4x4 Shopping help!

[Kat]

We bought a Navara and LOVE it. We tow a bateson deauville with a 16hh horse in and you barely know it is there. It is a ****** to park, but we manage, just avoid tight multi storey car parks, we reverse it into a fairly tight spot on the drive each evening so it can't be that bad. The part time 4x4 helps keep fuel costs down. The fact it is a pick up is great for moving hay and bedding etc as it is easy to load and easy to keep clean in the back. You can then keep the cab clean and fresh.

Definitely look at the navara, they are much less agricultural than the L200 and have far more luxuries. Once we had driven both there was no contest.

Best of all a pick up counts as a van for tax so is cheaper to tax than a 4x4.

 

[alainax]

Ive seen a few Rav4'sw that I like the look of, and the Ifor Williams trailer seems to be my fav.
I was hoping if Rog or some other real clever person can have a look over my figures and see if I made a mistake?

Toyota Rav 4 (4X4) with these specifications/dimensions
Unladen/kerb = 1425
GVW = 1785
Max towing weight = 1500
Max trailer plated MAM = 1425 kgs

Im guessing a differnt model, for the one im looking at it says -

Unladen/kerb weight =1520
GVW=2070
Max towing weight=1500

So there for...
Max trailer plated MAM=1520.... however it cant tow that, so max trailer weight would have to be 1500?


Ifor williams has a gross weight of 1600, so it would need down plated to 1500kg?

then...

Deduct trailer unladen weight from max trailer plated weight to get maximum load/horse weight for the trailer

Trailer weighs 767kg, trailer now plated to 1500, so ... max horse weight of 733kg?

Example:- Nissan (1450) minus IFOR HB403 (770 appx) = load/horse 680 kgs

Oh crap now im lost nissan 1450....

ah ok , that was from these stats-

Nissan X trail (4X4) with these specifications/dimensions
Unladen/kerb = 1515
GVW = 2050
Towing = 2000
Max trailer plated MAM = 1450 kgs

so the 1450 came from the nissans "max trailer plated MAM"

So the rav4 i was looking at has the max trailer plated MAM of 1500kg...
which loops back to the holding a horse of 733kgs... got it.









Now then... Gov says -

Licences held from 1 January 1997

check

If you passed your driving test after 1 January 1997 and have an ordinary category B (car) licence, you can drive either:

yup

a vehicle up to 3.5 tonnes or 3,500 kilograms (kg) Maximum Authorised Mass (MAM) towing a trailer of up to 750kg MAM (with a combined weight of up to 4,250kg( in total)

not doing that...

a trailer over 750kg MAM as long as it is no more than the unladen or ‘kerb’ weight of the towing vehicle

So trailer is over 750kg mam, but at 1500kg plated it doesnt weigh more than the kerb weight of the towing vehicle @ 1520kgs.

(with a combined weight of up to 3,500kg in total)

Now the combined weight part, lets say the trailer is a full up 767kg + 733kg horse (hes no where near that big! ) @ 1500kgs, and the car is alone 1520kgs.
That means thier combined weight 3020kg. Thus leaving me 480 kilos for me plus stuff?



Did that make sense?

 

[Trishh]

Another vote for the Nissan navara, the newer model (2006 onwards) if you can afford it. I've had mine for 4 years and never had a problem, the best car I've ever had! Get a test drive!

 

[Caol Ila]

Far too much math there for me, Alaina, but at any rate, I would not tow a horse with a vehicle with as short a wheelbase as the RAV4. I know people in the UK tow with all sorts of crazy things (and it might be perfectly safe), but I was taught in the Land of Mahoosive Trucks to not haul with anything with a shorter wheelbase than a Ford Explorer, as to do so destabilizes the whole system.

 

[alainax]

Far too much math there for me, Alaina, but at any rate, I would not tow a horse with a vehicle with as short a wheelbase as the RAV4. I know people in the UK tow with all sorts of crazy things (and it might be perfectly safe), but I was taught in the Land of Mahoosive Trucks to not haul with anything with a shorter wheelbase than a Ford Explorer, as to do so destabilizes the whole system.

heh sorry, that was my backwards way of workign things out, over complicating it ...


Yeah I know what you mean... I'd so love a big truck. I have seem some really nice ones too, my problem is my budget For the nice big ones they are usually older than my current car or have more miles on...

