6 months on still lame, now lame on soft/ MRI options?

[Jim bob]

Hi all,

Wanting your opinions and thoughts on this please.

On the 2nd Feb this year my horse came in lame from the field. The vet came out a few days later and said he had either bruised it or it was an abscess. So we put him on box rest and poulticed for a week, nothing came from it. Farrier came out shortly after and we decided pads with filling would be the best way to support his feet. Sadly a week later he was no better, still sore and lame. Vet was back out to see if there was any improvement still sound on the soft and lame on the hard surface. A few weeks later we nerve blocked and took xrays, the nerve blocks showed it was in his foot having come sound on the first block ( though we were dealing with both fores that was lame). The xrays were clear. At the time vet mentioned possible sensitivity or foot sore as he was positive to hoof testers around his toe. ( He was on steroids for another condition at the time)

Fast forward to now. He has been barefoot for the last 6 weeks and seemed ok at the start. He has had pads on his fores on the surfaces he struggled with. I was starting to do a bit but I did to much road work and he become quite foot sore. I hadn't been doing much due to him been very foot sore so I was waiting for him to become less foot sore. Though on the surfaces he was ok on I had been walking him or doing 10 mins of riding in the school, just walking. Around the 10th of this month we trotted him up in the school and he was a little unsound apparently now on his left more then his right. I needed to trot him up yesterday but he is still very foot sore and he was bare( no boots) and wouldn't trot up on the hard. Today I trotted him up on the soft and he is actually pretty lame, head nodding every stride. Nothing in his feet ( apart from thrush) no bruising. His right fore has always had a few hoof rings around it and generally being warmer then his other fore but I put that down to him been lame a little. However I am confused that when this all started he was sound on the soft and now is lame on the soft. Even in the field he is unsound.

My old vet has left and the new vet wants to have a look at him. Has suggested ; bute, putting shoes back on and mri. However I aren't insured ( well I am but not for his fores)

So I was wondering;

If you was funding it yourself would you do it?
What are the chances that the treatment would be the same with or without the mri?
Does it show up every little detail? Aswell as the problem?
If you was me what would you do? ( PTS isn't an option)

 

[Lisa2manyponies]

sounds a little similar to my mare turned out in the end she had lammi caused by ems i should add she was lame on the hard on all 4 feet but no heat no pulses and lameness started december 28th when she was living out on basically no grass i refused to belive it was lammi when she was still lame in feb vet did x rays ( showed nothing ) nerve blocks proved it was in feet also positive to hoof testers on back feet only anyway vet tested for ems and it came back positive !

so maybe talk to your vet about about that ?

as for mri scan we have just had one done on another pony cost about £800 mri's show everything the good the bad and the ugly worth doing but you need a good vet on your side to read between the lines and know which of the 20 problems the mri shows up are causing the problem.

as a general rule i believe that if something hasn't healed with in 3 months of box rest its not going to .

hope this helps

 

[be positive]

Bute and shoes will not solve the issue, well it may give the impression it has but it will still be there, MRI may give a definitive diagnosis but at around £1200 is expensive and the treatment may well be the same but you would know exactly what the problem is, it does show a detailed view of everything inside the foot far more than xrays.

Did he just have the one nerve block originally as the last time I had one with a foot problem the vet did blocks to 3 different areas the first day to try and pin point the exact area causing the very minor lameness, we went back the next day for one more so we had a true idea of what the problem might be, nothing showed on xrays and it was concluded that he had bruising rather than ligament damage based on how he responded to the nerve blocks, he came sound fairly quickly but if he had not the next step would have been MRI, he was insured so not an issue with funding.

In your case I would probably look at doing a proper barefoot rehab, if he has thrush that will be making him land toe first to avoid the discomfort, walking around landing toe first will cause the heel to contract further and may be the cause of this current lameness, get that sorted and you may find he improves rapidly without the need for any further veterinary treatment, I certainly would not put shoes on at this stage as it will exacerbate the toe landing and do nothing to help build up the heels that he most likely needs to have a well functioning foot that can support him and enable him to be sound again.

Look at Rockley farm for examples of how a horse can come right after long term lameness.

 

[Casey76]

How bad/deep is the thrush? If it is very deep in the central sulcus it can make them *very* lame.

Can you do a CleanTrax or White Lightning treatment? "Flossing" the central sulcus with gauze to make sure there are no little stones in there, and then packing with Red Horse HoofStuff will get on top of it really quickly.

 

[ester]

My main thought is that 6 weeks is nothing when rehabbing a lame horse barefoot. In fact now is round about the time things get a bit worse as the feet start to wake up and they become footier.

Take a step back, reduce what you are doing and give him a chance. Do you have a trimmer used to rehabbing on board that can see how is feet are doing in real life?

and ditto thrush can make them pretty sore too.

 

[Jim bob]

sounds a little similar to my mare turned out in the end she had lammi caused by ems i should add she was lame on the hard on all 4 feet but no heat no pulses and lameness started december 28th when she was living out on basically no grass i refused to belive it was lammi when she was still lame in feb vet did x rays ( showed nothing ) nerve blocks proved it was in feet also positive to hoof testers on back feet only anyway vet tested for ems and it came back positive !

so maybe talk to your vet about about that ?

as for mri scan we have just had one done on another pony cost about £800 mri's show everything the good the bad and the ugly worth doing but you need a good vet on your side to read between the lines and know which of the 20 problems the mri shows up are causing the problem.

as a general rule i believe that if something hasn't healed with in 3 months of box rest its not going to .
Its more a grand for mri around here and when my boy went in in sept they did test for cushings and it came back clear/ negative.

hope this helps

Its over a grand for mri here. When we tested for cushing it came back negative.

