5 Stage or 2 Stage? Opinions please

HeresHoping

HeresHoping

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Here we go again.:rolleyes:

I have been offered at a fantastic price an absolutely fantastic horse. I mean really, really super - blows everything I have tried (and had fail) right out of the water. I have developed a bit of an emotional block when trying horses, can't seem to get involved emotionally at all (probably because the ones I like keep failing and I've had a bit of backlash from unhappy dealers which seems to be coming at me from all directions). But this chap blew me away. He blew my unhorsey husband away, too. We are all head over heels in love with him. The two I tried the next day had no chance, even though I tried very hard to keep an open mind.:o

He was sold three months ago and bought back by the producers two weeks ago because the owner was lacking time and felt guilty. When sold he had a 5 stage vetting. I have a copy of the vetting certificate and report to send to my vet. Passed with flying colours despite the fact that he has sarcoids. I guess in that situation they were excluded from the vetting. I have spoken at length with my vet about these, and sent pictures, and she is not overly concerned - currently they aren't in places where they could get rubbed, and are largely the nodular variety. (Please, I am not asking whether to buy a horse with sarcoids, I have explored this and weighed up the consequences).

He is being sold to me for £2.5k (if it were not for the sarcoids, he'd be worth at least three times this). Given that he has passed a 5 stage just three months ago, and that he has sarcoids which are not going to be covered by insurance, would you go for a 5 stage, or just a two stage?

I have been getting horses vetted with a 5 stage because after the heartbreak of the last three years, I wanted an LoU option, and because it was peace of mind. My TB only had a two stage and obviously that didn't pick up a previously fractured pelvis. But then, neither would a 5 stage have done given he was from the field and sound on the day. Someone has told me that if a horse has sarcoids, they aren't going to provide LoU anyway. I am just checking that with my current insurers.

But, WWYD, please?
 
Usually if I was buying a horse from a dealer or somebody I didn't know well I would have a five stage, but as he has recently had (and passed) a five stage then you'll probably be okay with a two stage this time. Will you be able to use the five stage certificate when insuring him?

Good luck and fingers crossed everything goes well, he sounds like a great horse for you.
 
Still 5 stage, yes the sarcoids will get noted but you don't know what else might be picked up that you haven't spotted. Anything could have happened in 3 months especially as he's been out in a different home.
The only benefit to a 2 stage is cost and for what £100-£150 why take the risk? even more so given your previous heart ache.
 
Polos Mum said:
Still 5 stage, yes the sarcoids will get noted but you don't know what else might be picked up that you haven't spotted. Anything could have happened in 3 months especially as he's been out in a different home.
The only benefit to a 2 stage is cost and for what £100-£150 why take the risk? even more so given your previous heart ache.
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this
 
Another vote for 5 stage. You only have their word for why he has been returned!
As for sarcoids I bought my lad with them. Yes insurance excluded them but I have LOU for anything else
 
Hereshoping said:
Thank you. I am grateful.

So, has anyone used these guys: http://fivestagevetting.com/

I know it sounds as though I'm trying to be a cheapskate; I suppose in a way I am as I have spent £1k in failed vet checks and it hurts. I wouldn't compromise on anything, least of all vet quality - I've read enough on here to know that there are good 'uns and bad 'uns.
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Hi, you may have spent 1K on failed vet checks but what would it have cost you if you had gone ahead and bought one of these horses? You appear to be getting a really good deal pricewise, although I don't understand why anyone would sell a horse at a third of it's value, so why not spend some of the money you are saving on a 5 stage vetting as a lot can happen in a few months? Have you spoken to the original owner, the reason for returning the horse seems a bit questionable to me, but then I'm a very suspicious person!!
 
I do know a lot more about the horse than I have stated on here. He's not mine yet, and I don't think it's my place to elaborate. I am happy with the information I have, and trust very much the person who is selling him. She's a friend of a friend, and is well known.

I asked for opinions because I discussed it briefly with my vet, and she said I may want to think about it. I am. I am thinking about it and forming an opinion with the benefit of your input, for which I am grateful.:)

Perhaps I should clarify: my cheapskate comment was not on skimping on a vet check - I wouldn't. Am aware only too well that buying anyone of those horses without would be far more costly than the loss of money. I was asking if anyone had used fivestagevetting.com because their £179.00 is a heck of a lot cheaper than the £300+ VAT I've paid for a 5 stage in that neck of the woods before.
 
The insurers usually need vetting cert dated within 30 days so I would def get your own vetting done (alongside that anything can happen in 3months so best to have something up to date)
 
I've not come across vetting.com interesting concept but I guess it must be a franchise type thing that local vets sign up to - at that price they can't possibly actually employ vets to cover the whole country. So there is a risk that you get a vet that has a relationship with the dealer/ seller - haven't read the web site in detail to find out what they do in that situation.

Sorry but I'm a believer in 'you get what you pay for' so for £360 vs £170 - just £190 - which is what, a months DIY livery, I get someone personally recommended as horse knowlegable. Being able to observe lameness and do proper flexions is not something a green vet straight out of school would be able to do easily!!
 
What is the price bracket that you need a five stage for insurance purposes? Is it £2500 or £3000 as that may answer your question without going in to reasons for two versus five.

Personally, I would always go for a five stage unless it is a horse that I have knowledge of and seen regularly for at least six months before hand (like a friend's horse on same livery yard) and it was below the insurance £ for five stage vetting

The question I would also ask myself since you seem so keen on this horse: what would you do if this horse failed the 5 stage vetting? Would you use this knowledge to negotiate on the price and still buy the horse or would you just walk away.

Think your answers to the above questions will help you decide

Good luck!
 
£360 sounds expensive, I had a five stage vetting last year by the Royal Veterinary College and it was £210.00 including blood being taken. That was in North London/Herts. I was really pleased with how thorough the vetting was.
 
Fingers crossed this time round for you.
Re LOU & sarcoids, the insurance won't offer LOU arising form anything related to/caused by the sarcoids (eg, one grows where tack sits & is aggressive, can't be removed successfully & can't be ridden as a result) but should still offer LOU for any other reason that isn't excluded.
My vet is only £20 more expensive to have a 5 stage than 2 stage, £180 2 stage I think was the quote.
£190 sounds not unreasonable for livery around here too, anything from £120 - £220 a month DIY round here, you lot get it much cheaper up north :D
 
Completely agree with all who have recommended a 5 stage. If he's really that fab then I'm sure he will pass with flying colours. It's better to have the peace of mind than something crop up a few months after you've bought him as you'd kick yourself then. Good luck with him, I hope it all works out :)
 
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