50 shades of 'novice' - questions to judge riding ability?

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pennyturner

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There have been many discussions on over-horsed sharers/buyers, and nice horses overlooked because they're advertised as 'not a novice ride' - which competent riders assume means 'psycho', but how do you define 'novice', and more importantly are there any questions which can objectively assess someone's riding competence, say, over the phone, especially to weed out people who've only ridden push-button horses in riding schools?

I'll have a go for starters...

Do you often ride alone?
Do you ever lose your stirrup?
How comfortable would you be with trot / canter / gallop bareback?
Have your previous horses improved over time?

Do you have any tried and tested 'exam questions'?
 
Hmm, interesting thread. But not every 'novice' will come totally unstuck with 'not a novice ride'. I don't think there's a need for fishing questions about someone's ability in order to belittle their experience or lack thereof. There are plenty of competent riding school pupils and plenty of incompetent owners IME.
 
I think a less confrontational approach rather than exam questions may be a good idea

I think i would go in with questions like 'the horse often does x what do you think you'd do if that happened?'

I do think so many of these threads could be avoided by people not being over expectant.

If i was looking for somwone to share a horse or loan to i would weed out as many people as possible then meet up with a good candidate at the pub/park or even stables just for a cuppa and achat before even letting them see the horse - youcan find out a lot by chatting and asking questions

Then if they were good i would invite them to ride but ask then to catch and tack up etc - again you can tell a lot by seeing someone handle a horse

A horse is important to a lot of us yet people give rides away like they are seaside donkeys then lament when things dont work out

Rather than letting say four people come and ride why not spend some time really getting to know the one or two best candidates
 
Could maybe try asking them what seat they prefer and why :) if you get a concise and knowledgeable answer you're probably on to someone who has been around horses past their novice years. But then again, an awful lot of people can talk the talk till the cows come home and freeze up in the saddle, or the horse just hates their guts for some reason. It's a hard thing to judge without actually watching their performance.
 
Tricky, as you'd have to have a definition of 'novice'! To me, 'novice' means just started learning, not long off lead rein, can walk trot and perhaps canter on a safe, sensible horse and has done very little horse care and handling. But to others 'novice' might mean the dressage level, or that nobody knows you on the competition circuit.

You're probably best asking open questions that let people talk - so:

1. What kind of bit did your previous horses use and why?
2. What sort of things have you done previously (and press for details, such as what height were you jumping/what sort of scores did you get in that dressage test etc).
3. How would you ask the horse to engage his hindquarters and why would you ask him to do this?

Can we also make a list of questions to define 'not a novice ride' hehe
 
Thread title made me laugh!!

It's really difficult. I agree with WelshD to an extent, but as fattylumpkin says, people can be very good on paper and can talk the talk. So even if you sat down with someone for 2 hours and got all the right answers to your questions, it doesn't mean that they are really any good at handling or riding horses.

The girl that tried my horse yesterday was very nice and she answered all the questions I asked her quite confidently. We stood and chatted for about an hour before tacking up. Nothing she said made me think she wasn't what she claimed to be. It was only the riding part that went badly wrong!
 
Mmm tricky. Some great riders might not have the gift to articulate clearly and come across as a numpty, and we all know the types who sound like they know it all and can barely trot. Another thing to consider is some people (like me) get realy embarrassed when being watched ride, especially by a stranger and may take a while to get a feel for a horse.

As for questions, I would ask what they would do if a horse napped or was disobedient and perhaps talk about how you would get a horse to go forward or work on the bit so I could try to weed out the whip and spur happy and those who like to tie a horse down into an artificial outline.
 
I have had difficulty in the past finding someone to share my horse, because I have insisted in adverts he's 'not a novice ride'. I have had a stream of teenage girls who have 'ridden the naughty horse' at the local riding school and are 'keen to compete'. I then have had to politely explain that he's not what you would class as a competition horse. He appears to others to be somewhat saintly, fairly ploddy, bombproof, hacks alone, schools ok, done RC, easy to do etc etc and generally an all-round good egg FOR ME. Stick a novice on him however and he turns into an absolute git. Advertising via word-of mouth isn't easy either as other people think he's really easy and that I'm exaggerating (I have the medical records to prove how naughty he can be when he wants to be).
So in response to people who were interested in my horse I resorted to saying that he can be bad mannered, occasionally spooky and throws a good buck! it put a few off. But really, I think people often have a skewed idea of their own ability, and if they are teenagers then their parents, especially if non-horsey, will also be unrealistic. I also think that saying 'not a novice ride' can put off some adult riders as adults tend to put themselves down a lot.
Maybe rather than distinct 'shades of novice' there needs to be a novice 'spectrum'?
 
sussexbythesea said:
pennyturner said:
How comfortable would you be with trot / canter / gallop bareback?
QUOTE]

:eek3: Not at all on my spooky warmblood with a razor sharp wither!
Click to expand...

YOW. I just crossed my legs involuntarily.

I galloped bareback but it was by accident. However, I stayed on. Does that count? I must lose points for galloping by accident, but perhaps gain some for staying on. I rule no score draw.
Click to expand...
 
