6 Breeds that have changed drastically in the last 100 years

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I think this is the article Dobiegirl is referring to.

http://idw-online.de/pages/de/news586117

If it is a gene, it is quite likely that every GSD carries it, HD is known to skip generations . It is an interesting article though.
As Alec says , responsible breeders and owners have been x raying since the 70s (and indeed before) and it is disappointing that the improvement has only been slight, although I do think there has been an improvement certainly in GSDs. The problem is that people x ray and then still breed from animals with poor hips, there is nothing to stop them doing this, even if they are members of the KC Assured Breeders Scheme. They have to health test to be members of the latter but don't have to abide by any criteria for result/score. As people posting on AAD have shown, the general puppy buying public are often still not aware of the need to buy stock from low scoring parents, and as long as the irresponsible breeders have a market they will keep churning them out.

Agree with this as well MM - it has little to do with the KC, it is the breeders who continue to breed from dogs with genetic problems who are the ones to blame. I even know of show quality CKCS who were still used at stud despite being tested to be predisposed to syringomyelia, just as certain breeders still bred from dogs who were predisposed to heart/eye problems. These are the people who give pedigree dog breeders a bad name, not the Kennel Club.

 

[ester]

Thanks BC,

I do think puppy buyers have a part to play too - if everyone insisted on seeing relevant test results for the parents there wouldn't be any point in breeding below par healthwise.

 

[Dry Rot]

Agree with this as well MM - it has little to do with the KC, it is the breeders who continue to breed from dogs with genetic problems who are the ones to blame. I even know of show quality CKCS who were still used at stud despite being tested to be predisposed to syringomyelia, just as certain breeders still bred from dogs who were predisposed to heart/eye problems. These are the people who give pedigree dog breeders a bad name, not the Kennel Club.

You clearly know very little about how the KC operates…or there is a lot you know but are not saying!

The KC delegates, which is not the same thing as relinquishing, control. But the ultimate authority is theirs. The KC licences shows and trials. It approves judges, registers societies. It's power extends way beyond dogs as I know from personal experience. Step out of line and they will pull strings to affect your employment, your education, who your friends and supporters are, how you make a living, etc.

As I have said before, they operate like a cross between the Mafia and the Free Masons and their power needs to be curtailed. Making it subject to the democratic decisions of those who subscribe to their truly huge income would be a first step. Did you know that even their own members do not get to scrutinise their accounts? Malcolm Willis tried and got booted out for this trouble. "Power corrupts but absolute power corrupts absolutely".

The only reason I speak out is because I am old and was self employed, but they tried everything to ruin me because I wrote the truth and revealed just a tiny bit of what goes on. I cannot recall a single criticism that what I wrote was not true. My solicitors saw it immediately and handled a case for me pro bono (free of charge) to change the rules. Girls from The Office of Fair Trading phoned me up and applauded my efforts as they know only too well what goes on.

Little to do with The Kennel Club? You can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time.

 

[MurphysMinder]

I think you are probably replying to Levrier but to clarify I do think the KC could do a lot more. If they refused to register pups unless the parents had good results under health tests required for the breed it would remove the selling point of "KC reg"which so many looking to buy puppies seem to value.
Malcolm Willis was a huge thorn in the KCs side even after he was booted out, that was one of the stupidest things the KC ever did, to lose someone with so much knowledge was just crazy.

 

[Alec Swan]

Just as horses can be registered with more than one Breed Society, so could dogs. If the B-Ss aren't fit for purpose, then secondary and parallel Clubs could easily be set up to run in parallel, and whilst Crufts wouldn't be available to those who chose the alternative, certainly for Working Tests and Trials, regardless of discipline, be they Gundogs or Sport Dogs of any persuasion, would slowly transfer their allegiance. It's already happening with GSDs, so C_C advises me, and that for those dogs to be shown (and conformation is of importance), but under non-KC rules, so they have to qualify.

Everyone admires the attempts which Malcolm Willis made, but in a previous life, I reckon that he was in the Charge of the Light Brigade. He didn't stand a chance. The Kennel Club is an institution which with every single director and decision maker looking over their shoulders for the approval of their peers, so attempting 'Change from within', is futile. Their narrow and apparently insular approach is very similar to that of the rspca, if we think about it!

Another excellent post from you Dry Rot.

Alec.

