrong I am a racing fan through and through but just a thought, do you think that the good ground and the speed that goes with it is tantamount to these fatalities? It was not a nice sight at Valentines today with 2 horses stone dead on the otherside. I remember when Red Marauder won in 2001 with ground soft to almost unraceable not many horses had fatale accidents throughoutthe meeting. Your thoughts would be appriciated.
 
Speed probably was the main cause but it was I think just bad luck that 2 died simultaneously at Valentine's. I was surprised that the BBC replayed that fence afterwards though. I love NH racing but there is no getting away from the fact horses do die for the sport and not just at high profile meetings like Aintree.
 
its so very sad! fences just seem so big and the rotational fall of the 2 at vals shows just how big these fences are and how fast these horse come to them!!!
 
a brave little mare i took to Devon and Exeter racecourse broke her neck trying to jump a fence and a loose horse at the same time-nearly broke my heart, but it happens unfortunately.
 
Mabel98 said:
Speed probably was the main cause but it was I think just bad luck that 2 died simultaneously at Valentine's. I was surprised that the BBC replayed that fence afterwards though. I love NH racing but there is no getting away from the fact horses do die for the sport and not just at high profile meetings like Aintree.
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I was also supprised to see that again on the replay, but that is racing I suppose. I have been envolved in racing most of my life but I just can not over the shock of seeing a horse die. I have lost a horse point-to-pointing and it will stay with me forever, that was on good ground too.
 
Barbaric, I cant bear it. It is the trainers and jockey's choice to do what they do, its not the horses...

I own an ex hurdler and thank god she came out of the game ok bar a few vices, but i am sure she much prefers her life now, her behaviour definatly implies that she does.
 
HumBugsey said:
What race was it? What happened? I just had a scout around and can't find any referance to it on BBC or aintree's site.
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It was in the Topham over the National fences. I doubt the press will want to draw attention to it for obvious reasons
 
And how many have horses have died on the roads this week alone? If only that got half as much coverage...
 
Tinkerbee said:
And how many have horses have died on the roads this week alone? If only that got half as much coverage...
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Oh yes everything is relative, I understand that. It is just that this is a main event and on camera for all to see. I have never lost a horse on the road, thank god, but I have lost one on the racecourse.
 
Let's hope this doesn't become a hysterical "let's ban racing" thread. Whilst it's very sad indeed that horses have died, they have died doing a sport they love, we need to put it into perspective - just look at the 2 horses and the poor lorry driver killed on the A40, lots of horses have been killed hacking out - no one suggests banning hacking, and horses can die from accidents in the field.
 
it is a very sad that these two horses died and it does upset me but if there was no NH these horses would of never been bred in the first place.
Also horse will not do as we all know something they dont want to do, at least they died doing something they enjoyed compared to some that die of cruelty or starvation
 
moses06 said:
Let's hope this doesn't become a hysterical "let's ban racing" thread. Whilst it's very sad indeed that horses have died, they have died doing a sport they love, we need to put it into perspective - just look at the 2 horses and the poor lorry driver killed on the A40, lots of horses have been killed hacking out - no one suggests banning hacking, and horses can die from accidents in the field.
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I can assure you that it is not a banning racing post, I am a racing fan. I was just asking a question thatwould hopefully be answered by racing people.
 
so let me throw this into the pot - I also enjoy NH racing, but... at Aintree, horses are always killed - not a one off, not a possibility, but always in some of the races during the meeting. I did try to look at figures for the aintree meeting say versus Cheltenham but couldn't find anything. So not a bunny hopper saying to ban, but could these track be made safer - and by this I mean tougher criteria before being allowed to race? Can't remember the name of the horse who was stunning all the way round, then fell at fence 17 - but he did have a record with F in it. I know that the NH fences have been made "easier" - but has the safety record improved at all? My great aunt and uncle used to breed and race NH horses in a small way years ago and were heavily into NH racing but would never allow one of their horses to run in the national. Thoughts please!
 
I watched a horse I know well do a treble somersalt in the foxhunters (Thurs) and thought the worst......fortunately it lives to fight another day. It is so difficult, every time one of my pointers (with son aboard - so double stress......) heads off I wonder why I am doing it - but these lovely horses are going out doing what they are bred to do, what they are good at, death on the racecourse ( on the rare occasion that it happens - and I am sure that the stats would show it is about 1-100+) is quick, and painless, with all experts lined up to help. The horse I mentioned earlier that ran in the foxhunters was not allowed to leave Aintree until 7pm, when the vet was happy that it was OK to travel...
Stands of Gold died today in the field, just went to sleep in the sun (not to wake up). He won the Hennassy and was leading the National Field when came down at Beechers in 1980 something......This was an old campaigner who had a lovely retirement.

