550 Kilo+ horse diet strategy - so much conflicting advice!

CobSunshine

CobSunshine

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Hey guys,

My horse needs to lose some weight and i'm unsure of the best method. He holds a lot of excess fat on his lower belly and bum.

14.2 hh Welsh section D cob, starting to get a very thick coat, and came in at over 550 kilo of weigh tape.

Heres a selection of the most common suggestions i've been getting...


Option1.

For the last week i've been putting him out in the day with a grazing mask (very lush grazing), and bringing him in at night to stable, with a double bagged small hole heynet (he'll wolf it down in an hour otherwise!) of 12 hour soaked hay which is 2.5% of his 500 kilo first goal weight.

In the morning let out again with grazing mask.

Option2.

Some of the girls at the stable advised grazing mask in day and leaving him out at night with grazing mask as he burns lots of calories to stay warm at night and a cob shouldn't be stabled overnight as its cruel.


Option3.

As above grazing mask in day but no grazing mask at night and being left out all night - as grass has less sugar at night and he'd still burn calories trying to stay warm.


Option4.

Grazing mask all day, brought in at night and given 1 scoop of "Pony Mix" and 1 scoop of "Mollichop" in feed bucket, then put out again with grazing mask all night.


Option5 - your suggestions :o



Thanks in advance for all advice, i want to get the weight off as quickly as possible, with the least stress for the horse as possible.
 
I agree with option 2 if your grazing is lush. Yes they will burn a hell of a lot more now cuz temperature is really dropping at night!

Is there nowhere he can go that has been grazed down already rather than a muzzle though? Our 2 ponies have a starvation paddock from about march til November where they can only eat what grows, obviously we do feed hay too!!
 
That is very heavy for a 14.2HH.

If any I would say option 2. But, I would also consider having him in constantly for about a week and monitor the difference in weight over that period.

Dont think I would want him getting any grass at all with that much weight.


Of course, that makes me cruel, keeping a cob in overnight.. priceless!
 
I would say an even better option would be if you can have access to a starvation paddock? thi worked for my retired pony who is a big fatty usually, hes now about 490 and was about 435 i think? i cant remember but he lost a lot and he needed to. In the morning he had a handfull of chop with his bute in and then went in the starvation paddock with a small holed haynet. then at about 4-5 in the evening he came inside and spent to night in his stable with a double bagged haynet. Even though he was on a diet we were still very generous with how much we filled the haynets.

If you cannot use a starvation paddock then option 1 sounds quite good?

And i have to say i shouldnt own horses as my show cob is only out in the field for 3 hours every other day... lol :) It seems to suit her just fine for now.
 
Obviously a lot depends on your horse's temperament and how he copes with being in, whether there are other horses in when he is stabled, and how well he eats with the muzzle on.

Personally, I wouldn't want him out at any time without the grazing muzzle on - if the grass is lush he will manage to scoff down tons of calories in a short space of time without a muzzle. If he is doesn't fret in the stable and there are others horses in, I can't see the harm of him being stabled overnight.

I definitely wouldn't be giving him any pony mix! What on earth is the justification for that! If you are worried about vit/mins just give something like Benevit or Equivite in a handful of chaff.
 
welsh_monster said:
I agree with option 2 if your grazing is lush. Yes they will burn a hell of a lot more now cuz temperature is really dropping at night!

Is there nowhere he can go that has been grazed down already rather than a muzzle though? Our 2 ponies have a starvation paddock from about march til November where they can only eat what grows, obviously we do feed hay too!!
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No starvation paddock unfortunetely, just very very lush paddocks, with grass as far as the eye can see :(


guido16 said:
That is very heavy for a 14.2HH.

If any I would say option 2. But, I would also consider having him in constantly for about a week and monitor the difference in weight over that period.

Dont think I would want him getting any grass at all with that much weight.