 

[LessThanPerfect]

I always fancied a Manchester terrier Alec. But the work has been bred right out of them and my OH was not keen. He says the same with most Border terriers too. I think I liked the idea of having a mini dobie to match the big one 😊

I had a Manchester Terrier (in the 1990s) who did very well in the show ring including at Crufts but I can assure you that her hunting instincts were well in evidence too, woe betide any rat that was brave enough or daft enough to.enter our garden when Dayna was loose! Many Manchester still have very pronounced hunting instincts.

I also had a friend who showed Labs but also trained her dogs to work. She was training a young dog to retrieve when it decided to present my friend with a live rat! My friend couldn't refuse to accept it without risking ruining the dogs training so she accidently on purpose fudged the catch and dropped it! This dog then gave my friend the most disgusted look that a dog can give a human then promptly caught the rat again and re-presented it! Luckily my friend had the presence of mind to grab a bucket to drop the rat in!

 

[Girlracer]

I have seen this before, I adore Dachshunds but hate what they'e becoming. Some of those are dreadful!

For the record, here's my pedigree dachshund....

Pretty sure she wouldn't do so well in the show ring, but at least she doesn't have the issues the breed now so commonly has.

(her back legs don't usually turn in like that, it's just how she's stood!)

 

[mynutmeg]

I have seen this before, I adore Dachshunds but hate what they'e becoming. Some of those are dreadful!

For the record, here's my pedigree dachshund....

Pretty sure she wouldn't do so well in the show ring, but at least she doesn't have the issues the breed now so commonly has.

(her back legs don't usually turn in like that, it's just how she's stood!)

Now she's a nice little dog - I can't stand the teeny tiny legs they seem to be breeding onto them at the moment

 

[Girlracer]

Now she's a nice little dog - I can't stand the teeny tiny legs they seem to be breeding onto them at the moment

I totally agree with you, she is such an active intelligent little dog. She takes almost as much "keep busy" as my collie. I hate seeing the ones that struggle to walk up the street with their bellies near enough on the floor.

I would love to see more Dachshunds like her.

 

[mynutmeg]

I totally agree with you, she is such an active intelligent little dog. She takes almost as much "keep busy" as my collie. I hate seeing the ones that struggle to walk up the street with their bellies near enough on the floor.

I would love to see more Dachshunds like her.

that's impressive - collies are so smart!!
Totally agree about those can't walk

 

[Girlracer]

that's impressive - collies are so smart!!
Totally agree about those can't walk

She's not as trainable as my collie, but what my collie lacks in common sense she certainly makes up for.

She isnt the sort of small dog you could keep on your lap 24/7 though, you have to keep her brain active. But they weren't bred to be the fashion accessory they seem to be becoming though...

 

[Dizzle]

We know people that have two Dachunds, they constantly bark but the owner has explained to OH this is because they were originally bred to be guard dogs...

FFS if you don't even know what 'your' breed was bred for, I wonder!

 

[Dizzle]

I always fancied a Manchester terrier Alec. But the work has been bred right out of them and my OH was not keen. He says the same with most Border terriers too.

My Border's parents belonged to a builder and were both van dogs, going to site with him or spending the day in and out of the van.

My BT is now a plumbers dog, he loves going to work with OH and (during cool weather) is happy as larry in the cab of the van.

So clearly Border's are now bred to be tradesman's dogs!

 

[Dry Rot]

Hips - get rid of hip dysplasia. My collie si from working parents, not KC registered at all, a typical little farm dog, and she has bad hips and is now fairly restricted from arthritis even tho she's only 11.

Up here in the far north, we have auction sales of working sheepdogs which can be seen working on a sort of "One Man and His Dog" set up. I remember seeing one dog sold that clearly had HD and very badly so too. It was sold along with the rest, probably to a small farmer who had a few sheep and a small acreage, so the working breeds are not without the problem.

 

[mynutmeg]

Up here in the far north, we have auction sales of working sheepdogs which can be seen working on a sort of "One Man and His Dog" set up. I remember seeing one dog sold that clearly had HD and very badly so too. It was sold along with the rest, probably to a small farmer who had a few sheep and a small acreage, so the working breeds are not without the problem.

unfortunately not - you'd think they'd be more breed for function and longevity rather than fads.
I'm always amazed at the difference between 'show' bred collies and the working dogs

 

[Girlracer]

We know people that have two Dachunds, they constantly bark but the owner has explained to OH this is because they were originally bred to be guard dogs...

