700 Dartmoor ponies shot :(

Very sad news...but IMHO a bloody big pat on the back for those owners who had the courage and sense to take this option rather than having the ponies ending up in the live export meat trade.
 
Sad but sensible. They have had a better life than most cattle and sheep bred for meat and there are far worse fates than being quickly shot. Hopefully it will be the wakeup call needed.
 
at least they wont be shunted from pillar to post. they will never be mistreated or under fed or not looked after properly. sadly so, but a very sensible caring decision.
 
Bet they don't get penalised at all for this. There are NO repercussions whatsoever for over breeding. Therefore there is nothing to discourage it. They can carry on without fear of anything happening to them. Same goes for the sports horse industry. In the end - it is the animals that suffer. More than 700-ponies dead, including foals who never had the chance of being ponies. I have no praise for the farmers at all. It was their own damned fault the problem arose in the first place.

Disgusting!!
 
Bloody annoys me all the overbreeding. TAKE RESPONSIBILITY. sadly the ones responsible take the cattle/sheep attitude with breeding ponies but they arent meat animals, not in this country anyway.

many many animals end up being slaughtered before they have a long happy life, think its called the meat industry.
 
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Why don't the Dartmoor National Park take some steps to prevent this? Why don't they stop stallions being run on the moor? If they are anything like the Exmoor National Park - tourism and a good public image are what is most important to them so surely stories like this would make them act?

It is a great shame that the ponies on Dartmoor are not pure, mostly shetland crosses now, otherwise owners might take a bit more pride in their breeding - like the Exmoors. However having said that, Exmoors fetch as little as £50 (and less) at the sales :( Unbelieveably really for a recognised rare breed.

Better to be shot though than end up in France being sold for their skin to make handbags in Italy :(
 
Over2You said:
Bet they don't get penalised at all for this. There are NO repercussions whatsoever for over breeding. Therefore there is nothing to discourage it. They can carry on without fear of anything happening to them. Same goes for the sports horse industry. In the end - it is the animals that suffer. More than 700-ponies dead, including foals who never had the chance of being ponies. I have no praise for the farmers at all. It was their own damned fault the problem arose in the first place.

Disgusting!!
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the problem is you are looking at them as pets instead of livestock, if it said 700 lambs killed humanely for meat you would say, yeah and? but because its a pony..... much better than live export, well done to these farmers for makeing the right decision rather than shipping them off on a journey of hell, i want to see hill ponys on the moor and with out ways of manageing the population the farmers will soon stop keeping them.
 
I agree with Over2You.

The New Forest have a great way of managing their herds. These farmers need to be equally responsible and then this wouldn't happen.

Definitely agree that being PTS is far better than an exhausting arduous journey to a foreign slaughter house. Sooner the indiscriminate breeding of horses stops the better.
 
Over2You said:
Bet they don't get penalised at all for this. There are NO repercussions whatsoever for over breeding. Therefore there is nothing to discourage it. They can carry on without fear of anything happening to them. Same goes for the sports horse industry. In the end - it is the animals that suffer. More than 700-ponies dead, including foals who never had the chance of being ponies. I have no praise for the farmers at all. It was their own damned fault the problem arose in the first place.

Disgusting!!
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Sadly, this is very true. Stop the horrendous levels of overbreeding, then there won't be any need to shoot 700+ ponies!
 
Traditionally these moorland feral ponies were viewed as a crop, by those who farm the land, and quite rightly so. They have come to form an important part of the ecology of those moors, and previously supplied a modest income.

The income seems to have evaporated, in part because of the recession. I would imagine that those who own these ponies, have found it difficult to apply correct and previous management policies, because there has been virtually no market for their produce.

If stallions were to be turned out with the mares, but for a limited period, they would then have an established foaling period, the horses gathered at weaning, and those which fail to enter the ridden horse band, could be offered for legitimate slaughter. It's how we manage other livestock.

I realise that there are many who view the slaughter of horses, for meat, as an abhorrence, but without an end use for those foals which are born, then the very well being of the herds, and importantly the land which they graze, will be in jeopardy.

It seems to me that if a market were available, for carcasses and hides, then those who already do their very best for their charges, would be given a fresh impetus, to the benefit of all.

Some of the quoted 700 horses will probably end up in zoos, as feed for carnivores, but the disposal costs of the wastage, the gut, skins, bones etc. will be huge. Those for which a use can't be found for, will be incinerated, again at a massive cost.