Of course, that makes me cruel, keeping a cob in overnight.. priceless!
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80% of the horses are brought in at night, including many other cobs whom are on the soaked hay 2.5% of goal bodyweight per night method and graze mask in the day. He has got a small rubbing point on his nose from 2 days of the grazing mask, so i'm a bit reluctant to keep it on 24/7.


ilovecobs said:
I would say an even better option would be if you can have access to a starvation paddock? thi worked for my retired pony who is a big fatty usually, hes now about 490 and was about 435 i think? i cant remember but he lost a lot and he needed to. In the morning he had a handfull of chop with his bute in and then went in the starvation paddock with a small holed haynet. then at about 4-5 in the evening he came inside and spent to night in his stable with a double bagged haynet. Even though he was on a diet we were still very generous with how much we filled the haynets.

If you cannot use a starvation paddock then option 1 sounds quite good?

And i have to say i shouldnt own horses as my show cob is only out in the field for 3 hours every other day... lol :) It seems to suit her just fine for now.
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Option 1 gives him a 10hour break from his grazing mask i guess, i'm wondering if 2.5% of 500 kilo in hay = 12.5 kilo hay net per night (soaked 12 hours too) would be low enough in calories to progress his weight loss? I could go to a lower % at night if needed 1.5% of goal bodyweight?

and I guess in his very open stable he's not going to be *that* much warmer than out on the field when the temps really drop? so still calories burnt for warmth as no rugs used etc.


TGM said:
Obviously a lot depends on your horse's temperament and how he copes with being in, whether there are other horses in when he is stabled, and how well he eats with the muzzle on.

Personally, I wouldn't want him out at any time without the grazing muzzle on - if the grass is lush he will manage to scoff down tons of calories in a short space of time without a muzzle. If he is doesn't fret in the stable and there are others horses in, I can't see the harm of him being stabled overnight.

I definitely wouldn't be giving him any pony mix! What on earth is the justification for that! If you are worried about vit/mins just give something like Benevit or Equivite in a handful of chaff.
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When i first got him he hated the stable, now he goes in quite happily and heads straight for the carrot bucket - side question how many carrots can a dieting pony have?

So if I just stick to wet hay at night, grazing mask grass in the day - he'll get enough vit/minerals etc to keep healthy?



Thanks everyone :)
 
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CobSunshine said:
side question how many carrots can a dieting pony have?

So if I just stick to wet hay at night, grazing mask grass in the day - he'll get enough vit/minerals etc to keep healthy?
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Personally, I would only give one carrot - that is enough to give him a reward for coming into the stable. Remember that soaking hay removes the vit/mins as well as the sugars, and at this time of year the vit/min levels are starting to decrease in the grass as well, plus your horse's grass intake is obviously being restricted, so might be wise to give a vit/min supplement in this case.
 
i would choose option 1 as the grazing muzzles are a blessing but are not meant to be used for 24 hours. if left on for 24 hours when you do eventually turn him out without it hes just going to gorge and more than likely colic through it.
and just out of curiosity what time of the day do you weigh him as he will always be bloated after coming of the grazing. the best time is in the morning then you will get an accurate reading
good luck i have this problem with my mare but she suffers with cushings so she has fatty deposits. tried everything under the sun with the help from my vet but to no avail but shes as healthy as can be, keeps up with the others when going for a gallop and doesnt have any arthritic changes yet (she 20)
 
What work is he getting? I always find when they are getting plenty of work the food part is quite easy to sort out. Or maybe your having problems with both?

I think its been easier for me as I was on a hunting/eventing yard for years. Seeing how much exercise they were getting and getting fed really teaches you the value of food and exercise as a combination.
 
I would go for option 1 but the reverse, so he is in through the day and out at night with the muzzle on. I would also increase his exercise and soak the hay for more like 24 - 48 hours to remove even more calories, so it is basically fibre he is getting, and not much else, especially not sugar etc. I don't think 12 hours soaking will remove that many calories, but that's just me personally. I agree with not having the muzzle on him 24/7.
 
erm i might be wrong but feeding him 2.5% of 500kg is a lot for a dieting horse, he is out on lush grass. 2.5% is the total amount of fibre for the day including grass and is what i recommended for horse who are underweight. he should be having between 1.5%-2% of the 500kg target. that is to include any hard feed and treats.

also what work load does he get as he is unlikely to lose a lot of weight if he isn't working.
 
