5yo - Kicking and damaging the stable door.

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GREYSMEADOW

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I have a rising 5yo (about 16.1 and growing) who decided to exit the stable door whilst it was bolted at the top and bottom. I think he heard “Shall I feed now” and I couldn’t get to him quick enough as I was trying to get his neighbour in his stable too (they both have 27/4 stable / yard access). This is the second time he’s done this. The last time was when my old boy was being trotted up in the lane with the vet in attendance and we heard a BANG and he was found munching the horsehage in the stable next door to him. The 2 geldings are jealous of each other at feed times.

What he did was he jumped up so that his shoulders/chest were much higher than the stable door and thumped it one which forced the kick plate out at the bottom and bent the wooden frame at the side. They are only wooden stables. His stable manners are not great but I am working on that.

Last week he decided to see an invisible snowman and he pulled me over (whilst leading him out of the field with a bridle on) and I went flying through the air and finished off in the wet and mud. I think he was so shocked that I didn’t let go of him.
He is very bargey and thick skinned and is always in your personal space. He will walk though you given the chance. Unfortunately the winter has been terribly wet and my two are not getting much turnout because of the deep mud and my older horse cannot stand being out for long at the moment, that’s why they have yard turnout with access to hay. Turning him out on his own is not an option.

I have an instructor who is riding/schooling him only once a week as I’m unable to ride him at the moment due to health issues.

He is improving when I put his haynet up (he can only eat when I have finished putting it up) and I do reward him when he is good.

How can I stop him mowing the stable door down? Would it help with a Anti Weave Grill and putting the stable door higher? Oh and he does kick the stable door.

Moving yard is not an option either as its free.

I also thought about giving the 5yo some calmer but was told that may cause long term liver problems!

Was thinking about getting a chifney for leading him to/from field. He's not great at putting bit in his mouth either. Teeth have only just been done.

I would welcome some advise / suggestions please.

Many thanks.
 
Unfortunately his efforts to get through the stable door have been reinforced by that one episode when it worked.
There are two ways to ensure that learned behaviour dies out - ignore it, especially the extinction burst when the tries become so much bigger, or use an aversive. The use of an aversive means usually that you have to be there each and every time he tries to administer something he finds unpleasant, and that is unlikely to be practical unless you can rig something up (electric fence??).
Ignoring it is going to result in him acheving again, and reinforcing again, unless you can find some way of preventing it and allowing him to learn to cope with the frustration of not being able to get out when he wants to. An anti weave grill could very well work - get one with the infill so that if he still finds a way so long as his head is on the outside, you can block it (temporarily hopefully) and stop him geting his chest to the door. Make sure you don't tiptoe around whatever the temptation is - he needs to learn to deal with it.
Good luck - he sounds like a really determined lad, which could be great if you can channel it to do stuff FOR you.
 
Get him out more. He's only ridden once a week & gets little turnout, sounds bored & frustrated to me. He's young & if he had playmates & an older horse to put him in his place out in a field I think his issues would disappear. Have you got space for a livery or two who'd want to turn out all day? Preferably an older horse to keep order & a young gelding to play with. Or if only one a slightly older but playful gelding to keep order. Imo his only problem is that your management/ set up doesn't suit his current needs.
 
Give some hay before feed and doing stuff around the yard. In fact make sure he has hay/haylage in the stable at all times if he is escaping to get to food.
 
We have had good results with my sisters bargy & nappy to lead horse with the Monty Roberts headcollar, easy to put on and off in a 'situation' ;)
 
I'd ignore him kicking the door, mine all do it when they know dinner is coming. It can be annoying if you let it be. Mine usually live out but did come in in the recent snow and ice for a break from it. Having a five year old in so much is going to make him bored stupid and so his behaviour will reflect that. As someone else said can't you put him enough hay in so that he isn't waiting each time you fill a net? Give him two nets if need be, also if it was me, I would sprinkle hard feed around his bedding so he was occupied looking for it - or even carrots - while you are doing jobs elsewhere. As for barging when going out, he is probably really excited to be going and just wants to get there. Cannot blame him when exercise is so limited. I would also put a grill on for now to get him out of the habit of barging - for his own safety, but then if his food is in his stable he won't have to escape to get any. Some people may say "why hurry and work to his demands" but my answer is he seems to have already had to adapt so much away from what is normal for horses, a little bending by the owner is also needed.
 
Take the door out of the equation. One yard I was one had steel D hooks imbedded in the wall and iron bars went through them. Never even saw the stallion close to going through that.

I use leccy fencing on my cob. She kicks the door and barges. Now I have two strips of leccy fencing rops chest heigh and knee height and electrify it and shes had a good few blasts and is now very respectful of it. I screwed connecters into the inside of the door and rigged it that way. I earth it using a bin full of soil and rocks plased to the side of the door and the fencing stab goes in it.
 
Using a bar or rope will help break the cycle of learning and reinforcement by stopping human annoyance at the banging and their subsequent reinforcement of the behaviour. I personally wouldn't use electric, stables are small enough as it is, but each to their own. However, if hunger was the initial motivator I do think this aspect should be addressed as a fundamental to help in all this and in my view all cases like this.

I do think a (good) professional pair of eyes on the ground will help all round by the sound of it. :)
 
My 5 year old ID has similarly bad stable manners so I was interested to read the suggestions.
The main problem for my boy is boredom - he was so much calmer when he was out most of the time - now I do still turn out every day - essential for him and my old boy has to put up with the mud :o:o - but I also ride every day if possible and keep feeding small amounts of hay when stabled.