Better I think, to find a commercial use for them, and to give the owners, the land, and importantly the ponies, a realistic future.

Alec.
 
Alec Swan said:
Traditionally these moorland feral ponies were viewed as a crop, by those who farm the land, and quite rightly so. They have come to form an important part of the ecology of those moors, and previously supplied a modest income.

The income seems to have evaporated, in part because of the recession. I would imagine that those who own these ponies, have found it difficult to apply correct and previous management policies, because there has been virtually no market for their produce.

If stallions were to be turned out with the mares, but for a limited period, they would then have an established foaling period, the horses gathered at weaning, and those which fail to enter the ridden horse band, could be offered for legitimate slaughter. It's how we manage other livestock.

I realise that there are many who view the slaughter of horses, for meat, as an abhorrence, but without an end use for those foals which are born, then the very well being of the herds, and importantly the land which they graze, will be in jeopardy.

It seems to me that if a market were available, for carcasses and hides, then those who already do their very best for their charges, would be given a fresh impetus, to the benefit of all.

Some of the quoted 700 horses will probably end up in zoos, as feed for carnivores, but the disposal costs of the wastage, the gut, skins, bones etc. will be huge. Those for which a use can't be found for, will be incinerated, again at a massive cost.

Better I think, to find a commercial use for them, and to give the owners, the land, and importantly the ponies, a realistic future.

Alec.
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well said, it makes me cross when i see mares HUGE with foal in oct/sept, they are going to foal in the middle of the winter.... manageing the stallions on the moor should be more proactive.
 
Here's a (fact-filled) piece from the Independent in 1998, when the bottom had supposedly dropped out of the pony market. There's another Daily Mail piece from 2001 telling the same story. It's not like they didn't have notice...

I think they have to decide what they're breeding these ponies for, and operate it like a business. Is it for conservation? If so, they could learn something from people like the Norfolk Wildlife Trust who keep and manage pony herds (ie monitor their health closely and geld/vasectomise as appropriate). Is it for zoo meat? OK, well make sure there's a feasible market for all you produce, or else trim production. Is it for ponyskin? Slaughter them here rather than letting them be shipped to Italy. Is it as children's riding ponies? Invest in worming and the labour of handling them so that they're worth it.
 
well i think it is a national disgrace, they should be ashamed of themselves, horses, i my opinion are not meat animals, it should be stopped by the government, where are they in all these things? too busy robbing the nation from their expenses, living in a sodding dream world while things like this go on, they should get out in the REAL world and put an end to these disgusting scenarios, if they can make the effort with all the cuts they think necessary to save the economy why the hell can't they sort out a few idiots who cause so much suffering, nothing anyone says will change my opinion, i"ve seen too much and every life is life and valuable beyond our conception and judgement, to start a foals life and shoot it at weaning is totally wrong.
if they can't practice proper horse management, and that includes castrating males and take responsibility for the creation of unwanted lives as needed, they should be banned from owning horses... as of NOW
 
Ditto long term plan put in to place as well our local cat and dog shelter neuters males and females and have put the adoption fee up and this was implemented years ago and locally there is a difference , why cant they do this i suppose its all down to money as well , such a shame at least it was done humanely and they didnt suffer on a allotment or transported around the sales (
 
Its these so called 'breeders' that ought to be culled. if the ponies on the moor were a good standard of dartmoor it would be better but there are nondescript type crossbreeds. there is no breeding programme in place. I'm sure the moor wouldn't take any harm for having a few less ponies grazing it.

the haflinger sociery geld/cull colts that are not of certain standard.

the overbreeding needs to be stopped.:mad:
 
the whole point is they should"nt be bred in the first place. it"s not good enough to say its better to shoot them the word better is used is the wrong context.
 
It is sad but better than traveling miles in bad conditions.

I have a feeling that the dartmoor hill ponies are just random ponies who happen to live and breed on dartmoor as opposed to a registered breed.

Registered dartmoor ponies did very well at HOYs this year and are popular as child's and small adults ponies.

I don't know how the stallions that run on dartmoor as chosen, are they registered dartmoor stallions approved by the dartmoor pony society? Is there any regulation to prevent interbreeding?

I do think it is important to preserve native ponies living in their natural mountain and moorland environments as they are an important part of the hertitage of many of our competition ponies and horses, but the stallions running out should at be least good quality examples of their breed and registered with the relevant breed society.
 