Another option would be to replace the hay with good clean oat straw, almost no calories. We have been using this method for years to keep the weight off good doers. We do have a bare paddock as well, so ours get only what we have fed. Any veg which caramalises when roasted has too much sugar in it for overweight horses IMO, so I would say no carrots.
 
ew1801 said:
i would choose option 1 as the grazing muzzles are a blessing but are not meant to be used for 24 hours. if left on for 24 hours when you do eventually turn him out without it hes just going to gorge and more than likely colic through it.
and just out of curiosity what time of the day do you weigh him as he will always be bloated after coming of the grazing. the best time is in the morning then you will get an accurate reading
good luck i have this problem with my mare but she suffers with cushings so she has fatty deposits. tried everything under the sun with the help from my vet but to no avail but shes as healthy as can be, keeps up with the others when going for a gallop and doesnt have any arthritic changes yet (she 20)
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I will weigh him in the morning next time and see what he comes in at, do you guys prefer weigh tapes or the measuring tape and using the Texas calcuation?

Kaylum said:
What work is he getting? I always find when they are getting plenty of work the food part is quite easy to sort out. Or maybe your having problems with both?

I think its been easier for me as I was on a hunting/eventing yard for years. Seeing how much exercise they were getting and getting fed really teaches you the value of food and exercise as a combination.
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Hacking a couple of times a week, but with the late nights drawing in this will only be weekends soon :( Also lunge him but he gets bored after 5 minutes and jsut stands there looking at me!


vikkiandmonica said:
I would go for option 1 but the reverse, so he is in through the day and out at night with the muzzle on. I would also increase his exercise and soak the hay for more like 24 - 48 hours to remove even more calories, so it is basically fibre he is getting, and not much else, especially not sugar etc. I don't think 12 hours soaking will remove that many calories, but that's just me personally. I agree with not having the muzzle on him 24/7.
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He does get stressed when in stable by himself when every other horse it out in the day, but i'll try the 12 hour soak.

LadyRascasse said:
erm i might be wrong but feeding him 2.5% of 500kg is a lot for a dieting horse, he is out on lush grass. 2.5% is the total amount of fibre for the day including grass and is what i recommended for horse who are underweight. he should be having between 1.5%-2% of the 500kg target. that is to include any hard feed and treats.

also what work load does he get as he is unlikely to lose a lot of weight if he isn't working.
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So if he's grazing mask in the day would 1.5% 7.5 kilo be enough overnight?


yorksG said:
Another option would be to replace the hay with good clean oat straw, almost no calories. We have been using this method for years to keep the weight off good doers. We do have a bare paddock as well, so ours get only what we have fed. Any veg which caramalises when roasted has too much sugar in it for overweight horses IMO, so I would say no carrots.
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I'll see if I can find this locally. :)



So i'm leaning towards option 1 so far with 7.5 kilo of hay, then soaked for 12 hours.

Nutrient wise I just need something to put in his bucket for vit/min, say a small scoop of mollichop? or are there any cubes i could give him each day just a couple hand fed?
 
Sorry, may not have made it clearer, but I would soak for between 24/48hrs, not just 12hrs. Also, rather than mollichop (which tend to have a fair bit of sugar in I think), you might be better to give him something like Happy Hoof, as is more designed for laminitus (not saying he has it), but will have much less sugar/be much less calorific :)
 
Given that the cold weather is coming, the easiest way to make him lose weight would be to clip him (not nec all out, just a trace clip would do), and not rug to compensate - so small clip and no rugs. He will burn off a lot of that fat keeping warm. Then leave him out with grazing muzzle, or out in day, in at night. But remember, his 2.5% needs are TOTAL dry matter. That includes grass intake and hard feed. For a diet 2% is fine. He should be on chaff with a vit and min supplement, then you halve what he'd need for nightly hay (and soak it to remove as much goodness as poss). So you'd want to give him approx 4-5kg hay at night max.
 
