4 x 4 drivers (especially Shoguns), advice please .....

[TheoryX1]

I sat and read the thread regarding the H&H article and the intersting comments by ROG with interest. Now, would anybody like to comment upon this, because I quite frankly found a bit distrubing regarding 4 x 4s.

I have owned my Mitsubishi Shogun SWB 3.2 DID Elegance since it was brand new, which is just over 4 years ago. I like Shoguns, its my second one and they have always towed my horses with ease. To give you some background I tow a IW 510, and usually only have one horse at any one time in it. My horse is a 14.3hh MW cob who weighs about 460 kg or thereabouts (weighttape), and a 15.1hh WB/TB who weights about 500 KG (weighttape again). Firstly, I am not inviting comment on the weights of my horses, as I know the weights are only approximate, but they wont be massively far out and neither of them is overweight. I havent had many issues with my car apart from trouble recently with it losing a bit of power going up hills, and this didnt matter whether I was towing or not.

I had my car serviced and MOTd las month and to be fair it did have a few things wrong with it. I used my business partner's son in law to do it, as he has a garage, but he is not a main Mitsubisihi dealer. Now he had to buy a very expensive main dealer part and took my car to the dealership I had bought it from. The guy in parts who dealt with the car remembered me and my vehicle oddly enough. Now for some reason, one thing after another was found wrong with my car and more main dealer parts were purchased. Apparently the reason why my car was going wrong was A SHOGUN IS NOT DESIGNED TO TOW THE WEIGHTS I WAS TOWING!!!!! This information was given to my mechanic by the main dealer's staff. I have to be honest, I was pretty incredulous as the reason I bought a Shogun was that it was a fairly powerful car, plus the salesman who sold it to me, had sold me my last car, had assured me that it was in order to do it.

I will add I do tow fairly regularily, dont overload my trailer as apart from horse, haynet plus breach bar, all I keep in it while towing is is a pooper scooper and a couple of empty buckets, which are tied up securely at the front. I do drive sensibly, as have been towing for a number of years and have my trailer serviced annually.

I have to admit to feeling rather fed up - I havent had any issues towing with either of my Shoguns, and know loads of other people who used them to tow much heavier weights (bigger horses). I would add I dont travel my two together as our mare only travels alone, crosse tied with a breach bar to front and rear. My cob doesnt go partying much these days and if he does, he goes alone. Has anyone else heard about this - I was assured I could tow up to 3.8 tonnes, and was shown some technical information at the time to this effect.

Sorry its a bit long, but I do have some home made chicken jalfreizi and some Tesco rose going begging, and might even find some choclolate ice cream as well.

 

[Jesstickle]

I thought the most you could tow with a B vehicle in the UK was 3.5 tonnes?

Not massively relevant but just for my own sake thought I'd ask.

Sounds like tosh to me. What has actually been going wrong with it. Main dealers are idiots. Did a mechanic say this or just some wally on the front desk?

If it wasn't designed for that weight why would Mitsi rate it at that weight?

 

[ROG]

If you look at the right hand column in THIS LIST I reckon it is either 2800 or 3300 but whichever of those it is your trailer with TWO LARGE horses is not going to be anywhere near the lower of those

 

[ROG]

I thought the most you could tow with a B vehicle in the UK was 3.5 tonnes?

Not massively relevant but just for my own sake thought I'd ask.

A B category can tow muuch more than that legally but it must be designed to do so and any trailer over 3500 must have something like air brakes

Mini artics come to mind

 

[Jesstickle]

A B category can tow muuch more than that legally but it must be designed to do so and any trailer over 3500 must have something like air brakes

Mini artics come to mind

Ahh I see. So it's about how you brake it or something. Because every car I've ever looked at has only had a braked weight of 3500kg I assumed it was just limited there. Obviously more complicated than that!

 

[TheoryX1]

Apologies, 3.8 is a typo - it is 3.5.