As it's already been stated it's about time the farmers took responsibility and were fined for leaving or even putting stallions on the moor. They should be kept at the farm and only bred with chosen mares and limited even then.:mad: The breeding of any on the moor should be halted for at least 3 years, then selective (you never know may even get back to a true Dartmoor:) I do not agree with culling where the farmer has not taken steps to prevent. The farmer should be heavily fined from now on. As someone stated it's not as though this has just happened they have been aware of all this cross breeding and over breeding for years.:mad:
 
I guess that might be a big part of the problem along with it being winter and a recession so it is harder to sell even quality ponies.

My NF gelding used to be a forest run stallion and he had to be approved by the breed society and the people who manage the forest before he was allowed to be turned out on the forest. Even if I say it myself he is a quality pony, he has been well placed at the breed show and at a county show and his offspring are doing well too, with one of his sons now approved as a forest run stallion.

If the stallions are not good quality then you could end up with poor quality stock that no-one wants which is sad and does not need to be the case.

nativetyponies said:
I doubt it very much, SO1....i was at Sedgemoor sales begining of the year, and a stallion came through the ring...it was proudly announced that he had run on dartmoor for the previous 6 years...i have honestly not seen an animal with worse conformation than this chap...he was horendous.....and quite rightly, was bought by the "meatman"..sadly, his offspring may well be on the market next spring...
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I read recently that Dartmoor National Park Authority want MORE ponies on the moor to manage the grazing. You might be interested in reading http://www.dartmoorhillpony.com/news.html this page to see what is being planned, money permitting. As for why they say they need to breed, the following quote comes from the above linked page. I don't know enough about it to make an informed judgment on these arguments, but at least the DHPA are trying to do something to help.

"The various herds are all owned and managed by farmers but to ensure that
the ponies do not group together to form one big herd and therefore graze
the moor unevenly, the use of stallions is vital as they keep their own
mares to their own 'lear' and do not stray to other areas therefore ensuring
that grazing levels are balanced all over the moor. Therefore it is not
possible to simply "stop" breeding unless valid forms of contraception could
be introduced. However, these methods are still being trialed in the USA and
Australia and are unlikely to be implemented any time soon as we were hoping
for funding from Natural England."
 
That may well be the case but it does not mean they have to use poor quality stallions, if the natural england are going to give them some funding and they have to have stallions why not invest in some quality registered dartmoor stallions?

why do the stallions need to be out all year - in the new forest they do not stay out all year.


suestowford said:
I read recently that Dartmoor National Park Authority want MORE ponies on the moor to manage the grazing. You might be interested in reading http://www.dartmoorhillpony.com/news.html this page to see what is being planned, money permitting. As for why they say they need to breed, the following quote comes from the above linked page. I don't know enough about it to make an informed judgment on these arguments, but at least the DHPA are trying to do something to help.

"The various herds are all owned and managed by farmers but to ensure that
the ponies do not group together to form one big herd and therefore graze
the moor unevenly, the use of stallions is vital as they keep their own
mares to their own 'lear' and do not stray to other areas therefore ensuring
that grazing levels are balanced all over the moor. Therefore it is not
possible to simply "stop" breeding unless valid forms of contraception could
be introduced. However, these methods are still being trialed in the USA and
Australia and are unlikely to be implemented any time soon as we were hoping
for funding from Natural England."
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Sad?

SAD?

It's a blinking national tragedy! Pure Dartmoor ponies are rarer than Giant Pandas!!!! If someone announced they'd just shot 700+ young pandas, there'd be outrage! International agencies would come down on those responsible like a tonne of bricks! Heads would roll, and roll and roll...

But because they're Dartmoor Ponies, on the critically endangered list of the Rare Breed Survival Trust, it's okay.

As for grazing, ponies are much pickier grazers than sheep and cattle, so much better for natural parks. A few near us have bought exmoor ponies for that exact purpose.

Breed them pure and breed with pride, else you might as well sign the death warrant of the whole breed.

From the ex-owner of a stubborn, badly behaved right royal pain in the arse - from dartmoor.
 
SO1 said:
That may well be the case but it does not mean they have to use poor quality stallions, if the natural england are going to give them some funding and they have to have stallions why not invest in some quality registered dartmoor stallions?
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I'm guessing lack of money or lack of available stallions? Or maybe they don't know what makes a good stallion? I don't know.

SO1 said:
why do the stallions need to be out all year - in the new forest they do not stay out all year.
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I don;t know that either - I was kind of hoping someone on here would know why. Seeing as there are so many knowledgeable folk about.
 
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