Bute and shoes will not solve the issue, well it may give the impression it has but it will still be there, MRI may give a definitive diagnosis but at around £1200 is expensive and the treatment may well be the same but you would know exactly what the problem is, it does show a detailed view of everything inside the foot far more than xrays.

Did he just have the one nerve block originally as the last time I had one with a foot problem the vet did blocks to 3 different areas the first day to try and pin point the exact area causing the very minor lameness, we went back the next day for one more so we had a true idea of what the problem might be, nothing showed on xrays and it was concluded that he had bruising rather than ligament damage based on how he responded to the nerve blocks, he came sound fairly quickly but if he had not the next step would have been MRI, he was insured so not an issue with funding.

In your case I would probably look at doing a proper barefoot rehab, if he has thrush that will be making him land toe first to avoid the discomfort, walking around landing toe first will cause the heel to contract further and may be the cause of this current lameness, get that sorted and you may find he improves rapidly without the need for any further veterinary treatment, I certainly would not put shoes on at this stage as it will exacerbate the toe landing and do nothing to help build up the heels that he most likely needs to have a well functioning foot that can support him and enable him to be sound again.

Look at Rockley farm for examples of how a horse can come right after long term lameness.

Oh I often look at Rockley and have the book! I have ordered soe stuff for the thrush, hopefully that will help. We are looking at more soft tissue damage within the foot as hen we did nerve block last time he came sounds on the first one when we did the hoof. The only thing that is worrying me is he isn't even field sound at the moment. He does crib and was on hard ground where he cribs. Last night as he went to move away from where he cribs he did the lami stance. and leant right back on his heels then was able to move away.

My main thought is that 6 weeks is nothing when rehabbing a lame horse barefoot. In fact now is round about the time things get a bit worse as the feet start to wake up and they become footier.

Take a step back, reduce what you are doing and give him a chance. Do you have a trimmer used to rehabbing on board that can see how is feet are doing in real life?

and ditto thrush can make them pretty sore too.

My farrier is actually very against taking my boy barefoot ( vet said so) with my boy been a tb

 

[Jim bob]

How bad/deep is the thrush? If it is very deep in the central sulcus it can make them *very* lame.

Can you do a CleanTrax or White Lightning treatment? "Flossing" the central sulcus with gauze to make sure there are no little stones in there, and then packing with Red Horse HoofStuff will get on top of it really quickly.

He wont stand for cleantrax. I can floss the feet though. It is only on this one hoof he is very lame on and I don't really understand it as at the start of all this he was sound on the soft now lame on the soft.

 

[Casey76]

He wont stand for cleantrax. I can floss the feet though. It is only on this one hoof he is very lame on and I don't really understand it as at the start of all this he was sound on the soft now lame on the soft.

If he won't stand for tubbing, then White Lightning, or NT powder (No Thrush) might be your best option.

Or, you could try foot rot spray (blue or purple) - but I've found that works best after tubbing/flossing as it is drying as well as antibacterial.

 

[ester]

It's hard work with a farrier that doesn't really want to be doing it/doesn't think it will work despite all the evidence to the contrary, even for TBs!

 

[Lurfy]

You mentioned your horse was on steroids for something else. I just wanted to mention my tb got steroid induced laminitis and I would look very seriously at laminitis being responsible for his pain. My horse thankfully didn't get rotated pedal bones, but he now has to come off the grass every spring and is carefully managed throughout the year.

 

[Goldenstar]

A generalisation lamer on the soft than the hard is ligament damage .
I had one on and off unlevel on a circle with the affected limb on the outside .
We managed to get it to block to the outside of the foot .
It needed a MRI but the horse was 18 and it seemed a waste of money so I asked the vet what they would do if the horse had what they expected confirmed be MRI
They a jab to the area and twelve weeks box rest .
So that what we did and the horse came sound .
After six months lame you might be a bit up against it .

 

[Jim bob]

You mentioned your horse was on steroids for something else. I just wanted to mention my tb got steroid induced laminitis and I would look very seriously at laminitis being responsible for his pain. My horse thankfully didn't get rotated pedal bones, but he now has to come off the grass every spring and is carefully managed throughout the year.

When we xrayed him it showed nothing up. No rotation. However I know there doesn't have to be rotation for lami.

A generalisation lamer on the soft than the hard is ligament damage .
I had one on and off unlevel on a circle with the affected limb on the outside .
We managed to get it to block to the outside of the foot .
It needed a MRI but the horse was 18 and it seemed a waste of money so I asked the vet what they would do if the horse had what they expected confirmed be MRI
They a jab to the area and twelve weeks box rest .
So that what we did and the horse came sound .
After six months lame you might be a bit up against it .

We are thinking soft tissue previous vet always thought it was in the foot, but they have now left. Got vet coming today.

 

[Jim bob]

Well the vet was back out today. We nerve blocked and xrayed again ( New vet looking at my horse) And it seems he may have possibly coffin joint arthritis. She is going to compare the 2 lots of xrays that were taking around 3 months apart and call me back tomorrow.