7 MONTH OLD PUPPY- HELP!

Alec Swan said:
amymay, I understand your doubts, really I do, but how do you think that a "Training Class" will help with the management of a wilful puppy who's behaviour, whilst in the home, isn't acceptable?

Horse and cart springs to mind. I'd suggest that when the puppy has learned some manners, and understands its place within the home, then that may be the time for training classes.

Puppies that learn how to be compliant from an early age, tend not to challenge later on in life, but when they do, they need to acquire the knack of listening, when they're spoken too. ;)

These are just my views, and I don't expect you to agree with me!!

Alec.
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tbf Alec a god training class should begin by ascertaining exactly how things are in the home and equipping the new owner with the correct knowledge and skills to create a harmonious relationship. Then formal training can begin.

That said, therein lies one of the main reasons I stick to training my own dogs these days... 99% of people sign up expecting you to train the dog for them and not to have to put in any work in between classes. People come along expecting to learn sit/stay/down/recalls etc etc but to do that they need to have the foundations in place; the basic respect - as you say ‘i speak , you listen’ and motivation to work for the owner. People think that happens naturally and with some very lucky ones it does, but in most cases its up to the new owner to convince their dog that actually, yes I am the most interesting thing in your world and it’s me you pay attention to. Teaching that to some owners in itself can take several weeks and Id often advise leaving the dog at home;)
 
Im going to sound like a flower compared to you lot :D

But really OP, I would personally suggest that you dont scruff, nor shake your dog. Every time someone says to me "well this is what they do in the wild" - alrighty. We are not in the wild and we are not dogs. Just consistency, IMO, is what you need. It is hard to say without knowing the ins-and-outs of what she is doing. I would say if a time out works, then be consistent with that. She will learn that her outbursts get her no-where.
As you have already been told, the shouting etc is pointless and will not help you.

I would never, ever advise a pet dog owner to scruff their dog. She is still young, and clearly sensitive - you can quickly make a dog hand-shy. A hand-shy dog may never bite its owner - but the tension is there. My dad whacked and scruffed my older dog when he was a puppy to correct him - which worked - but he did often whince if he was suddenly touched - or a hand came down to stroke him too fast. I don't want that.

A good training class can tell you about good handling - not just the recalls and sits. So many people come along to our classes and thinks the sun shines out of their puppies backside - but to me, the thing is a little gob****e. Which just made me wonder OP whether there is more to it than just a tantrum because he cant get on the couch - maybe there are other aspects to his life where he gets away with things - you think is acceptable simoly because he hasnt reacted to you saying "no" yet? I hope to god that makes sense Im on my mobile and am just waffling away as the words enter my brain :D

In a nutshell - when I work with small puppies and small dogs - I train them in the same way I'd train a giant rottie if I was 6 stone. I try not to rely on physical strength just becuase the dog is smaller & therefore I can. Waffle over!
 
^^^ I see what you're saying stargirl and agree that advice from people who've seen the dog is probably the most accurate but for that very reason,I think it was necessary to scruff my pup-i could see it was necessary to stop him becoming the bolshy little gob*****e I think he would become if not! I've never had to do it to any other dog we've had and the pertinent fact is that he is,by far,the boldest,cockiest pup we've ever had. My family were quite amazed by him. Two vets have commented how confident and bullish he is (the first at his 10wk jab). I've had to adjust my training& discipline to fit. I most certainly do not want him to be/grow up to be scared of me but I do insist he respects me and my commands. The rest of the time,yes,he lives a life of luxury,hogging the fire,racing around 12acres playing with his pointer,lab & spaniel friends and has a massive array of toys and expensive food to eat. If he tries to stick 2fingers up at me when I tell him off the sofa,he can expect his collar/scruff to get felt...it's a fair cop! ;D
 
We have an Airedale and went through something similar at about this age. Eventually we found ignoring her worked best. I know this is the total OPPOSITE of what you are "supposed" to do, but I honestly had enough of her and just walked out of the room and left her for five minutes, went somewhere she couldn't see me. She had a winge and a moan and when she stopped that I came back. I think she realised she pushed it too far and it was attention she wanted, not dominance over me or control over the sofa or whatever way you want to look at it. Me shouting at her etc was still, effectively, giving her what she wanted and was completely counter productive. She would shout back and it went on and on. Once she realised that life was more fun when none of us were shouting or being bossy she stopped being such a diva about things.

