9mth Lab puppy with severy hip dysplasia

[Imogen Rose]

Hello everyone,

Just had some devastating news. Had pups hips x-rayed under full anaesthetic. He has the worst case of hip dysplacia in a dog my vet has ever seen, he was visably shocked.

Pups is on pain meds and anti inflamatories which seem to be helping for now. He has been on short lead only walks for a while now, and is on a very low protien diet.

I have done lots of research on the various surgeries and drug therapies.

Please can someone tell me this is not a death sentance for my puppy? I dont want him to live a life of pain, and my dad dosent think he should have surgery as he dosent think it is fair.

Do dogs make a good recovery? How long could he live for not in pain?

If we dont do surgery, how long are we looking at before his pain isnt acceptable?

A bit devastated really. He is the first posh lab we have ever owned. At number 5 we decided to ddo it the usual way and choose a breeder with a good reputation, find parents with good hipscores etc... the previous 4 are rescues and a pet mating with no health tests and are healthy as horses... cant do right for doing wrong it seems.

Sorry for the length of post... many thanks for reading x

 

[Clodagh]

That is so sad.
It has to be up to you about the surgery, I wouldn't but it is an individual choice. I would be thinking what life is it for a pup to have to walk quietly on the lead, too much pain to play, not allowed to run and be silly.
If you decide to keep him going, with or without surgery, make sure you have a neutral person assessing his wellbeing, it is easy to be caught up in emotion and convince yourself they are doing fine.
Thinking of you, what an awful thingt o have to deal with.

 

[s4sugar]

That is so sad.
It has to be up to you about the surgery, I wouldn't but it is an individual choice. I would be thinking what life is it for a pup to have to walk quietly on the lead, too much pain to play, not allowed to run and be silly.
If you decide to keep him going, with or without surgery, make sure you have a neutral person assessing his wellbeing, it is easy to be caught up in emotion and convince yourself they are doing fine.
Thinking of you, what an awful thingt o have to deal with.

Absolutely.
I would do the same as although the operation can be done should it be done? Vets are often quick to suggest hip replacements but don't consider te long term effects.

Have you contacted the breeder & the breed club?

 

[CorvusCorax]

Did you see the plates/take a photo of the plates on your phone?

 

[s4sugar]

Did you see the plates/take a photo of the plates on your phone?

Good point - not all vets take acceptable plates nor can they read them.

 

[CorvusCorax]

That's what I was thinking - not meaning to be cynical or give you false hope but I have heard some near horror stories of dogs scheduled for major surgery which did not require it.

A member on here posted plates from a very doom and gloom prognosis - the positioning of the legs by the vet and the quality of the x-rays was shocking.

 

[lachlanandmarcus]

My border terrier was diagnosed with very very bad dysplasia at 6 months and we were told both hip balls such as they were would need removing :-O the x rays were awful.

In prep for the op we used Synoquin MSM and glucosamine and also did a course of hydrotherapy.

At the end of 3 months she was sound and re x rayed and the x rays showed the muscle theta had developed was supporting the joint.

This dog is now 11 years old and hasn't had a lame day in her life since then. We do limit her exercise and make sure she stays reasonably slim.

I'm not saying the vets are wrong but with a diagnosis at a young age when the dog isn't fully developed yet then it is possible that the approach we used might also produce dramatic results.

I would never have done this approach for so long if she was in any seeming pain. And the ops would have been covered by insurance so it wasn't a money thing. NB labs are heavier than terries so it MIGHT not work as well, but may be worth trying before an op provided that doesn't mean any insurance time limits run out.

 

[hippo66hippo66]

Hi

Our rottie was diagnosed when she was around 8 months old - we were sent to a hip specialist by our vet after we had asked for a second opinion. I was sure that he would advise us to PTS as our own vet had done and was in bits but the guy was very realistic with us - his waiting room was full of rotties at various stages both pre and post op.

At this point she was too young for the surgery so he advised us to take her home use the pain killers if needed, short walks etc and see how she got on - we decided to put her on a joint supplement as well, he also asked that we monitor her weight to make sure that she didn't get over weight as this could stress the joints.

She was on the joint supplement for the rest of her life but she was fine - we watched her especially when the weather was cold and damp but she coped with it and would bounce around the garden like a puppy - we always agreed that if she started suffering then we would PTS

Please don't think that this is the end - is there a specialist that you could ask to be sent to? Your puppy is only young and is still developing just like our girl was.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Call me old fashioned but 8-9 months is way too early to diagnose a doom and gloom scenario requiring a big surgery, especially in a large, late maturing breed, when the joints have not even finished forming properly.