FFS if you don't even know what 'your' breed was bred for, I wonder!

I'm not convinced a Dachshund is the best candidate for guard dog duties lol!

Mine is extremely yappy, they do tend to be, particularly the short hairs apparently? Not sure why that would be.

 

[Dry Rot]

I'm not convinced a Dachshund is the best candidate for guard dog duties lol!

Mine is extremely yappy, they do tend to be, particularly the short hairs apparently? Not sure why that would be.

If your dog was below ground, how would you know where it was, what it was doing, and what quarry it was hunting? Barks are seldom random. They mean something, even if it is only attention seeking!

 

[Girlracer]

If your dog was below ground, how would you know where it was, what it was doing, and what quarry it was hunting? Barks are seldom random. They mean something, even if it is only attention seeking!

I know that, I just meant I'm not sure why the short hairs are perceived to be yappier than the long/rough coats? Don't know if it's true but it's what I was told before I bought her, and she is considerably noisier than the long haired I've known over the years!

It doesn't bother me anyway, she's fine at home, it's just when she gets excited!

 

[Paint Me Proud]

Havent read all the pages so sorry if someone has already posted this but here is a link to a photobucket account where someone has gathered together old photos of a variety of breeds. It makes for some interesting viewing.

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Pietoro/library/Dog Breed Historical Pictures?sort=9&page=1

 

[Dry Rot]

Anyone with experience of training and handling working dogs will tell you that there is a lot more to it than just looks. There is enough difference between the trainability and working instincts of the various strains of working dogs!

Sadly, all that is being lost. There isn't really much point in trying to have a meaningful discussion with a teetotaller about the subtle differences between the Speyside single malt whiskeys and the island malts either if he doesn't drink….

The last dogs in my kennel were exported to a friend who has the means to work them in the way they were bred for. It would have broken my heart to have seen them misused and wasted (as they would have been) here in the UK, then the working instincts bred out of them so they could become show dogs and household pets.

 

[Alec Swan]

Another good post D_R, but it doesn't address the problem. How would you see the various and all so often, distorted breeds, re-directed?

Alec.

 

[Dry Rot]

Another good post D_R, but it doesn't address the problem. How would you see the various and all so often, distorted breeds, re-directed?

Alec.

It probably can't be done. The old Fell/Lakeland/Border type terriers, for example, were bred to go down and kill the fox because they were worked where it was impossible to dig due to rocks. They were bred from dogs which had had their courage tested on badgers. No need to mention what happens if breeders tried that today -- and I am not saying it was good or bad. So I believe the best have been exported to Scandinavian counties where badger hunting with terriers is still legal.

At one time, shooting men demanded top class work from their gundogs. Now it is a numbers game and I would guess the majority of shoots just want birds picked as quickly as possible so they can get on with the next drive.

Quads have replaced sheepdogs on lowland sheep farms. If there are dogs, they do the most basic of jobs in a pretty make-do manner and the shepherd buys a ready trained dogs from a specialist breeder.

Much the same with police dogs. Today's police dog handler "does not have time to train a dog" (let alone breed one) and buys one in.

The demand now is for a "working" dog that can be a pet all summer, occasionally compete in a trial (which will have no semblance of the real thing), and then go on the show bench over the winter.

Let's face it, many of the best real working dogs are hyperactive and not suitable for keeping in the house anyway. As I said earlier, how many would recognise good dog work if they saw it or have a clue how to train for that?

So, I don't believe the problem CAN be solved. Folk generally get what they deserve in the end. I once did a straw pole of competitors' thoughts on gundog field trials. Most thought it was good fun, even sport, a day out, others said it was just a social occasion and the dogs hardly featured, etc….but not a single one mentioned anything about breed improvement, or simply retaining what has taken centuries of hard selection to achieve. Soul destroying!

I'm not looking for an argument or even asking for anyone to agree with me. I've had my fun. Those are my serious thoughts on the mater. But it is largely financial. The wealthy landed aristocrat who could afford to finance dog breeding on a large scale has disappeared. I used to be able to feed 20 or 30 dogs for the cost of collecting offal from the local abattoir but these days I'd be competing with the Chinese as everything has value and everyone wants money.