6 yo explosive bucking

[Ernie2001]

Hello,

Looking for some advice.

I have a 6yo tb x cob x Hanoverian. I’ve owned him since about 8 months old. I spent a lot of time on groundwork, long reining etc before I broke him in as a late 4 year old.

He had always been a bit sensitive about the girth but nothing nasty, doesn’t bite/kick/put ears back just tenses and will occasionally hop about almost like a small buck. We were hacking happily no problem and a couple of times when I asked for canter on a hack he would bronc until I either came off or he ran out of room. It has got progressively worse, he has done it multiple times in the school, one day he will be fine and the next I’ll do nothing different and he will just explode into a bucking bronc. There is no warning or chance to get off or adjust anything as it’s just instant from nothing to explosive.

Last weekend he also did it on the road with me, he had never done that before and was slightly spooked by a passing motorbike (has seen plenty before and normally just jogs a couple of paces) and he just exploded in the middle of the road, I came off and was very shaken up.

I am now at the point where I don’t want to get on him as it is very unpredictable.

I have had his saddle checked, teeth checked, back xrayed (all clear, vet said would pass a vetting on the xrays), no concern from vet on any lameness. Had him checked by his physio; she found him to be tight and sensitive over his girth area so treated the issues found but he has done the behaviour since.
He was in a pro lite girth but physio suggested some horses don’t suit them so have tried him in a cottage craft fabric girth.
He also will do the behaviour when putting a roller on so think it is definitely girth area related??
I have a professional rider/horsemanship person coming out but would like to know if anyone has any similar? Advice?

I bought him as my life horse and we have come so far I don’t want to give up on him

 

[ycbm]

Has he been scoped for ulcers?

 

[Ernie2001]

I spoke at length to the vet about this as i thought that it could be a possibility. They didn’t think it could be the case as he has no other signs. I had considered treating and seeing if a difference ??‍

 

[Boulty]

Would strongly recommend asking for him to be scoped as it's about the only thing you've not ruled out & sensitivity in that area & bucking are definitely signs

 

[AmyMay]

Treat him as if he has ulcers - you have nothing to loose.

What’s he fed - any Alfa based foods?

What do you have under his saddle? And what type of saddle is it?

 

[ycbm]

I spoke at length to the vet about this as i thought that it could be a possibility. They didn’t think it could be the case as he has no other signs. I had considered treating and seeing if a difference ??‍

Oh I despair! You have a vet who has x rayed the back because of sudden violent bucking but didn't think the horse has any symptoms of ulcers?

He has two, the bucking and the girthiness. I would insist on a scope, or an omeprazole/sucralfate trial, or change vet.
.

 

[Ernie2001]

Treat him as if he has ulcers - you have nothing to loose.

What’s he fed - any Alfa based foods?

What do you have under his saddle? And what type of saddle is it?

He’s a very good doer so in summer he’s just out 24/7 and has a hay net if in at all. In winter he has chaff and a cool mix. He has also done well condition wise on this.

He wears a normal numnah, have tried more padded variety’s as well but he doesn’t seem to notice a difference. He’s in a thorogood saddle, fitted to him and it is checked 3/6 monthly depending

 

[AmyMay]

Chaff and cool mix may be too high in sugars, so worth looking at an alternative.

Also think about a sheepskin under the saddle (not too thick as it will compromise the saddle fit) and also perhaps a sheepskin girth sleeve.

Why a TB saddle specifically?

 

[Ernie2001]

Yes, he has not been on any food other than grass/hay since about March time.
I will try a sheepskin.
The saddle was fitted to him and I’ve had it checked by the saddler regularly and by other saddlers who have been happy with the fit

 

[Ernie2001]

Oh I despair! You have a vet who has x rayed the back because of sudden violent bucking but didn't think the horse has any symptoms of ulcers?

He has two, the bucking and the girthiness. I would insist on a scope, or an omeprazole/sucralfate trial, or change vet.
.

Hi, thanks, yes my next plan was to scope however i was unsure whether to scope or treat for response (he is not insured) I will contact the vets

 

[dixie]

I spoke at length to the vet about this as i thought that it could be a possibility. They didn’t think it could be the case as he has no other signs. I had considered treating and seeing if a difference ??‍

what! He’s girthy and bucking, what more signs do you need.
vets make me cross when they say this. The horse can look spectacular but still have ulcers.
I would treat him as if he does have ulcers by starting at looking at your feed and trying some supplements. Unfortunately they are hundreds and it’s a matter of trial and error. Scoping sounds horrible but it’s pretty straight forward.