Going back o losing horses on the racecourse - I know I will be gutted when it happens to me......but I would also hope that I recognise for the majority of TB's it is death or glory......
 
pastie2 said:
I can assure you that it is not a banning racing post, I am a racing fan. I was just asking a question thatwould hopefully be answered by racing people.
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I wasn't aiming anything at you - I just posted my view on the subject, because sooner or later the fluffies will be on here arguing that the sport should be banned. I wasn't aware non racing people were not allowed to answer.:confused:
 
Can you remember the national outcry when it was considered the great Desert Orchid run in the Grand National, it was likened to a Rolls Royce running in a banger race. The trouble is with these races is there are far too many horses going too fast over too many jumps and that combination is always going to end in tears.

The Chairman of the company I work for has horses in training with a top trainer in this country and the last discussion I had with him was in the midst of Cheltenham when again there was a number of fatalities he told me that it is unbearable as an owner when you lose a horse on the track, his died of a heart attack when it went over the finish line. I just couldnt do it I couldnt let my horse go not knowing if it would come back ok.
 
belle31 said:
Can you remember the national outcry when it was considered the great Desert Orchid run in the Grand National, it was likened to a Rolls Royce running in a banger race. The trouble is with these races is there are far too many horses going too fast over too many jumps and that combination is always going to end in tears.

The Chairman of the company I work for has horses in training with a top trainer in this country and the last discussion I had with him was in the midst of Cheltenham when again there was a number of fatalities he told me that it is unbearable as an owner when you lose a horse on the track, his died of a heart attack when it went over the finish line. I just couldnt do it I couldnt let my horse go not knowing if it would come back ok.
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It could as easily be kicked in the field? Does that mean that you would never turn a horse out?
 
Pastie2 in reference to your question yes the ground has a big part to play in fatalities at Cheltenham or Aintree. Even the top class horses can get killed, and not just the one's making up the numbers. Schindlers Hunt was one such horse today, very tragic. It was one of those things though. I think over the national fences it is a combination of the ground, excitement and the jockeys trying to get a good position and into a rhythm. I remember the 2001 GN though as I backed the winner and yes I agree although there were falls I think the field went steadier due to ground as that trip seems like even more when the ground is testing as feet sinking into the ground makes the jumps that bit taller. The extra effort needed to jump fences in soft ground can be more taxing on a horse than if jumping cleanly on better ground. Also if the horses fell on soft they would have a cushioned landing. Not so when the ground is good or faster. The faster the ground the faster then tend to jump because the ground is not holding or gluey they bounce off it.
I actually think that by making the fences easier in the National which they have done in recent years has contributed to more casualties because the horses don't give the fences the respect any more. While I welcomed the changes to the entries in which horses of a certain rating were not allowed to run I don't think the changes to the fences have made a good improvement. Also we are seeing less and less of the good old fashioned chasing types these days as more and more speedier and smaller flat bred types become the trend in racing. Years ago this cropped up when owners seemingly wanted horses that were good as hurdlers but the n wanted them to excel over fences as well. I think long gone are the days of what we used to call 'store' horses. Put them in a field and allow to grow and mature and then race. No, more and more owners want the equivalent of flat racing 2 year olds over jumps. Patience is a virtue but sadly it is one that is not being used much in jump racing these days.
I think that is also maybe affecting the jumping results over the bigger fences. I know there have been past winners of the national that have been pony size by chasing standards, but I do think that those with more height and substance would have an easier task of getting from A to B over the National course.
But yeah, ground for me is the main factor. The faster the ground the keener the horses want to run as the jockeys push them harder to go the pace and keep up than when the ground is softer and they need to keep some energy up their sleeve.
I don't think we will see a record time tomorrow if the course is going to be watered so I doubt the record set by Mr Frisk will be broken ( think that is still the record, can't remember off hand now and it is late lol). But I think we will see a fairly fast time as once again we have some 2 and 2 and a half milers in the race, not to mention a couple of good front runners of the likes of Eric's Charm and Irish Raptor ( is it?) who are sure to tank along if nothing else does. I just hope that horses and jockeys return safe and sound but judging by today and yesterday and the pace they have been going then I do have a lot of fears for the runners and riders.
As for the other question by someone else about a F in their previous form I take that with a pinch of salt as the fact that a horse has fallen means nothing. Now if the horse had FFF or more before this race then I would be worried and horse should not run as clearly it has a problem unless the form reading suggests it has been unlucky. I do think that horses out of form should not be allowed to run though. Perhaps only allow a horse to run in the race if it finished in the frame on its previous start unless the horse fell, ur or was bd etc.
 
The ground is drying soo quickly atm...yes it may be good ground but sadly over the national fences good ground is too quick,the jockeys all push for a position and probably push on more because of good ground:confused:,the horses cannot afford to make mistakes over those fences:(,the softer the ground the better for this race!
 
Going back o losing horses on the racecourse - I know I will be gutted when it happens to me......but I would also hope that I recognise for the majority of TB's it is death or glory......



:confused:

I dont think horses have any concept of death or glory. Man, on the other hand, does.