I have a Welshie D who now weighs 435 kg and has the the ok from the vet at being the correct weight and shape.
My lads routine is as follows and I have managed to maintain his weight on this since April this year:
Exercised 6 days a week hacking with lots of hills to walk up. Now that the mornings are dark I can no longer ride during the week so I walk and trot him around the spare field in hand in the dark with a head torch. I have worked out that 5 laps (big field that he is not on) equates to his weekly 40 min hack inmileage terms. This is very boring for both of us but is necessary to keep him moving and burning calories.
He is out on well eaten down grass during the day from 6.30am to 7pm and basically has to nibble at the blades as they grow through...no need for a muzzle as he works hard for his food anyway.
At night he comes in throughout the entire year to give him a rest from eating grass. He has a third of a bale of small bale last years hay, wetted down and fed in two small holed haynets.
Other than that he gets two handfuls of Dengie Healthy Hooves twice a day to put an all round supplement into.
He has not treats, no carrots, no mints, lickits, nothing else at all apart from a treat on his birthday and one on Christmas day...mean though it sounds...everything contains calories and I do not want him getting laminitis again!
He currently has no rug on at all and wont until he has grown a decent winter coat or it drops very cold, wet and windy.
I have had to harden myself up from feeling sorry for him and throwing hay at him like it is going out of fashion.
He is a good weight now, you can feel his ribs, the dip has gone from his bum and there is a faint outline of rib when he trots or canters.
 
The best advice is to find as many opportunities as possible for him to use as many calories as possible. So as much exercise as possible, no rugs whatever the weather, and fill him up on oat straw because restricting intake, in terms of hours, doesn't work, horses will just gorge themselves on grass if they are kept in with no forage or muzzled for part of the time but kept out all the time. If you have no 'bare' paddock could you put him in a school with oat straw? Eating straw is brilliant because it has very few calories and the horse actually uses calories digesting it - a bit like us eating celery, lol!
 
I would try in during the day with soaked hay and out at night with a muzzle or a starvation paddock or track with a muzzle on until the grass is eaten down:)
 
My 14hh cob is a bloater.

Is your boy fat all over of just on his belly? My cob carries alot (nearly all) of "weight" on his tum however a lot of this is down to bloating/gas. Have you condition scored your boy too?


He is currently out 24/7 in a 4-5 acre field muzzled 24/7. He will only be rugged IF he is clipped and will only be out in a LW unless it is absolutely baltic out and he is obviously freezing.

I noticed the best weight loss at our old yard when he was out in the day and in at night with 10lbs hay in a small holed net.

Frankie gets no carrots/treats/licks (apart from the salt lick thing) and has a small feed of fast fibre and naf slimline which I know lots of people have seen quite good results with.
 
Definitely lose the molasses in feed.
And get some work into him! If he won't lunge then bloody well make him. You can make it more interesting by introducing lots of transitions or putting poles out.
My fatty has lived out this summer 24/7 with muzzle on for half the time (either day or night depending on what the weather is doing as he got really hot in it!). The weight is slowly coming off with daily riding - a few hills, stubble fields and jumping once a week.
I have given no hard feed but included Equibites made by D & H (I think) - they are low calorie vit/min treats designed for horses who don't have hard feed. So I would recommend them if you;re worried about getting vits/mins into him.
 
vikkiandmonica said:
I would go for option 1 but the reverse, so he is in through the day and out at night with the muzzle on.
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I do this with my small pony, because I think he gets too hot under the muzzle if out in it during the day. I also feed a fair amount of straw with what little hay he gets.
He has lost about 50kg since June on that regime.
 
First of all - make him lunge! He spends 23hrs a day doing what he pleases. For the 1hr you ride/work with him he should do as you want him to!

Ok. Our fell as lost nearly 100kg from when we got her to now. This is the regime she is kept on.

I don't honestly believe it makes a huge amount of difference if they are in or out during the day.

By the day I mean 1 24hr period.

