5yo with kissing spines and complications

J

Jenko

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Looking for a bit of advise/ other people experiences.

i recently had my mare diagnosed with impingement of L4/L5, a significant tear to the supraspinous ligament, but all facets are good, and no signs of arthritus or any other impingemnt in other areas.

She had L5 'trimmed' so not a full resection of the vertebrae but just has a portion shaved off to stop the area that was causing interference. She has 3 weeks box rest and then went into a therapy centre for rehab and physio. After a further 2 weeks in rehab she had her spinous ligament rescanned and it was looking very well healed, with all her work and strength, coordination and control improving daily whilst in therapy. During all of this she has had a persistent toe drag behind. we were hoping that it was directly due to the back problem, but it has not gone away it has got worse, with it markedly worse on the right hind, and is wearing the toes down. She had shoeing to help with this, shoes set back and toes rolled to try to help break over, but no improvement.

She had the right hock blocked this week which showed positive, with a marked improvement to the gait. The vet is suggesting we now xray to confirm whether this is a bone or soft tissue issue before medicating blindly, although he did say this was an option!

i just wanted to know if people had experience of hock issues post overriding dsp diagnosis? the vet is suggesting tildren for boney related issue and poss a steroid for anything else. Have people had success with horses even with further complications? should i bother to xray? my insurance money has long since run out, so unless i can start a second claim for this issue i am running on limited funding.

any advise or experiences greatly recieved

:)
 
Hi just a thought as I own a successful post op KS horse who remains working well 7years on from surgery. I have to stress I am no expert, but I think the toe drag can be a potential secondary symptom of KS as usually a KS horse has real problems coming through from behind to push forwards and often you will see a toe drag as they can't lift their backs and engage their hocks correctly. My boy used to paddle from the hips rather than using his legs properly. I have just taken him barefoot as have had issue with farrier and his heels and when we took the shoes off, the balance of his feet was really out and causing him to lean inwards on his feet, also he had long toes, so started to hit the ground toe first, he was looking increasingly stiff behind and not moving forward properly, I feel the foot balance was def to blame. I have been doing lots of long reining with him and he is starting to show more suspension in his movements again. He has suffered from toe drag in the past and now he has no shoes on we will be able to tell if the problem resolves with good foot balance or shows up an underlying issue going forwards. I will be introducing some ground poles and pole exercises soon to get him engaged, strengthen his bum and work the hocks.

I can't advise on any damage done or deterioration of the back end but I thought I'd post as I have helped a few horses suffering from KS and in my experience they are hugely sensitive to foot balance and moving incorrectly may contribute to other problems further down the line potential of the type you are dealing with. At least it may give you some food for thought. My horse is now being trimmed by a good podiatrist for 6months to see how he gets on, but 4 weeks in he is already looking much more like his old self.

I'm sorry I can't advise properly, but maybe my experience will give you something to investigate further and I hope you get it sorted. Good luck.
 
Thanks BethH, she has been shod due to feeling her foot balance could be better and the tendency for her heels to under run.

deffinatley agree with the horse being unable to push through from behind and this is why we felt the toe drag was initially to be connected to the KS. As she was so blocked we felt once she was able to lift and come up through the whither the hind leg would then be able to travel better. As her therapy has progressed she is now much stronger behind but still lacks strength over the whither area.

but worried that i am going to be looking at suspensory damage/spavins...neither of which are good in a 5yo that has done virtually no work yet!!
 
My neddie was the same age when we found out about his problems, it is heartbreaking to deal with so you have my sympathy, we really have worn the t-shirt on this one as my horse was nearly pts at 6 because his behaviour was so erratic and dangerous from the KS - he is poppet now (most of the time!).

FWIW, I think the underrun heels are caused by shoeing and shifting the break over point may or may not help, my horse when shod used to have his toes rolled due to toe wear and we are watching to see if this stops as he is moving more freely again. Having done lots of investigation over the last few weeks, I would say that if you decide not to do shoes, which is a big step, but may allow the feet to recover, although will need a bit of investigation on your part re diet etc, (the lack of foot balance as it seems to me is caused by some farriers fitting the hoof to the shoe not the shoe to the hoof judging by my own experiences!), then have a look at barefoot with a PODIATRIST not a farrier or barefoot trim as they look properly at the heel & frog ratio and are very careful to not to over trim, they seem clearer also about encouraging correct heel angles.

I wonder if the toe drag will continue until the heels recover which could take a few months. It doesn't take away from the fact that something else may well be going on with your neddie and I am clearly not a vet, but my horse having started to suffer with under-run heels completely changed the way he moved and looked very stuffy.