 

[blackcob]

It depends on what is meant by 'severe' hip dysplasia really. I recently encountered a similar aged dog which had the most unbelievable x-ray - it almost had no hips at all, just a rough jagged mess where ball and sockets should have been. It was already in significant pain, unable to rise without assistance and only mobile for short distances. That particular dog would almost certainly not have any quality of life without surgery.

As above, a milder case may improve simply with age (or by benefit of better x-rays!) but also be manageable with painkillers, suitable exercise, supplementation etc.

Most of your questions are best answered by your vet or, if you're not 100% convinced their treatment plan is best, ask to be referred to a specialist for a second opinion (which may or may not involve surgery, don't panic just yet ).

FWIW I know dogs with bilateral hip replacements and they seem to do very well. My own dog has a big chunk of titanium holding one of her knees together and she's returned to work as a sled dog and competes in agility, the big orthopaedic ops really can have fantastic results these days.

 

[Allfourfeet]

It's certainly not the end of the road. I'm with everyone else defiantly give him some more time, as sometimes it does plateau between 1-2 years. My first dog was diagnosed at 8 months with also 'worst case of HD my vet has ever seen'. We ended up going for surgery BUT only after we had exhausted other options.

We first tried numerous painkillers to try keep him comfy to see if as he grew they would be more supported but we never managed to control him pain, he was that bad. It was truly heartbreaking. It was at this point we first considered pts as I couldn't watch him be in pain. We then tried the prescription diet and hydrotherapy. Also made no difference except make him in more pain. It was then I ask for a referral to a specialist. At this point he was 12 months, he was in pain, couldn't go go for even a short lead walk, couldn't play with his toys, and literally walked on four tracks with his feet his gait was that affected.

Specialist lined up our options; pts, hip replacement or femoral head ostectomy. Now I love my dog, he's e apple of my eye and I will always put his best interests first and after ALOT of questions and research we opted for he double femoral head ostectomy. We ruled out pts when the specialist believed he could have a decent quality of life afterwards, as this was my main worry, so I couldn't not give him a chance.. We also opted for the FHO over the hip replacement as he believed it would be better for his build and there wouldn't be a huge difference in his mobility afterwards between them.

All I can say if it's the best hardest decision I've ever made. It was hard, heartbreaking and soul destroying at times, after each hip (he had them done separately) he struggled, but now.. Approaching two years old he is the happiest dog I've ever had. He can finally run for hrs, jump on the sofa, is completely off any medication and it's made every second worth it. Many people would of pts but the way I see it is he's now happy, pain free and hopefully has many, many happy years a head if him.

 

[Saneta]

Is it possible to ask for a referral to a specialist orthopeadic vet, for them to do some thorough testing before torturing yourself with possible scenarios? 9 months is very young. If you had a bitch and were considering breeding from her, you wouldn't have hips x-rayed until she was properly formed, say at least 18 months would you?

Your final comments about choosing the right pup from parents with good hip scores, really made me sad. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme nor reason to it all does there? I guess the parents having good hip scores can only act as a guide as to how the pups will develop. In the last few weeks, I know 2 beautiful fit and healthy Labs having to go through the cruciate operation, with the aftercare being even more of a problem. We can only ever try our best, and support when things go wrong...
Good luck OP, please let us know how you get on.

 

[Nicnac]

Firstly, I'd go to a specialist unit such as Fitzpatrick Referrals in Goldalming or the one I took my Bernese to in Bletchingley Surrey (North Downs Specialist Referrals) and get them to look at the plates you had taken. From there take their advice as to best next steps.

Having had 4 Bernese Mountain Dogs I unfortunately have some experience of HD. My second berner was the runt of the litter and her right hip was partially dislocated at birth and the joint was deformed. She had a femoral head ostectomy at the age of 4 months and lived until she was 11. Yes she was always a bit wonky but pain-free and we did quite a bit of hydrotherapy with her to keep her soft tissue strong. She was uninsured. She was also the sweetest dappiest Bernese I have ever known.