My mechanic (who is not a numpty) dealt with somebody who worked on servicing the vehicle. The fault was fairly extensive and concerned the onboard computer, plus some kind of filter which had got clogged up (EDR or something like that), plus every dam thing in the book. It was the thing that was clogged up which caused it to lose power intermittently. My mechanic had to do a few runs to the main dealer.

I dont even tow two large horses, but one average sized one at any time. Personally I thought it was tosh as well, but it made me think.

 

[rockysmum]

Ahh I see. So it's about how you brake it or something. Because every car I've ever looked at has only had a braked weight of 3500kg I assumed it was just limited there. Obviously more complicated than that!

I guess its because air brakes work the other way round to normal brakes. If they fail they come on instead of normal brakes which dont work.

Those american trailers must weight a fair bit, wonder if they have air brakes. Always fancied one of those but assumed it wouldn't be legal in this country.

 

[Jesstickle]

Any chance they're saying it to make sure you don't haul their asses over the coals as so much is wrong with a 4yo car they sold you?

What does your mechanic reckon?

 

[FabulousFlynn'sMum]

I have a SWB 3.2 DiD Equippe that ive had from new (its an 04 plate), and have regularly towed (until had to upgrade to a wagon cos of a new horses loading issues....long story!), an IW 510 with a 17.2 HW ID and a 16.1 cob/trotter in it with no adverse effects!. Just to add, its also been lent to a friend to tow also and has in numerous summers, towed said trailer bringing in 100+ small bales of hay from the field to the barn! My shogun is still going strong which is a good job, cos id never be able to afford another one! (Lucky financial circumstances back in 2004!) xx

 

[now_loves_mares]

I tow with a Disco so can't comment personally (though my 20 year disco doesn't break down very often ). But my hay dealer delivers to mine towing 10 bales of haylage with a shogun. And he does quite a bit of that too.

I reckon that's pretty heavy??? I think the guy was talking cr@p.

 

[Bubbles]

In my experience garages and dealerships know s*d all about towing weights, and are happy to provide totally incorrect advice. Good luck sorting the car

 

[skye_and_i]

The american stuff tends to have an electronic braking system that is legal over here and is far more effective than conventional overun brakes found on most trailers upto 3.5ton

 

[becca1305]

I have a shogun 2.5L. Before we invested in horsebox it towed a 510 with 2 500kg/550kg horses in it legally & with no difficulty. In one of the handbook thingymaggies that came with the car it said exact towing weights etc and like ROG said, we were well within them. Mines been fairly tested being older than yours and having towed our horse trailer for 5 years, often doing a 200mile round trip at wknds when horse and I were at college (as well as being rather hammered as a teenagers car ) and nothing has ever gone wrong with it...*frantically touches wood*. Im by no means a mechanic but it doesnt make sense to me that what you are towing would cause these issues since you must be very adequately within their listed weight limits. Hopefully they will find the underlying cause & fix the problem effectively!

 

[perfect11s]

Apologies, 3.8 is a typo - it is 3.5.

My mechanic (who is not a numpty) dealt with somebody who worked on servicing the vehicle. The fault was fairly extensive and concerned the onboard computer, plus some kind of filter which had got clogged up (EDR or something like that), plus every dam thing in the book. It was the thing that was clogged up which caused it to lose power intermittently. My mechanic had to do a few runs to the main dealer.

I dont even tow two large horses, but one average sized one at any time. Personally I thought it was tosh as well, but it made me think.

Yes you are being given smelly stuff of a bovine nature!!! this is a newish car!! due to emission laws the modern diesels have a lot of complicated and unreliable add ons to clean up the exhaust like EGR valves and DPFs, both can clog up and cause warning lights and or loss of power
often its short journeys and gentle driving that causes the problem not motorway or towing which gets everything hot and burns off the soot, main dealers are very good at fixing things by fitting new parts until they "cure" the problem, not bad if its warrenty but ouch if you have to write a check , they plug them in to a computer and it gives a fault code it then depends on how good or useless the tech is at interperating the data as to how much it will cost.. independent diesel specialists are often best and if it is the EGR /DPF there are people who can remove them and remap the vehicles computer, it permanty cures the problem and improves the performance and economy....