Another vote for the Nissan navara, the newer model (2006 onwards) if you can afford it. I've had mine for 4 years and never had a problem, the best car I've ever had! Get a test drive!

I'd love to be able to afford one. I cant seem to find one in half decent condition for the money I can get though



Thanks for all the suggestions and food for thought so far

 

[ROG]

Ive seen a few Rav4'sw that I like the look of, and the Ifor Williams trailer seems to be my fav.
I was hoping if Rog or some other real clever person can have a look over my figures and see if I made a mistake?




Im guessing a differnt model, for the one im looking at it says -

Unladen/kerb weight =1520
GVW=2070
Max towing weight=1500

So there for...
Max trailer plated MAM=1520.... however it cant tow that, so max trailer weight would have to be 1500?


Ifor williams has a gross weight of 1600, so it would need down plated to 1500kg?

then...



Trailer weighs 767kg, trailer now plated to 1500, so ... max horse weight of 733kg?





Oh crap now im lost nissan 1450....

ah ok , that was from these stats-


so the 1450 came from the nissans "max trailer plated MAM"

So the rav4 i was looking at has the max trailer plated MAM of 1500kg...
which loops back to the holding a horse of 733kgs... got it.









Now then... Gov says -


check


yup

not doing that...


So trailer is over 750kg mam, but at 1500kg plated it doesnt weigh more than the kerb weight of the towing vehicle @ 1520kgs.





Now the combined weight part, lets say the trailer is a full up 767kg + 733kg horse (hes no where near that big! ) @ 1500kgs, and the car is alone 1520kgs.
That means thier combined weight 3020kg. Thus leaving me 480 kilos for me plus stuff?



Did that make sense?

For B licence towing ......
With a GVW of 2070 the max trailer plated MAM would be 1430 kgs
Using an IFOR HB401 or 403 downplated from 1600 to 1430 the maximum load would be 660 kgs because the trailer unladen weight is 770
770+660=1430

2070+1430=3500 which is the max combined plated MAM/GVW for B licence towing

1430 is under the kerbweight of 1520 so no probs there

A vehicle has its own maximum Weight (GVW) and a trailer has its own max weight (MAM)

There is no law which states that the plated MAM of a trailer has to be the same or less than the towing capacity

 

[everichred]

I love my l200 warrior.

With 2 ponies and 2 kids to take to shows, loads of room for all the tack, changes, food needed.

It is long, but you soon get used to it.

 

[perfect11s]

I had a Disco for over five years. No power and it liked breaking down in awkward places. The old ones anyway (what you'd get for less than £5k) are pretty useless on the pick up. It was a beast in snow, though. However, if you like a snappy car, I would not recommend one.

My mother had one of the big Mitsubishi 4x4s, called a Montero in the US. Equivalent here is Pajero or Shogun or something like that. It was more underpowered than the Disco.

The car I have now is very quick and responsive for a 4x4. And an automatic as well. The manual version would probably be even quicker. Unlike the Disco, it doesn't give up on life and drop down to 50mph no matter how hard you floor it on that hill on the M74 after the Cairn Lodge junction. I have no idea if it would haul Titan, though. ROG, 2004 Hyundai Sante Fe auto with a 2 liter diesel engine? I didn't get it to haul, as I'm not likely to buy a trailer any time in the near future, so I didn't look into the spec for that. I just got it 'cause I'm from Colorado and couldn't face a 4x4-less world after the Disco died. But for a fun-to-drive 4x4, it's not bad and may be worth looking into if it will haul your horse.

I used to haul my horse with a Ford F-250. Mmmm.....5 liter V8 engine... I loved that truck and dearly miss it, but you won't find one here.

You realise if you buy a pickup, I will stand around at the yard and drool over it. My OH thinks I'm bananas, because every time I see a nice looking pickup, I ogle and say, "Ooooh.... pretty truck!"

Yes american truck is the answer I used to tow a batson ascot with my last truck a 2001 F250 superduty powerstoke with 2 in the trailer think I was about 3 tons under what it was made to tow!!! , just sold the lorry and thinking about another, there is a real nice one for sale in scotland on ebay F350 extended cab diesel with an arctic fox camper on it just need another bateson and about £50k

 

[Caol Ila]

Yes american truck is the answer I used to tow a batson ascot with my last truck a 2001 F250 superduty powerstoke with 2 in the trailer think I was about 3 tons under what it was made to tow!!! , just sold the lorry and thinking about another, there is a real nice one for sale in scotland on ebay F350 extended cab diesel with an arctic fox camper on it just need another bateson and about £50k

Yum, I wish.