But the glory is not for the horse that dies but for the owner, trainer and jockey that wins, the bookies who make millions and the punters who may make a few squid and have a good day out.

I am not against racing btw. Just need to be realistic about the real winners.
 
Mabel98 said:
Speed probably was the main cause but it was I think just bad luck that 2 died simultaneously at Valentine's. I was surprised that the BBC replayed that fence afterwards though. I love NH racing but there is no getting away from the fact horses do die for the sport and not just at high profile meetings like Aintree.
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I read on the news last week that the BEEB were being critiscised in previous years for gliding over the fact that horses had died during a particular race and ignoring the details of the animals who had died. Seems they may have taken that onboard who knows?

When I was a young girl they used to replay jumps and falls in the National as part of the race review and immediately afterwards the horses who died were named.

The public needs to decide whether the media can or can't?
 
I refuse to watch it or bet on it. Horses die every year and i don't want to see that. It shouldn't still be happening year in year out. As someone above said, too many horses going too fast over high fences. It's asking for trouble and that's what it gets. I am also sick of people saying things like 'ohh my horse fell right at the end and had to be shot'

Yeah bad luck on you for losing your bet.

I don't think it should be banned. I think it needs a serious look at how they run it and how many horses run at once.

ETS: there is a lot more to dislike about the racing industry than this one race though. Or even just the actual races as a whole. It is not an area of the equestrian world which i wish to support.
 
The thing I dislike most about the racing industry is the wastage of horses as regards breeding and cast offs who are neither fast enough, will never make the grade and unwanted yearlings who go straight to slaughter.

What do we want the racing industry to do? It won't stop, the horses have a job and most of them seem to love that job.

So instead of critics, answers please?
 
dressedkez said:
It could as easily be kicked in the field? Does that mean that you would never turn a horse out?
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That would be a tragic accident, putting 40 horses in a race on good fast ground over massive fences, it is ineviatable that half of them will fall, that is no accident!
 
In answer to OPs question, in H&H mag this week the either the racecourse manager or the groundsman (can't remember which) is quoted as saying that they never let the track get faster than good, so they are clearly aiming to keep the horses from travelling flat out. They also repair the track with 1tonne of soil for every horse than runs (if I remember correctly) thus making it as safe as possible for each race.

The fences have been modified over the years, and there have been far fewer fatalities as a result. I did think the course vet should have kept his mouth shut though when he said that there aren't so many nowadays - tempting fate or what?:confused:

It always amazes me that people run mediocre horses (albeit eligible ones) simply for the kudos of having a National runner.

So in short I think the race is a lot safer than it used to be, but although I enjoy my racing, if I had a horse of National calibre there is no way I would let it run in that race:(
 
Slightly deviating from the topic here...
Cazee- for the record, the concept of "stores" still very much exists. Even moreso in Ireland. the only thing that has changed is that buyers from these 3/4yo racehorse sales are now looking at 4yos ready to start training therefore over the past 1-2yrs many consignors have added breaking in to the prep phase. So many of these young NH horses are now broken at 3-4years (just as those who will not have gone through the sales will hae been) - so wheres the problem? I have a 4yo NH horse who is currently being broken in preparation for the sales in June. He will have been introduced to the gallops by the time he goes to sale but not worked. I wasnt going to break him before the sales but was advised its now "wanted" by trainers - especially for 4yos. The horse could potentially be ready to run next spring.
In recent years trainers like PN have started sending horses to ireland to start out in Pt2pts - these are 4 and 5yo horses who will, yes, run over solid fences - but this has been the norm for 50yrs+ its just unusual for a top NH trainer to have dcided that its the best place to actively source many of his future young stars fom the pointing circuit. though yes most trainers have at least one former pointer in their yard. Does having pointed at 4/5yrs negatively effect these horses? Doubtful - look at Denman, One man, Florida Pearl, Hegehunter, Best Mate.
The horses who hurdle at 3 (and they are very very much in the minority, there is only 1 top race for those sorts and they are 4yos by then- March) come mostly from flat racing yards - look up their records and see - as those are the sort of horses who are most suited to fast hurdles races. France is a different story, but they have raced 3yos over hurdles for years.
 
Thank you all for your interesting and informative replies! Going back to Glenrubys post, I think Pointing in Ireland is a shop window and a good testing ground for future NH horses as opposed to pointing in the British Isles, where horses are not up to NH standard or have been and are having an easier life. I am prepared to be knocked on that! Going back a few years when I was envolved in racing, they were stronger, had more bone and slower to mature than now, we had stallions such as Deep Run, Celtic Cone, Vulgan and Spartan General to name just a few. I just wonder if horses bred like this would stand a chance against the finer faster horses of nowadays. Speed kills and the Aintree fences have changed a great deal, they are more inviting and horses are taking flyers at them, before they had to get in closer and almost show jump them. Unfortunately the landing side is still unforgiving. As for French breds, yes they are good and fasionable, but in my oppinion dont last. It is a throwaway society that we live in.
 
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