My current dog is rising 8 and comes from the same line as my 3rd one - all animals with excellent hip and elbow scores going way back. Unfortunately his near elbow and offside hip are "the worst I've ever seen" according to a vet from xrays taken when he was 18 months. I took him to NDSR for an MRI to find his cervical vertebrae were also impinging - think kissing spines equivalent. We discussed all the options (he was insured at the time) and decided with the specialists to leave him as he is. With careful management and physio he has had a great life. As he is now getting on a bit I do have him on low levels of Metacam just to keep him comfortable.

There are so many options nowadays and it's not necessarily the end of the road for your girl. Good luck!

 

[Imogen Rose]

Hi, sorry I havent replied sooner, I have been at university.
Thanks for all your experiences and information.
I unfortunately didn't get to see the x-rays as my mum went with him. I will suggest that she gets him referred to that specialist in godalming, they will have a better idea than our local vet.
The vet was very pushy for the surgery from the sounds of it, so I will have to make sure they arnet being rushed into a decision. He is fully insured so it dosen't matter money wise what we do.
I have been giving them loads of information from the internet about their options, but it is nice to hear other peoples successes.

I have phoned the breeder and told the couple, they were really really upset and apologetic but it isnt their fault. they were going to breed from his litter sister so are obviously now concerned.

We got him x-rayed because he had the bunny hop walk and couldnt trot, and he needed painkillers for his legs. Now that he is on them his pain is much more controlled, and he has started to 'trot'. He still playes in the garden and around the house like a madman, and when he is too tired to run he turns upside down and bites the older boy on his chest and hangs of his neck for fun...they both seem to love it so he hasnt lost his sparkle yet.I really appreciate everyones replies, last night it was a bit heart breaking!x

 

[Goldenstar]

One of our pups from our dog had hip dysphasia she showed mild lameness at 18 months the vet was shocked by the X-rays as both parents had good scores and had where tough sound dogs it was all doom and gloom .
The ops etc where not aviable then we never let her follow the horses we never let her jump except into the car apart from that she lived a normal life until dieing of a stroke in her teens having never shown significant lameness .

 

[satinbaze]

Kennel club/bva hip scores are not done until the dog is at least 12 months old. This is due to the growth plates not being mature until then. Personally I would ask the breed club for recommendation of vets that do regular hip scoring and the. Have him scored properly at 12 months. A friend of mind had her FCR crated at 8 months as he was lame to be told v bad hips. Took him to a vet that foes regular hip scores plates sent off for official scores came back as 5:3 =8 but had v bad slipping patella.
Good luck and hope hour dog is okay

 

[Aru]

bva scoring and hip scoring a pup showing discomfort and clinical signs of hip dysplasia are two very different things.
if the image is taken right at a young age it can be seen as very obviously dysplastic if its severe as the damage build up will be there as well as the laxity points that you look for in the bva scoring scheme.damage to the joint and bone remodelling is fairly diagnostic and hard to mistake. moderate to mild cases are entirely different as muscle mass around the pelvis can change these and stabilise the area the dog ages.

mild dysplasia can wait til the dog is older and the muscle mass has a chance to build up to see will that help to stabilise the joint.

but in severe cases where there is already a large amount of damage and bone remodelling is present then time is not going to improve the integrity of the joint.more damage is likely to be going on as the pup is moving about so the issue needs to be addressed.

many of the hip dysplasia ops for pups are less invasive as they take advantage of the lack of fusion and low muscle mass present and the puppy ops are much less extreme than joint replacement or cutting off the top of the femur (femoral head osteotomy)

Op take yourself to a specialist and get all your options.the decisions made now will have an impact the rest of the pups life so you should get all the information and specialist help you can.

 

[Cinnamontoast]

Good point - not all vets take acceptable plates nor can they read them.

Tell me about it!

A member on here posted plates from a very doom and gloom prognosis - the positioning of the legs by the vet and the quality of the x-rays was shocking.

Me? I was frankly appalled at the rubbish quality, the vet didn't even block his legs, so of course the x ray looked appalling. Definitely get an expert to do x rays.

Honestly, Zak seems fine for 'normal' walks, we're careful with him and make him swim a lot in warmer weather, but I think (may change our minds) that we would consider quality of life above all if he worsened.

 

[Alec Swan]

No matter how well insured a dog of mine may be, I would never put it through the type of remedial surgery that HD would call for. It would worry me that I was acting for my benefit and my sense of worth, and not the dog's. It would worry me that the animal wouldn't understand why it was suffering. If we are to claim that we respect the animal, and that we care for it, then we have to demonstrate that by making decisions on behalf of the dog. I agree, it's difficult, but if we're to consider the animal that we care for, then that's what we do.

