4yr olds, Am I expecting too muh?

ellie_e

ellie_e

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What are your aims/plans with your now 4yr olds? Are any of you hoping to be out competing? What are they currently doing work wise and what are you feeding them?
Think I may be expecting too much from mine :S
 
Mine is unbacked, still growing like a weed (is currently downhill again) and pootling about his paddock.

ETA - feedwise he has whatever grass is left, ad lib forage in the hayfeeder and two small feeds of chaff with a good vit and min supplement.

EATA - I always use the 'new posts' button, so hadn't realised that this was a show jumping question. Sorry, I should read things more clearly. Mine is destined to be a riding club/fun horse rather than a 'competition horse'.
 
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Mine is now 5 but last year he was broken in feb/March having been pretty much untouched until the previous Oct. I then took him to a Nick gauntlett schooling weekend at end of April. I'd hoped to do BE 4 yo classes with him but his xc just wasn't ready with the amount of work I thought was appropriate for him. But by May time he was doing a decent prelim test and we did a BYEH class in Aug. They are all different but I prefer breaking them a bit later and find they usually catch up.
 
Matafleur said:
Mine is now 5 but last year he was broken in feb/March having been pretty much untouched until the previous Oct. I then took him to a Nick gauntlett schooling weekend at end of April. I'd hoped to do BE 4 yo classes with him but his xc just wasn't ready with the amount of work I thought was appropriate for him. But by May time he was doing a decent prelim test and we did a BYEH class in Aug. They are all different but I prefer breaking them a bit later and find they usually catch up.
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Thanks! Maybe i'm not then! She will be 4 in March, bought her untouched from a field in Novemeber and broke her in, shes since had 2 weeks off and been hacking out, lunging, and a local in hand show. I did pop her over a Xpole this week but not really doing any ridden work in canter, our school is pretty small and she finds it difficult but hoping to get her to some local BS classes in March they have the club stuff so 70cm up which was the aim, then 4yr old classes in the summer.
 
Mines now 5 and did nothing in his 4 year really. If he was rising 4 now I would expect him to start some BN over the next few months. Some disco late summer and be ready for the 4 year old classes the end of the summer and scope sept time
 
Mine is very similar to yours. I got her in November unbroken. She is now undersaddle and hacking in all paces. Schools maybe once per week for 15 mins mostly W&T as school is laso tiny, but a couple of short canters (unless there is another horse there then we barely move!) Plan will be as NBC has listed, but she is very nervous of other horses, so will have to see if this improves before I considering a warm up arena. I have never know a horse so scared of others. Will hack alone and go past anything I ask, but hack with company and she crawls along and won't go within 10ft of the other horse. Currently hacking with only 1 horse from the field next door fingers crossed it will help.
Feed wise Alfa-a, micronised barley, SB, balancer and linseed but not much of each and as much hay as she can eat.
 
Thanks muddy grey and NBC I guess I'm on the right track, this is my first real youngster so have been unsure what to expect from her. I've booked her onto a load of different clinics ranging from flat, pole work and some jumping in late feb. Hopefully will be ready for March. Have you guys planned any time off with yours?
 
Mine just did general schooling, popping and hacking as a 4yo. As a 5yo I did do a couple of byeh classes which were on the back of going to one dressage test and popping round 2 british novices. First time Ive done those with a youngster and a few people thought we were a bit mad not having jumped the height required but due to my horses good attitude it was a calculated risk and all worked out well. I only went to two (one was very high profile) and then backed it off again for the rest of the season to 80-90cm and had our first xc school in the september of being 5yo. I think you know when you get a good one who is game to have a go and its so very tempting to push and carry on. I only really did the byeh classes because it was always something I wanted to do. Im so very proud of her that she did them but at the same time Im glad I backed off straightway afterwards and had things back in our fun zone rather than constantly pushing it.
 
If you plan to keep it sound for many, many years then spend the next year pottering around and definitely not jumping it more than a few trotting poles and a grid every so often.

Hocks have not yet fused and jumping puts a great strain on them as does lateral work. Stick to forward, rhythm and acceptance of the bit until at least 5
 
Tnavas said:
If you plan to keep it sound for many, many years then spend the next year pottering around and definitely not jumping it more than a few trottinHock es and a grid every so often.

Hocks have not yet fused and jumping puts a great strain on them as does lateral work. Stick to forward, rhythm and acceptance of the bit until at least 5
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Hock growth plates are closed at four.
 