When my Disco died, I wanted to get a Hilux or similar pickup, but couldn't even afford a high mileage one with an automatic transmission (I am lame and American and don't know how to drive manual). If I were back in the States, I could pick up (as it were) an old pickup for cheap because there are millions of them, but not the case here. So I made do with a high mileage Santa Fe.

Anyway, it is believed on the other side of the Atlantic that if you are towing a horse trailer with a short wheelbase car, the trailer is at greater risk of jackknifing if the horses move about and the trailer sways. A long vehicle would keep the whole system stable, whereas a short one will fishtail, hence the jacknife. This is what we were told. I guess people here tow with vehicles that seem kind of mindboggling to me, but I guess the trailers themselves are lighter? However, a good pal of mine jacknifed and flipped over on an interstate (motorway) towing with a Ford Explorer and the cause was attributed to the vehicle not being long enough or powerful enough to safely pull the horses.

Our YO, however, tows with that Freelander. Picked up my horse from her previous yard in his rig. When I saw what he towed with, I was a bit like , but the car seemed to manage it easily and he said it was brilliant. They said they used to have Discos but they tended to fall apart, surprise, surprise.

 

[perfect11s]

Yum, I wish.

When my Disco died, I wanted to get a Hilux or similar pickup, but couldn't even afford a high mileage one with an automatic transmission (I am lame and American and don't know how to drive manual). If I were back in the States, I could pick up (as it were) an old pickup for cheap because there are millions of them, but not the case here. So I made do with a high mileage Santa Fe.

Anyway, it is believed on the other side of the Atlantic that if you are towing a horse trailer with a short wheelbase car, the trailer is at greater risk of jackknifing if the horses move about and the trailer sways. A long vehicle would keep the whole system stable, whereas a short one will fishtail, hence the jacknife. This is what we were told. I guess people here tow with vehicles that seem kind of mindboggling to me, but I guess the trailers themselves are lighter? However, a good pal of mine jacknifed and flipped over on an interstate (motorway) towing with a Ford Explorer and the cause was attributed to the vehicle not being long enough or powerful enough to safely pull the horses.

Our YO, however, tows with that Freelander. Picked up my horse from her previous yard in his rig. When I saw what he towed with, I was a bit like , but the car seemed to manage it easily and he said it was brilliant. They said they used to have Discos but they tended to fall apart, surprise, surprise.

Things are different in the States, trailers are heavier and balanced diferently with the vehicle carrying more of the weight even on bumper pulls so they need a bigger longer vehicle to tow them which they have, so you would have say a f150 for a 2 horse bumper pull a f250 for a big bumper pull with dressing room , or 2/3 horse gooseneck with a weekender LQs then f350 up for the bigger multi horse massive living quarter trailers, our trailers are lighter and ballenced so the weight of the trailer and its load isnt carryed by the towing vehicle so a smaller light vehicle can tow it safely , goosenecks havent taken off here I guess because small box trucks are common cheap and easy to convert to horse transporters for people who want living quarters and to carry mulitple horses .. horses for courses as they say

 

[Caol Ila]

Things are different in the States, trailers are heavier and balanced diferently with the vehicle carrying more of the weight even on bumper pulls so they need a bigger longer vehicle to tow them which they have, so you would have say a f150 for a 2 horse bumper pull a f250 for a big bumper pull with dressing room , or 2/3 horse gooseneck with a weekender LQs then f350 up for the bigger multi horse massive living quarter trailers, our trailers are lighter and ballenced so the weight of the trailer and its load isnt carryed by the towing vehicle so a smaller light vehicle can tow it safely , goosenecks havent taken off here I guess because small box trucks are common cheap and easy to convert to horse transporters for people who want living quarters and to carry mulitple horses .. horses for courses as they say

Ah, cool. Didn't know trailers were actually balanced differently. I used to have a two horse slant loading bumper pull with a dressing room. Heavy, steel trailer, 7'2 high, and I pulled it with an F-250. A few years before I moved here, some people were starting to get into "Eurotrailers," smaller and lighter and theoretically towable by a smallish 4x4, but there was some scepticism about this being a good idea.