This could be an entirely different situation you are in, and you might think "this won't work" or "this bubbilygum is a total doggy dunce" and that's fine, but it worked for us (and Airedales are notoriously stubborn!)

Don't bother asking about how we taught her recall though, that's a work in progress (and she's 20 months old now :rolleyes:).
 
We tried fluffy methods with Zak then found a new trainer who has very old fashioned ideas. He has advocated that another owner hit his dog, but not ours. He has taught us to check very firmly with a choke chain and to expect total obedience. We had months of going through a really difficult time with Zak and whilst he's certainly not 100% perfect, the harsh methods have worked. I think we've gone as far as we can with this guy and it's time to find another trainer to progress him.

I digress. If the OP comes back on, I'd suggest utter consistency. You wouldn't teach one canter aid to a youngster then allow someone else to use another, would you? Firm, fair, occasional treats, say no and mean it, get your mother on board and don't give the dog different aids/instructions. Physical aids can be useful, but can also lead to aggression.

She's young, don't confuse her and don't blame her if two people let her do different things and give her different instructions.
 
Hi, I have skim read and whilst I don't disagree with any advice. I do belive in such instanes the OP really does need someone to demonstrate how best to control the behaviour. I am there in the room):D and itching to step in to show you your wrong doings (in the nicest way):p but with this there is no doubt I/other trainers/advisors would need to ask alot of questions/meet the dog and see how you manage the dog.
when using vocals or hndlin you ned to be confident and consistant otherwise the dog sees you as a play budddy to stem it's boredom an bcause it wasall cute when he was a baby and h no longer is and he is big enough and energeic enough to be acting more like tigegr in your home (it's now becoming a issue) and this is why I alway bang on about (starting as you mean to go on);) and not creating such behaviours or encouraging them for the only to esculate.
I can see how he now sees this as a game and how he thrives on the attention he gets from it and the audience he draws and how frustrated you are getting. It is easily fixed but I don't see you being able to do it from written advice (as good as it is) cockers esp love this game;) your handling/lack of conviction will be the issue.
I also know to take such tedious issues seriously as over the past months I have worked with puppies displaying exact puppyish behaivours and it spiralling into aggression (something I would have rolled my eyes laughed off many months ago) until I saw the level of aggression these ridiculously young pups where displaying my self, funnily enough all working dogs including 2 working cockers and a patterdale the patterdale I removed from the home after she attacked the owner pretty bad) and the owner lost confidence and became terrified (in my house se is a completely different dog)

You do need guidance and training class (would be good) depending on he class!! but I do belive you need someone at home too, to meet you the dog and your mam and better advise you, time out as suggested is fab for such behaviours (but it is the manner in which you do it and weather your conviction is worthy of taking seriously) and what other behaviours as little as they seem are needing to be addressed.
Also block her before you even have to get to removing her if need be make all other chairs in accecible so if she gets on its has to be beside you where you are sitting and you are then in a better position to block her advances to jump, and offer up a alternative a (bed) i which to direct her. Don't shout or chase or prolong the method you chose) this becomes more a game he/she finds fun to participate in.

Where are you based?
 
Wow, I am overwhelmed by the number of suggestions from you all! Thanks a lot :) I wasn't able to log on last night but have enjoyed reading them all this morning.

For those who suggest a good training class, she has been going since she has been able weekly to a reputable training school in the area. I have discussed her behaviour with our trainer and she has witnessed it first hand. Her advise and what we are trained follows "Don't do that, do this" which is why when she throws her tantrums (for want of a better word) instead of attempting to tell her off normally a quick "Down" suffices.

I do agree though we need to be more consistent and am trying to get my mum to go to training with her so she can also learn the methods that have been taught to us. She currently watches but doesn't want to actually do it because she is scared of being rubbish, for me an even better reason to take part!

Its reassuring to hear other people have had experiences with puppies of her age so she isn't the only one! Like I said before she is such an angel and a pleasure to be around 90% of the time I just want it back to 100% of the time :)
 
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