By the way, has your rehab included long reining long and low and some pole work to encourage elevation and back end movement as that may get him thinking more. With the poor shoeing, it was almost as though Ryan didn't know where to place his feet anymore and he became a little clumsy which is most unlike him. Since the shoes came off and the heel has grown a little that has markedly improved and he is beginning to bend more again too.

I just wish horses could speak English and then you would have an idea of how to fix them!
 
I will have a investigate on shoeing/barefoot options, though she was shod they way she is to support the heels more.

Her therapy involves huge amounts of long reining, pole exercises and mazes to encourage better stability/control and usage of the core stability muscles. She also goes on a treadmill, with breach strap to help activate hind limb, and a handler by the hindquarter to encourage her to be active and push through. and has various inferential/TENS therapy on muscles!
 
Blimey, well by the sounds of her rehab, you are doing everything right and more, the treadmill sounds amazing I can't imagine my horse tolerating that at all, he used to do handstands even in a pessoa!

I am hoping for you that any potential damage is soft tissue from incorrect movement and will be sorted with time and foot growth. I chatted to my farrier and asked him to support the heels better when I realised what had happened to my horses feet and they overdid the support, my poor horse could barely move hence my need to take him barefoot at least for a bit to let his feet grow, but I think my experience was particularly bad with my farrier getting his apprentice to do the work which was the problem. The podiatrist trimmer I switched to said to me that the podiatry barefoot approach was helping lots of horses with feet issue like navicular (Rockley seems to be similar thing) and they were also investigating whether it could help KS horses too as there was some evidence being collected that it could. I guess like anything, it's what works for your individual horse.

Fingers crossed for you that you have some good news over the next couple of weeks let us know how you get on.
 
Very difficult one and I definately agree with you about how complicated it all becomes-as many are suggesting barefoot and I am very aware of how easy it is to cling to any suggestion that you feel may 'cure' your horse, I feel I should add my bit. My horse had very similar problems to yours- same KS diagnosis, deemed by the vet as severe, same toe drag and lack of hind end movement. Before even considerering surgery she had both steroids and a total back block to aid the vet diagnosis, neither of which made any difference in the long term (she did improve very slightly with steroids for a couple of weeks until she was ridden), but the local anaesthetic made her worse if anything. She was barefoot and had been all her life, she was 7 when we made the horribly sad decision to pts last month. We had to accept that her problems were much more than just the Kissing Spines, which were really just a symptom of her other problems.
 
my horse is 6 months post KS surgery he had three fused they removed two fully. He too was almost PTS due to erratic behaviour now he is lots better but we have our moments. He did have hock issues diagnosed at the time and now has had them medicated they said that his arthritis was caused by his KS again he had tow dragging. My vet said that once the KS is out of they way we may fine a couple of other things that it was hiding
 
I was worried that having fixed the KS and ligament issues we would find other problems. She is having her hocks x-rayed on weds to see if we can get a definitive diagnosis on those and im hoping it is something we can help and she will respond to treatment, otherwise it isn't looking good for a 5yo that has done nothing yet to have joint issues/ ongoing back problems, and i may well consider pts as i don't feel she will make a hack for somebody, she can be super sharp at times! and i don't think i can afford another field ornament sadly.... fingers crossed
 
It is very much the single most horrible situation to be in-believe me-I know, and I really sympathise, but what you must think about is the long term future of your horse. If your horse cannot be comfortable 'just being a horse', then you have your answer.
 
sadly i seem to get my fair share of horses with lameness issues, not ever simple, easy to diagnose or fix ones either!!
 
So he hock x-rays came back clear, which i think is good! We decided to medicate the joint anyway and hopefully that will settle any inflammation down, so see how she goes over the next few days, and hopefully all is good, so i will be bringing her home Monday!!!
 
Delighted for you, glad you have had some good news, take things slowly but surely, get her in a good work routine with lots of long reining different speeds within paces to get her back strengthened and hind end engaged and see how she goes. My gut is that she needs to strengthen and that is going to take some time, but once she lays down some solid, long term correct muscle and her feet grow a bit, that will hopefully help your other issues at the back end. Use the benefit of the injection to keep her moving and ensure correctness long and low whilst she is comfortable and the strength she gains from that will allow you to carry on when the injection wears off. Also I found adding some marigold (calendula) flowers to my horses feed was good for him, it apparently helps soft tissue healing!

As I was told "Take your time but don't waste it"! and please enjoy her!

Best of luck let us know how she goes.
 
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