My suggestions- 2 bars positioned inside the door, a "be nice" halter which has ropes that tighten over the poll and face, they are very respectful of this usually and keep him busy!! The personal space and general bargy attitude is something that will take time - I'm hoping the summer will help as he is more chilled :rolleyes:
 
Thank you for all your replies – they are most helpful.

I was only talking in the farm shop this morning as they are always asking about my giant pony and up popped the father of a NH and the person only lives down the bottom of the lane (I totally forgot about her). I also know of an animal behaviourist so I thinking on that line too when funds allow.

My instructor is only available at week-ends until the evenings get lighter as he has a full-time job like me. I have access to a school but it’s been under water, covered in snow and the lane has been too dangerous to get past the gate (but that was a few weeks ago)!

They both have ad-lib hay (day/night in their stables). He seems to associate people with FOOD and cannot eat his hard feed quick enough (non heating type) and strikes out at the wall whilst eating. He can’t understand that when he’s finished his feed why his mate is still eating his. I have asked the YO to feed him from the ground.

He has a swede hanging (has already demolished the carrots attached) – he’s rather clever. I gave him a treat ball, but he would rather play for England – good at kicking with it.

I can’t put any feed in his bed as it’s like a manure heap in the morning! I will try sliced up carrots hidden in the haynet though. He had a mineral lick which he likes. I was thinking of getting him another hanging lick but without the sugar content but haven’t seen any yet.

The YO does my horses in the afternoon for me whist I’m at work. I’d like to turnout more but there was an incident last year (November time I think) with my old chap. He was seen galloping flat out around the field with the electric fencing/poles wrapped around his legs (probably still zapping). He was wet through and well lathered up and cut a hind leg. The youngster was last seen busy munching the grass. By the time the YO got my old boy up onto the yard he heard a crash. My youngster was next seen trotting up the side of the field towards the yard – he had jumped the metal gate!

A few days later I had to get the vet out as the old chap wasn’t happy and not himself. Had bloods taken and results were all fine. What she thinks could of happened that he may have almost tied up, and so I don’t want to be in that situation again – its not worth the risk. I think perhaps the youngster keeps him awake at night too.

I have been at the yard for 31 years and this Winter has been truly the wettest. Unfortunately, I don’t have any space for a livery.

It seems like my old chap panics when the ground suddenly sinks underneath him (half way up his cannon bone) he’s in about 10”+ of mud then.

I have the MR halter which I use on him but was being a bit of a tank and decided to use the bridle too. I managed to put the bridle on him today (to turn out) but it was a struggle, think it may have been to do with the dentist as he had his teeth done yesterday. I have tried the rubber bit and now the snaffle. I’m wondering if it’s the coldness/taste of the bit he doesn’t like. He has another bit when being ridden which is copper lozenge type with cheeks. I will watch my instructor at the week-end when he tacks him up. I’m thinking about putting some honey on the bit next time.

I brought him in with the MR halter today as had given up with the bridle. I now know what the invisible snowman was – 2 ponies in the neighbouring field!... and he put me on the floor because of them!

I do find that the MR halter is awkward to put on and really doesn’t fit quite right. I will investigate into the ‘be nice halter’. It doesn’t help when we have to march through deep mud and like today had my neighbours horses cantering and snorting along the other side of the hedge. No wonder I need to put myself in the washing machine when I get home!

He’s getting better with the horsey pressure washer and stands without being tied up when washing his feet and tail. In fact I very rarely tie him up. He’s also improving when picking his feet up too (much easier with feathers on). Last year he sneaked up behind the YO onto the manure heap and then turned around and walk back down and out. Don’t think he would now fit through the gateway!

Today before feed time I put them both in and shut their doors and put some electric tape a few inches above the youngster’s door. He had a few snorts at it and realised it wasn’t on and had his head over the door next but kept his distance from the tape. He did back up when I asked him to.

The more the ground dries up the more turnout they will get. The old boy liked being out in the winter all day before but this incident last year has blown his brain and at 26yo this year I don’t want ‘that situation’ all over again.

I got my youngster at the end of September and they were both out 24/7. He was vetted about a month to 6 weeks later when he was still out 24/7 when he barged through the stable door then. His manners were poor then.

Just need to keep working on the stable manners as he does like testing the boundaries.

Roll on Spring sunshine. We all need some of that.

Thanks again for your input.
 
My girl is a door banger,to the point she would give me a headache and she always had hay,good turnout and feed AM and PM,she was an absolute monkey.But she would also stress to the point she would size up the door and do the same as your lad and use her chest to get her out.Since shes been on my own yard and we converted my field shelter in to stables we decided to give her a go and she how she was.My OH put two very thick bars up one above chest height and one above knee height which dont get me wrong she tried to kick like she used too and her party trick of leaning on the top bar to get out,but after 3 days all behaviour vanished to the point I can take away my top bar and leave my lower whilst I go in and out and shes been brilliant she just stands there happily munching on her hay.I would say try a bar even if its one just across his door just above chest height as I found it has prevented my mare from leaning and useing her chest.But she does get long turnout everyday. :)
 
A lot of it is repetition, keep correcting his mistakes and he will learn.


when my 13.2hh welsh x was 2 she was on box rest and literally went through the stable door to escapeone day!


Sounds like he needs more enterainment, exercise and turnout.
get him a playmate if your older horse cant go out, hes young and needs to let of steam.
 
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