OP, if your vet's as convinced of the gravity of the puppy's problem, as they seem to be, then it should be obvious whilst the puppy is at a walk. The worst of hips are there to be seen by the naked eye. Xrays are superfluous.

Sometimes life's a bummer.

Alec.

 

[sheddy00]

I have had experience of 2 labs with displaysia, 1 st one we had operated she could barely walk by the time she was 10.. and she was a well built girl. 2nd dog we didn't have the op. And his xrays were far worse..was told he wouldn't be able to walk by 3 yrs old.. both went to a specialist clinic halfway across the country.. this worked for us..keep the dog very lean...Yes it's a lab and they love food..lol. plenty of swimming.ours used to swim in rivers and lakes even in the snow. He loved it. He was well muscled on his legs from swimming. Not miles of walking. But let him do what he wants to do running around. We had a very fit happy dog who only needed pain meds on the coldest of winter days.vets were amazed at his fitness/ ability. Though I did get the odd comment from vet nurses about his weight. But vet said it was the best treatment for displaysia.and wished all owners would do the same.his muscles from swimming helped hold his joints in place. So there is a bright future for you.

 

[MiniMilton]

We had a lab with severe HD. This is going back nearly 30 years now. She had first hip operated on as 1 yo (she was also hit by a car) second hip operated some months later. I don't recall how long the recovery took, but she led a long and active life, pain free for most of it, just arthritis setting in at normal age. She was PTS at 15. In hind sight she should have been PTS a lot sooner as she had other age related issues. All in all she had a good 12 years.

Not all stories will be so positive, so I just thought I'd share Sandy's story. Good luck with your pup


Eta we had a great vet

 

[Dry Rot]

A very very sad thread.

This would be a no brainer for me but then I am a hard uncaring callous farmer who balances the brief unpleasantness of a lethal injection against a life of pain and suffering for the poor bloody dog.

I am sorry if this post upsets some people but someone needs to put the other side of the equation. I just do not think it is fair on the dog and I suspect the main objections to PTS are that the humans involved will be upset and the vets will lose out on some very lucrative work.

I will now go away and crawl back under my stone.

 

[MiniMilton]

A very very sad thread.

This would be a no brainer for me but then I am a hard uncaring callous farmer who balances the brief unpleasantness of a lethal injection against a life of pain and suffering for the poor bloody dog.

I am sorry if this post upsets some people but someone needs to put the other side of the equation. I just do not think it is fair on the dog and I suspect the main objections to PTS are that the humans involved will be upset and the vets will lose out on some very lucrative work.

I will now go away and crawl back under my stone.

My dog had a happy pain free active 12 years going hill walking etc before normal age related issues set in. You would never have known she had HD or surgery. Should she have been PTS?

 

[lachlanandmarcus]

My dog had a happy pain free active 12 years going hill walking etc before normal age related issues set in. You would never have known she had HD or surgery. Should she have been PTS?

Same here except my terrier is 11 and still no signs of any issues. I'm all for PTS in the right circumstances but in our case it would have been and has been proved to be completely unnecessary.

Slightly OTT Dry Rot, what the comments on here have demonstrated is

-if HD is really bad enough and dog is fully grown and clearly in pain then op or PTS are the correct options
-That is not the case with the OPs dog
-Lots of other cases of vets saying 'the worst hips I've ever seen' have gone on to have happy healthy pain free lives, in some cases with zero surgical intervention.

 

[CorvusCorax]

If a dog was going to be lamed/crippled through HD or any other condition then yes I would PTS rather than go through major surgery, JMO though.
I do know a dog with 'severe' HD and ED on paper, who is incredibly active, and have seen dogs with very high hip and elbow scores which moved beautifully.

 

[Dry Rot]

My dog had a happy pain free active 12 years going hill walking etc before normal age related issues set in. You would never have known she had HD or surgery. Should she have been PTS?

No. You should have got another vet if he made a wrong diagnosis. I'd probably have sued him for good measure! I was at vet college long enough to become cynical. Not all vets are saints and some haven't a clue.

The one exception does not prove that all dogs diagnosed with HD, especially at the young age of 9 months, will live happily and pain free for another 11 years.

Who are we considering here? The owner or the dog?

 

[Alec Swan]

A very very sad thread.