Tnavas said:
NO they are not, they finish fusing at 7 along with spine and neck
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I can't find a single scientific study that supports your point of view. Everything I can find, and there are many, says that the hocks are closed by four years old and most of them say well before. Can you point me to where you got your information from please?
 
seejay said:
Yes, thank you, I had already seen that one. It says that everything is sealed by four except the vertebrae and the pelvis. Do you still say that the hocks are not sealed until seven?
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Hock – this joint is “late” for as low down as it is; growth plates on the tibial and fibular tarsals don’t fuse until the animal is 3-3.5 (so the hocks are a known “weak point” –even the 18th-century literature warns against driving young horses in plow or other deep or sticky footing, or jumping them up into a heavy load, for danger of spraining their hocks).
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Have you read your own link, Tnavas?
 
nianya said:
This study (cites a bunch of others across breeds) shows that the growth plates in most breeds are closed by about 4 years old. Including in the hips and spine.

http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1751-0147-49-19.pdf
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Sorry, but in my opinion that is not a SCIENTIFIC paper....it is based on quotes /research from the 40's and 60's. EVEN allowing for the above, that it is based on outmoded research, it still says that the extreme majority of joints are fused by 4.
 
Gunnergundog, you've quoted the same post twice ;)

I presume your first post should refer to Tnavas's opinion-heavy editorial-type article? I do love a nice paper with decent M&Ms and actual results reported in a nice, scientific manner too...
 
JustFindingTheDecorations said:
Gunnergundog, you've quoted the same post twice ;)

I presume your first post should refer to Tnavas's opinion-heavy editorial-type article? I do love a nice paper with decent M&Ms and actual results reported in a nice, scientific manner too...
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Derrr....too much haste.....got it in one...thanks for the translation of my intent! :) Yes, my rather derogatory comments in my first post should have applied to this: http://www.equinestudies.org/ranger_..._2008_pdf1.pdf
 
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JustFindingTheDecorations said:
Have you read your own link, Tnavas?
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Yes I did and can't understand where I got the information as to the later time for hocks. Did you read the whole article - maybe I picked up something from there.

Still don't agree with jumping young horses in competition - especially the young horse series, you see many doing well at 4 & 5 and then they vanish from the jumping scene or end up - like my friend horse - in the paddock recovering from strain damage to the hocks - horse will never be jumping again.

Far more sensible to wait an extra year for the horse to mature structurally.
 
Tnavas said:
Yes I did and can't understand where I got the information as to the later time for hocks. Did you read the whole article - maybe I picked up something from there.
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Yea that must be it. The author must've contradicted herself in her own article. That's far more likely than you mis-remembering or misunderstanding it :)
 
Mine will be 4 in June. I bred him and lightly broke him last summer. He was quite sharp, so we worked him for half an hour every day, mostly walking and some trot, with a little canter. He's by Jumbo, so he's going to be quite well built. He's been growing in the field, turned out from September. I'm not going to touch him again until his withers catch up with his quarters!! Hopefully in March, then just some light work. Nothing major this year though. He's a keeper, so I'm in no rush!!
 
I dont think it is entirely relevant when the growth plates fuse. Once the skeletal system has achieved this state , the growth of muscle and by implication ,the load on the skeletal structure increases massively. The skeletal structure is ,throughout the life of the animal, subject to constant rebuilding in response to the loads applied to it. My strong suspicion and educated guess (because as with so many things ,no one has done the research) is that the actual time of growth plate fusion is irrelevant. What is relevant is the age at which the animal has reached a minimum level in bone resorbtion and reconstruction.
 
Mike007 said:
I dont think it is entirely relevant when the growth plates fuse. Once the skeletal system has achieved this state , the growth of muscle and by implication ,the load on the skeletal structure increases massively. The skeletal structure is ,throughout the life of the animal, subject to constant rebuilding in response to the loads applied to it. My strong suspicion and educated guess (because as with so many things ,no one has done the research) is that the actual time of growth plate fusion is irrelevant. What is relevant is the age at which the animal has reached a minimum level in bone resorbtion and reconstruction.
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Having a guide as to when areas complete their growth is important though. As you point out bones change to accommodate the work load, therefore working a horse before the plates have matured may mean that bone is adversely remodeled.

The Spanish Riding School horses are not broken in until they are 5-6 years old when all their bones have fully matured. Maybe this is why their horses work so well into a grand age.
 
I'm riding a pony that's aiming for byrds and hopefully fei with the right rider. She's working forward into a nice relaxed contact in w/t/c on both reins. We do 1 or 2 sessions of groundwork 1 or 2 sessions in the arena and the rest hacking. She's popped a couple of fences but won't jump too often.

She's going to be a super pony for someone, I wish I could warrant having another.
 
Tnavas said:
Having a guide as to when areas complete their growth is important though. As you point out bones change to accommodate the work load, therefore working a horse before the plates have matured may mean that bone is adversely remodeled.

The Spanish Riding School horses are not broken in until they are 5-6 years old when all their bones have fully matured. Maybe this is why their horses work so well into a grand age.
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I entirely agree. In fact this was rather my point though badly expressed. I was trying to get across that even at growth plate fusion,there is still so much happening developmentwise that things still need to be kept at a gentle level until subsequently the rate of resorbtion and formation falls to a minimum.
 
Bone remodelling fluctuates depending on stress regardless of age. If you want to work a horse, the remodelling will occur when you start working it, and putting stress on the bones, even if it's physically mature. Remodelling is a very good thing - it's not something to avoid.
 
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