5* Vetting showed up problem

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throughtheforest

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Hi everyone, I recently had a potential horse vetted and the vet was concerned with the fact that the rising 5 year old horse showed up lame on the final trot up after rest. Horse in question is fully broken 15.2hh Appaloosa cross. The Vet believes that this was due to an issue in the hindquarters and suggested a pulled muscle. I was away during the vetting... Anyway after a discussion with the vet we came to the decision that further investigation was needed before the decision was made to continue with the sale or not.
The owner had taken a deposit and provided a written receipt for the condition of the sale to go through pending vetting. The owner is also the owner of a massive livery yard and whilst I was away she got out her physio to do checks and carry out an ultrasound scan. The next step is visiting the horse again with the physio for a chat with the physio and to go from there. This has all been set up with the owner being very forthcoming and reasonable and I really like the mare. I'm just concerned about a 4 year old failing a vetting. Vet really liked her and said if all goes well and it is a pulled muscle then she is suitable for what I want to do and sees no reason why I should pull out otherwise. She also stated if the answers aren't definitive and she is still uneven then to walk away from the sale. This is the first time I've had a horse vetted prior to purchase and I just wondered as a group of experienced equestrians what your thoughts are on the matter.

Thanks in advance.
 
Any horse can pull a muscle and a young one that is still maturing is more likely to than a more mature horse, especially if up for sale and possibly pushed a little more to get ready or ridden differently during a trial, even the vetting can be a bit more demanding than they are used to.

I would do as the vet suggested, they are being paid for their expertise and most will be conservative when vetting so as yours is fairly keen to continue I would do so provided I really liked the horse but then I would not have gone this far if I was unsure, I think the seller is also being very fair and trying her best to help, you have nothing to lose by continuing other than the cost of another short visit which is far less than starting again.

Just to add I would go to the next vet check if it goes that far.
 
Would you get the vet to repeat the 5* vetting or do a quick lameness check up? The vet actually suggested recording her being trotted up and sending this to her through email. I agree with you just had very bad experience with a horse having health problems who was eventually PTS aged 8. Should this affect her in the future do you think? Sounds like it's just one of those things and I probably just need to get over that bad experience!
 
I think a video is not acceptable as I would want to see what happened before the trot up and have some control over it, I would not have a full 5 stage but would probably want to do a trot, flexions, lunge on the hard and a trot after the lunge, no need to ride again and all the, time consuming feeling all over, doing the markings etc should be done anyway and recorded, I would also expect the bloods to be taken again just in case, the sellers reaction to the request may be telling if she has given it anything.

I did sell one pony that was not right on the final trot, he had a slight bruise to the foot, a week later vet came out saw it trot and signed him as sound.
 
I have a friend who right now has a horse on loan which failed a hind flexion on a possible muscle tweak. The vet was happy to retest, not fail immediately, but the owner offered six months loan. The mare is totally sound and foot perfect and the sale will almost certainly go through in a couple of months time.
 
ycbm said:
I have a friend who right now has a horse on loan which failed a hind flexion on a possible muscle tweak. The vet was happy to retest, not fail immediately, but the owner offered six months loan. The mare is totally sound and foot perfect and the sale will almost certainly go through in a couple of months time.
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Did your friend have the vet out to retest or just go with the loan from then onwards?

Thanks for your advice, there's some very sensible options there. I'm thinking of going to the appointment with the physio next week and seeing what's what there and discussing both having the vet out to view again and a trial period based on the soundness issues detected.
 
throughtheforest said:
Did your friend have the vet out to retest or just go with the loan from then onwards?

Thanks for your advice, there's some very sensible options there. I'm thinking of going to the appointment with the physio next week and seeing what's what there and discussing both having the vet out to view again and a trial period based on the soundness issues detected.
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She's gone with the loan. The mare is so sound that I don't think she will pay for a retest. We'll probably flexion test it ourselves before she pays. The vet on the day said they thought it was just a muscle tweak.
 
I think LWVTB might be a sensible option if they do think it's just a muscle tweak. I'm a bit more cautious because a suspected muscle tweak turned out to be a suspensory injury with a friend's horse. Took a while to diagnose too.
 
I hate it when a vetting shows something up, not least because it will be documented and therefore excluded on insurance.


A video would not do for me, because the lameness showed up after work and rest. For me, a re-test would need to also be after work and a rest. Some conditions, such as bone spavin, classically show up after work and then rest, which is why the 5 stage has this as a whole stage in itself.


So, the horse did not pass the vetting on the stage where he was worked, then rested, then re-tested. For him to pass a 5 stage then this stage needs repeating.


I doubt you would have to pay a full re-test fee, as the vet will not need to re-do initial examination (stage 1) or the ridden, initial flexions, eyes, heart... but he would have to see the horse worked then rested, then re test.


If I liked the horse then this would be my course of action.
 
Given the breeding I would be pulling hair for a PSSM test at the very least, I think theres a blood test that can be done to check for muscle myopathies now as well.
 
Leo Walker said:
Given the breeding I would be pulling hair for a PSSM test at the very least, I think theres a blood test that can be done to check for muscle myopathies now as well.
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Hadn't spotted horse was appaloosa x - same as my walking vet bill.

OP - there are genetic tests that can be run on horses with Appaloosa breeding, but its about a 10 day turnaround.

If you do go for a re-test then vet can take bloods at rest (should not have exercised in 12 hours prior to bloods, although paddock turnout is fine). Then a good 30 mins on the lunge at trot. Then 5 hours back in stable before repeating blood test for CK (creatine kinase). If that is an underlying myopathy rather than a tweak then you'll have elevated CK post exercise. At which point I would walk away. This is not an expensive test for a vet to perform, and did a cracking job of proving to 2 different practices that my mare had an underlying issue that was not behaviour / training related.
 
I know that some people I respect have some reservations over the genetic testing so I would want to back it up with a pre and post exercise CK result too.

I definitely wouldn't want the vet looking at the video, I'd want them to be there to retest.
 
Thanks for everyone's advice.
I'm in discussions with my vet about them repeating the part of the test she failed on and will discuss the other points raised about blood tests etc too.
 
I would 100% do a blood test for CK and AST, ideally pre and post exercise but I believe a fair bit often shows up on just the pre. Cheap and fast. Having got one that turned out to have RER and sister then bought one 2 years ago that I felt wasn’t right in trot, but was put down to muscle strain, it now has been diagnosed with an undetermined muscle myopathy. I would do it in any new purchase now, but definitely an Appaloosa (ours are PREx and a Connemara x.)
 
BBP said:
I would 100% do a blood test for CK and AST, ideally pre and post exercise but I believe a fair bit often shows up on just the pre. Cheap and fast. Having got one that turned out to have RER and sister then bought one 2 years ago that I felt wasn’t right in trot, but was put down to muscle strain, it now has been diagnosed with an undetermined muscle myopathy. I would do it in any new purchase now, but definitely an Appaloosa (ours are PREx and a Connemara x.)
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Can the vet run the test from bloods already taken from the horse?
 
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