Out for half the day with a grass mask all the time - by that I mean no little days off, and all year round. Even in winter when the grass is scare. The only time she hasn't had it has been during the snow.

In for the rest of the time. She gets a double net small hole haynet (check out the haynets from here http://parellproducts.com/ - much easier than dealing with two haynets and really work) with 3.5kg of hay which has been soaked for 12 hours. Remember when working out how much hay to give, the 2% of the body weight is for a 24 hour period. It also includes any feeds you are getting. So we worked out what 2% was, took 1kg away which is the dry mass of her feeds, then halved it to get the hay for during the night. No, this amount does not last the entire night, but you have to develop a hardness to this. You cannot feed ad-lib and loose weight with the ponies like welsh Ds and fells who live on thin air!

Feed wise, she has top spec top chop lite, top spec balancer lite and seaweed, salt and cosequine for her slight stiffness (she's an older girl now).

For your pony, I would definately get off mollichaff and mixes. They are full of suger which is the last thing you need. I would find a low calorie balancer to ensure your pony is getting the correct vitamins and minerals. Top spec do one, and I think blue chip have a version as well.

If you want to add anything to this, then I'd use a bag of dengie hi fi lite. This is not meant for horses and ponies in work, but is quite effective as a one off buy to start off the weight loss process. After this, then move onto something like dengie hifi or topspec top chop lite.

If you must feed carrots or apples, only a half of one in a feed. They're just extra suger.

Your pony does not need anything more than that. He is clearly getting enough from the grass, so mixes arn't needed! You will probably notice a drop in energy levels - this is the inevitable consequence of trying to lose weight. You need to stop giving him suger to burn off as energy in order to burn off his fat for energy!

Keep him rugged as lightly as possible and fully clip him when the time comes. He should always feel lukewarm/cool when checking his temperature, but never cold.

Good luck. It's tough, and you will have to develop a heart of stone to avoid the petted lips your pony will do. But it'll be worth it - cruel to be kind.

Also, don't expect miracle results. It took a good year to slim our morbidly obese fell down. These things take time and patience. Take plenty of pictures so you have a visual way to see the differences. Also, only use your weigh tape just before you turn out - otherwise you will be measuring grass bloat not just fat!

Good luck! any questions, feel free to send me a pm :)
 
Great advice so far thanks everyone!

The grazing mask idea is a no goer he keeps removing it and then gorging himself.

So I've now moved him to a different yard where he's in an enclosed pen approx 20 metre squared with no grazing.

im going to feed him soaked hay but how much kg as he has no grazing now?

Also the pen is outside so he's not stuck in a stable and other horses can come up to the fence so he can socialize
 
The starvation paddock or pen is the answer and manage the feeding with just a couple or three slices of hay per day. Our Fell x welsh pony (Jessie) is a good dooer and she will put on weight in the middle of winter off grass alone. It is a constant batttle to keep the weight off her, but in comparison, our TB mare (Ebony)drops her weight very easily when worked through the winter and it can be a battle to keep the weight on her even when double rugged and given weight gaining hard feeds (alpha oil & speed beet works well)

Leaving them to pile the weight on is so hard on their joints.
 
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CobSunshine said:
Great advice so far thanks everyone!

The grazing mask idea is a no goer he keeps removing it and then gorging himself.

So I've now moved him to a different yard where he's in an enclosed pen approx 20 metre squared with no grazing.

im going to feed him soaked hay but how much kg as he has no grazing now?

Also the pen is outside so he's not stuck in a stable and other horses can come up to the fence so he can socialize
Click to expand...

That sounds so much better than all that lush grass! I would feed 1.5% - 2% of his current weight in very well soaked hay. For vits and minerals I would feed a handful of non molassed chaff (Topspec topchop lite or badmington alfafa lite are my choices) with a couple of scoops of pink powder. That plus plenty of exercise should get the weight off - for exercise don't go nuts on loads of fast work, to get weight shifted then a really forwards walk or trot for a good long hack will help shift the fat better.
 
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