 

[stangs]

The above and I’d take a rain check on getting a professional rider in until he’s been scoped.

 

[Ernie2001]

Ok, thank you, this was my thought too but then the vet said she wasn’t convinced as he was so well otherwise (good coat, weight appetite)
Sometimes I feel it’s me overthinking but it has put my mind at rest that others immediately think the same thing re the ulcers so will look into it

 

[ycbm]

I wish fewer vets had no idea that most horses with ulcers look a good weight, with a good coat and have a good appetite.

I hope it will be that easy for you, if a tad expensive.
.

 

[BBP]

This picture is right before my guy scoped for ulcers. I think he looks pretty good, nice coat, doesn’t look poor, lived out in company 24/7, access to hay. No hard feed. Don’t let your vets tell you they have to look a certain way to have ulcers.

 

[Ernie2001]

This picture is right before my guy scoped for ulcers. I think he looks pretty good, nice coat, doesn’t look poor, lived out in company 24/7, access to hay. No hard feed. Don’t let your vets tell you they have to look a certain way to have ulcers.View attachment 80489

Thank you, your guy certainly looks good which helps me believe that ulcers are a definite possibility. I am going to call vets first thing and discuss.

 

[sbloom]

Any sheepskin is thick enough to affect the fit, and a saddle tipping back is the most common reason for it to be the cause of this sort of behaviour. A thicker pad usually tips a saddle back more, so don't try it without checking with your saddle fitter. I agree that ulcers are the number one suspect here though.

 

[teddy_]

If you're not insured, it might just be easier to try the ulcer treatment (GastroGard or, similar) and see if it makes a difference - if your vet will allow this!

If you were insured, you'd definitely have to scope first otherwise insurers won't touch an ulcer case.

 

[Slightlyconfused]

Ok, thank you, this was my thought too but then the vet said she wasn’t convinced as he was so well otherwise (good coat, weight appetite)
Sometimes I feel it’s me overthinking but it has put my mind at rest that others immediately think the same thing re the ulcers so will look into it

My very well covered appy was suddenly spooking and spinning and girthy.

Vet came out and we got him scoped for ulcers. He had grade two and hindgut uclers.

He did not loose weight or condition or any other just the above


Scope then see what happens.

 

[Upthecreek]

Thousands of horses with ulcers go undiagnosed because they don’t display all of the classic symptoms. I’ve seen several in fantastic condition with shiny coats get scoped only to find they have grade 4 ulcers. And the reason they got so bad as grade 4 is because the vets didn’t think it could be ulcers because the horses hadn’t lost condition. I would definitely scope before any more investigations and I would be very surprised if the horse doesn’t have ulcers.

 

[asmp]

Hi, thanks, yes my next plan was to scope however i was unsure whether to scope or treat for response (he is not insured) I will contact the vets

Scoping isn‘t that expensive if I remember rightly (ours turned out to have a ”very clean stomach”.) It cost us a bit more than normal as we opted to have horse stay over night at vets while fasting as we didn’t fancy loading a hangry horse!

 

[GrassChop]

I would have definitely said ulcers too. I'm shocked the vets disagreed with this.

 

[Polos Mum]

I believe scoping will only be able to see then in certain areas - not all. They can have a clear scope and still have ulcers.

As he is uninsured I would consider a course of treatment to start with and skip the scope. If there is no change in behaviour you can continue your search - if there is an improvement you can carry on with treatment.

 

[Bellaboo18]

I believe scoping will only be able to see then in certain areas - not all. They can have a clear scope and still have ulcers.

As he is uninsured I would consider a course of treatment to start with and skip the scope. If there is no change in behaviour you can continue your search - if there is an improvement you can carry on with treatment.

The scope can see stomach ulcers but not hindgut ulcers. The problem with not scoping and treating is the scope is the cheap bit, the treatment far more expensive.
I'd scope and see what you're working with.

 

[PeterNatt]

Whatever the cost I would get him referred by a vet to a specialist veterinary practice/hospital and get him completely checked out including checked for ulcers and kissing spines so that you get to the bottom of any medical isues he may have.

 

[Puzzled]

Ulcers!!! And change your vet!!

 

[Ernie2001]

Thanks all.
Going to go down the ulcers route and hopefully get some answers ??

 

[Bellaboo18]

Thanks all.
Going to go down the ulcers route and hopefully get some answers ??

Good luck and let us know how you get on.
I'll just say this; you know your horse better than any vet, don't be afraid to insist you know something is wrong xx