Without sounding rude and completely not aiming this at any one member. If someone asked me these questions i certainly wouldnt be back, i've owned and ridden for over 10 years but wouldn't canter or gallop on someones unknown horses no matter how 'safe' someone said.
Also, its scary riding infront of someone whos judging you for the word go. My first sharer fell off in trot the first time she rode! I gave her a chance and she was later hacking my horse in open fields, completely alone and jumping higher than i do, i was gutted when she went to uni!
I think things like these link to the threads that go 'i can't find a loaner' or 'no ones answering my ads' i think.
Maybe give these people a chance? Never know, they may surprise you (:
 
Mmmm, I always think the question "are you confident riding a fresh horse in open country at speed" is quite a telling one. If they've done it, they'll tell you about it, i.e. was it hunting, X-Country, etc etc, but if they haven't, they won't be able to make it up.

Unless they count the sedate canters they've had in riding schools as "a fresh horse in open country":) Gosh, if they're REALLY numpty, then they probably would!

Its a difficult one. When I was putting my boy out on loan I asked the above question and it did help to weed people out. Also I asked them to describe what sort of horses they'd ridden in the last year say, and what they'd done with them. And also how they would cope with a challenging horse e.g. hots up in company, goes off the bit, broncs etc etc. You can make something up if you want, but this sort of question "should" weed out the total numpties I'd have thought.
 
When I was looking for a share last year I was given the Spanish Inquisition by one lady, it was incredibly rude and I told her so and left. I do not want to be going into a share where someone quizzes me like it's Mastermind and initially treats me as if I am a liar, there will be no trust there at all, how could I ever have been relaxed and happy knowing she constantly doubted me?!

I think it's very difficult to weed anyone out over the phone, I could probably talk my way through riding Badminton this year as I've seen enough video's and behind the scenes ones. You need to just keep it informal, have a chat over a cuppa, meet and greet, let the person tack up and if they manage to do that without wrapping the horse up in it's own bridle then let them ride it!
 
Jessi&Magic said:
Without sounding rude and completely not aiming this at any one member. If someone asked me these questions i certainly wouldnt be back, i've owned and ridden for over 10 years but wouldn't canter or gallop on someones unknown horses no matter how 'safe' someone said.
Also, its scary riding infront of someone whos judging you for the word go. My first sharer fell off in trot the first time she rode! I gave her a chance and she was later hacking my horse in open fields, completely alone and jumping higher than i do, i was gutted when she went to uni!
I think things like these link to the threads that go 'i can't find a loaner' or 'no ones answering my ads' i think.
Maybe give these people a chance? Never know, they may surprise you (:
Click to expand...

I wasn't suggesting for a moment that you'd ask them to do it!! Just trying to find a way of asking someone's level of competence, especially if they're not the competing type.
 
A complete novice friend of a lady at my yard is looking at buying. She's been out of riding 35ish years (probably never learned very much/very well anyway), couldn't get the horse to trot the other week, can barely manage rising trot...

...well yesterday I got her to send me the links for a few she was looking at, and one of these links was for this
http://m.preloved.co.uk/m/showadvert/108837817

I actually banged my head against the wall. Before politely suggesting she gets some lessons first.

She also sent me several that were as green as the grass. Sigh.

Riding bareback? Did it all the time on my old pony, bareback and in a head collar. Just used to jump on and pop a few jumps. My 16.1? I'd walk round tentatively, preferably with someone close by his head to start off with! I don't like heights!
 
Well my ex would still say he is a novice, and from some of these questions he is. Ask him how to engage the hindquarters? You must be joking!! Ask him if he is happy/when he last galloped a fresh horse in open countryside, the answer would be yes/yesterday!
Its very hard assessing someone's riding ability, without actually getting them on board. I know people who are brilliant on the ground, but not so hot when they get on board, and vice versa!
I usually can tell by asking what sort of horses they usually ride, and what they do with them, but even then it can be hit and miss, some people just live in cloud cuckoo land.
 
hnmisty said:
A complete novice friend of a lady at my yard is looking at buying. She's been out of riding 35ish years (probably never learned very much/very well anyway), couldn't get the horse to trot the other week, can barely manage rising trot...

...well yesterday I got her to send me the links for a few she was looking at, and one of these links was for this
http://m.preloved.co.uk/m/showadvert/108837817

I actually banged my head against the wall. Before politely suggesting she gets some lessons first.

She also sent me several that were as green as the grass. Sigh.

Riding bareback? Did it all the time on my old pony, bareback and in a head collar. Just used to jump on and pop a few jumps. My 16.1? I'd walk round tentatively, preferably with someone close by his head to start off with! I don't like heights!
Click to expand...

Oooo he is lovely but as you say completey unsuitable
 
And also how they Would cope with a horse that hots up in company, goes off the bit, broncs etc etc. You can make something up if you want, but this sort of question "should" weed out the total numpties I'd have thought

Errr- well I personally wouldn't want to be riding a horse that was likely to do any of the above- certsinly don't consider myself a ' Numpty' tho!!!!!
 
I think novice is such a broad term. I would never advertise my horse as 'not novice ride' as I think it puts people off (it would me). I would rather tell them when they phone me if the horse has any issues. I have a newly broken 4 year old who is an absolute saint considering her age, but I still wouldn't consider her a novice ride as she needs guidance and knowledge to progress.

As for a riders experience I think you can get a fairly good idea as soon as they phone up. Do they ask you the right questions? How do they respond to questions such as "do you have a horse at the moment"? I don't think you need to give them the Spanish inquisition. If it's hard to tell over the phone as some people will bend the truth then their true capabilities soon become apparent when they get on board the horse :) I once had someone come to view a horse who didn't even want to get out of their posh Range Rover because it was dirty, I'd never heard anything so ridiculous is my life!
 
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