This would be a no brainer for me but then I am a hard uncaring callous farmer who balances the brief unpleasantness of a lethal injection against a life of pain and suffering for the poor bloody dog.

I am sorry if this post upsets some people but someone needs to put the other side of the equation. I just do not think it is fair on the dog and I suspect the main objections to PTS are that the humans involved will be upset and the vets will lose out on some very lucrative work.

I will now go away and crawl back under my stone.

An excellent post with little room for misunderstanding. Your standpoint has little to do with farming, I'd suggest, but more to do with your sense of responsibility.

When you and I were starting out, most Vets would counsel against allowing for an animal's suffering. Today there are a veritable host of practice-supporting insurance policies to be gone through, before the line is offered "Perhaps, now that we've tried everything, we should consider what's in Fido's best interest". It's all so often the case, and it's only a shame that they didn't offer this advice from the outset.

A vet who I know, very well, and when I questioned her about the milking of insurance policies, looked at me and smiled and said "That's what they're there for". She then said that insurance work was the mainstay of just about every small animal practice, and without the guaranteed income stream, there would be far fewer practices. Her words, not mine.

Alec.

ETS, and as a footnote, should an animal have appalling skeletal flaws, and manage to live a pain-free life, then obviously, there would be no need to shorten the animal's life. The problem arrises when dogs are kept alive through what many would consider to be reasons which were unethical. a.

 

[MurphysMinder]

No. You should have got another vet if he made a wrong diagnosis. I'd probably have sued him for good measure! I was at vet college long enough to become cynical. Not all vets are saints and some haven't a clue.

The one exception does not prove that all dogs diagnosed with HD, especially at the young age of 9 months, will live happily and pain free for another 11 years.

Who are we considering here? The owner or the dog?

Why would you consider the vet made a wrong diagnosis? I read it that the dog had surgery for HD and made a great recovery.
With regard to the OP, I am presuming your dog is showing signs of pain and lameness rather than just puppy looseness? I certainly wouldn't be dashing into surgery without giving him time , and would second getting a specialist referral. Only then can you decide if surgery is the route to take.
Some vets will see a puppy that is just a bit wobbly and come to the conclusion that it is HD, I had this with one of my last litter, the vet decided at 10 weeks old the pup had poor hips because she bunny hopped. 12 months down the line she was hip scored, by a competent vet, and had a score below the breed average and is absolutely sound. I have also written on here before about my GSD who at 12 months was x rayed and the hips were described as atrocious by a professor at Liverpool Vet Hospital, a few years later she was scored and scored in the 90s, she lived to 13 and never had a days lameness in her life. She also had a very active life as I decided I would rather she had a short happy life rather than a long restricted one, she just decided to go for a long happy one.

 

[Dry Rot]

MM ^^^^, so does that prove that a veterinary diagnosis is always correct? By all means get a second opinion…and a third…and a fourth if that is what you want, but you don't mess about with animals.

If they are sick and unlikely to make a rapid recovery, put them out of their misery. Are there no healthy dogs in the rescues in need of homes? And it seems to me the OP could offer a dog a very good and caring home.

It is exactly 56 years ago that I used to attend surgery at my local vet's to watch him operate prior to my going into veterinary college. I will never forget the vet saying to his nurse with a wry smile, "I hope that we can keep this one going a bit longer as he is a real money spinner!" I think it was at that moment I decided I really didn't want to be a vet.

 

[Imogen Rose]

I have spoken more with my mum, and apparently she saw the x-ray. She said they were crystal clear and that his spine was completely straight.The vet couldnt get a good picture, so this is the third attempt. The vet actually stood in the x-ray room and exposed himself to the radiation to hold my dogs legs in the correct position to get a good x-ray. This makes him go up in my estimation. He is a vet of over 30 years, close to retiring.

Mum said she could see that he had no indentation in the hip for the joint to go into, and he has calcification forming on his hips already.

I understand where you are coming from dry rot, he is happy and pain free on anti inflamatories and painkillers. But without them he cries when he gets up, cries when he trips up or another dog bumps into him, and at times he struggles to walk. I have always said I wouldnt keep a horse going if they had to have bute everyday, just my opinion. But im now in the situation with my puppy.

The puppy was purchased to help everyone get over the loss of an older lab who died suddenly due to splean cancer in february last year and left us devastated. I think this is playing on everyones mind and is making it harder to decide what to do unfortunately.