 

[Fourlegsgood]

Yes you are being given smelly stuff of a bovine nature!!! this is a newish car!! due to emission laws the modern diesels have a lot of complicated and unreliable add ons to clean up the exhaust like EGR valves and DPFs, both can clog up and cause warning lights and or loss of power
often its short journeys and gentle driving that causes the problem not motorway or towing which gets everything hot and burns off the soot, main dealers are very good at fixing things by fitting new parts until they "cure" the problem, not bad if its warrenty but ouch if you have to write a check , they plug them in to a computer and it gives a fault code it then depends on how good or useless the tech is at interperating the data as to how much it will cost.. independent diesel specialists are often best and if it is the EGR /DPF there are people who can remove them and remap the vehicles computer, it permanty cures the problem and improves the performance and economy....

Yep, agree about the EGR valve. This is a useless piece of junk that gets the engine below an emission threshold but in reality just clogs up. I have left mine in place but just disconnected the vacuum pipe connected to it. Unfortunately the useless piece of junk (sorry, EGR valve) doesn't clear itself out by doing a long journey because it is on the inlet side of the engine. They are expensive to replace but will just clog up again. Many kits are available to replace them with a straight bit of pipe but the Engine Management warning light will come on in most cars (but not all). The engine needs remapping to stop the light coming on but will work fine even without the remapping.

 

[TheoryX1]

Yes you are being given smelly stuff of a bovine nature!!! this is a newish car!! due to emission laws the modern diesels have a lot of complicated and unreliable add ons to clean up the exhaust like EGR valves and DPFs, both can clog up and cause warning lights and or loss of power
often its short journeys and gentle driving that causes the problem not motorway or towing which gets everything hot and burns off the soot, main dealers are very good at fixing things by fitting new parts until they "cure" the problem, not bad if its warrenty but ouch if you have to write a check , they plug them in to a computer and it gives a fault code it then depends on how good or useless the tech is at interperating the data as to how much it will cost.. independent diesel specialists are often best and if it is the EGR /DPF there are people who can remove them and remap the vehicles computer, it permanty cures the problem and improves the performance and economy....

Thats it - EGR valve and DPF. I am not a mechanic, nor is my knowledge of cars good. I also use my car as my company car and do a lot of stop start driving, as have to travel through my home time to get to work, which is the other side of the city, in the country, so it gets a lot of that type of driving. Wish I had known this, I really dont want to say how much the whole thing cost, and all I can say is that thank god having a fully expensed company car is part of my job package (although I get hamnered for tax .........).

Have been told to go out and regularily give it a blast. Will get my mechanic to take it to an independent diesel specialist next time, but I have a funny feeling it will be going in the next year or so anyway.

 

[Fourlegsgood]

The other beast that doesn't like lots of short journeys is a horsebox. Mine gets used every week but the local venue is only 20 mins away. One week it was firing on 5 out of 6 cyls and then cutting out at junctions. I put 6 bottles of diesel fuel treatment in the tank and that cleaned the system out and it is now purring.

Every now and then I use a similar treatment for my diesel car. It's not the regular additive but something else that you get from halfords etc to clean the fuel system. Well worth doing if you do a lot of short journeys.

 

[carmenlucy123]

I have a old 51 plate swb 3.2 and I thought it could easily tug 3 tonnes I have towed a tb and welsh before probably both 500/600 so say 1.2 tonnes with trailer 2.2 I never worry about over loading as I'd need two shires!!!

What went wrong on it? I know the diff goes on them along with the clutch this happened to me but I bought a indestructible diff to go back in so it won't happen again same thing happened to my friend luckily by boyf did all the work so my bill was half hers!

 

[the Financier]

The dealer is talking carp, find a good local independant that knows Shoguns. there is a good shogun forum that answers loots of similar questions,such as cleaning EGR

ROG, is that the same ROG as in flyer