4Cyte or Snake Oil?

[TotalMadgeness]

A few folk I know have tried 4Cyte for their horses who have joint issues and had excellent results so I googled it (because my too have joint issues too). Anyway I found a research paper where they got 16 young healthy horses, surgically induced arthritis in them, then treated them with 4Cyte - finally the horses were put to sleep to do a postmortem. That actually stopped me in my tracks. Maybe I'm just a wimp but isn't that going a bit far for a supplement?!

 

[Sossigpoker]

That sounds horrific !!

 

[Barton Bounty]

I dont like the sound of that, poor things ??‍

 

[PapaverFollis]

I guess that's how you test if something actually works! But yeah. And you'd probably have to use a lot more horses for statistical significance too...

There's reasons some stuff about whether things actually work or not remains a bit wooly... not just because they don't work but companies still want to make money! (Although that is probably a very big reason)

I've found Riaflex really good for the spaniel's arthritis... if I was to try a horse joint supplement that would be where I'd start.

 

[MuddyMonster]

Poor horses

I'll stick with my anecdotal evidence that Premier Flex HA is working!

 

[ihatework]

A few folk I know have tried 4Cyte for their horses who have joint issues and had excellent results so I googled it (because my too have joint issues too). Anyway I found a research paper where they got 16 young healthy horses, surgically induced arthritis in them, then treated them with 4Cyte - finally the horses were put to sleep to do a postmortem. That actually stopped me in my tracks. Maybe I'm just a wimp but isn't that going a bit far for a supplement?!

Do you have a link to the research?
I’m surprised that would get through an ethics committee, unless the horses weren’t healthy (but had healthy joints) and were planned to be pts for other reasons. But even then it seems suspicious.

 

[TotalMadgeness]

Do you have a link to the research?
I’m surprised that would get through an ethics committee, unless the horses weren’t healthy (but had healthy joints) and were planned to be pts for other reasons. But even then it seems suspicious.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fvets.2022.858391/full

 

[ihatework]

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fvets.2022.858391/full

Thanks.
Mixed feelings.
On one hand, it’s not common to have research with some value on nutraceuticals, so credit where it’s due.
I did a quick search on the protocol and ethics committee hoping to bring up some sort of decision making evaluation but couldn’t find anything obvious.
I can only assume they selected the horses from a kill pen to justify the ethics of it.

 

[PapaverFollis]

I think it is quite common practice in veterinary research science is it not? To induce the disease, try to cure it, then cull for dissection.

(I switched from a zoology degree to a plant sciences degree many years ago after a particular lab experiment just got to me. The research above only surprises me in that it is actual rigorous testing of a nutraceutical.)

 

[ihatework]

I think it is quite common practice in veterinary research science is it not? To induce the disease, try to cure it, then cull for dissection.

(I switched from a zoology degree to a plant sciences degree many years ago after a particular lab experiment just got to me. The research above only surprises me in that it is actual rigorous testing of a nutraceutical.)

Indeed it is. But animal models aren’t usually horses and disease models aren’t usually induced for neutraceuticals. Which is why it’s an interesting one ethically

 

[poiuytrewq]

I don’t know how I feel about that but a bit of me wonders how we can make and be sure some of these things work with out sacrifice.
I realise that may sound really a callous and uncaring but a product that’s for horses needs testing on horses.
Not all horses have the lovely lives ours do and it’s us who wants, buys and supports the companies to do this work to help our horses.

I have a friend who’s used this as a last resort now has a riding horse back.