A bit worried....

Spiritedly

Spiritedly

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My GSD has started to show progressive weakness in her hind legs. It started with an occasional stumble that we put down to clumsiness as she's not the most graceful dog in the world but it's quickly reached the point where she trips and loses balance getting out of her bed, and loses balance when shaking, scratching or changing direction and she's lost muscle tone in her back end.
She has an appointment with the vet on Tuesday but I'm stressing myself that she may have DM...she is from lines that are/were bred for colour rather than health and already has EPI!
I'm not sure why I'm posting as I know I need to wait till she sees the vet but she's my baby and I can't talk to the family about it as I don't want to worry them :(
 
This must be really worrying for you Spritedly, and I'm sure your vet will be able to diagnose. However, could this be a sign of Hip Dysplasia? I've haven't any knowledge of this myself (in my owned dogs but have seen it in others) and just wondered. I do hope it's a good outcome for yours.

PS I'd want a sooner appointment with my vet if I were you. Next Tuesday seems a long way away.
 
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It could be but she's not showing any signs of being in pain and the symptoms have come on quite rapidly. I'm not sure if either of those alternatives is any better than the other though :(

I tried to get in earlier but because of my work...very short staffed at the moment so can't take time off... and their appointment availability Tuesday is the first day I can get.
 
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Poor you, of course it is a worrying time. As you rightly say, best to wait and see what the vet says before starting to worry too much. How old is she? Have you checked her rear paws - are her nails worn down at all? One of the tests you can try at home is to turn/fold her rear foot under and see if she immediately corrects the foot and goes back to standing on the pad.

As you probably know, a diagnosis of DM usually comes after exclusion of all other causes of the symptoms. Similar neurological symptoms can be caused by a disc or nerve compression, spinal deterioration, tumour etc. I believe the only way to determine whether it is one of the above is by MRI and/or myelogram. Is she insured?

There is also the DM test - by blood or buccal swab - but not all affected dogs go on to show clinical signs of DM. If your vet does give you a diagnosis of DM though I would certainly recommend having the test done and the results reported to the GSD Breed Health Coordinator.

Fingers crossed. I hope all goes well at the vets.
 
WorkingGSD said:
Poor you, of course it is a worrying time. As you rightly say, best to wait and see what the vet says before starting to worry too much. How old is she? Have you checked her rear paws - are her nails worn down at all? One of the tests you can try at home is to turn/fold her rear foot under and see if she immediately corrects the foot and goes back to standing on the pad.

As you probably know, a diagnosis of DM usually comes after exclusion of all other causes of the symptoms. Similar neurological symptoms can be caused by a disc or nerve compression, spinal deterioration, tumour etc. I believe the only way to determine whether it is one of the above is by MRI and/or myelogram. Is she insured?

There is also the DM test - by blood or buccal swab - but not all affected dogs go on to show clinical signs of DM. If your vet does give you a diagnosis of DM though I would certainly recommend having the test done and the results reported to the GSD Breed Health Coordinator.

Fingers crossed. I hope all goes well at the vets.
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Her back claws are short compared to her fronts and although she corrects her foot when folded under the reaction is delayed which is what made me think DM.

She will be 7 in January so she's not old and luckily is insured....although I would find the money to have her treated somehow even if she wasn't.

I'm not sure if I want it to be Tuesday so I can possibly have answers or don't want it to be as I don't want bad news!
 
Spiritedly said:
Her back claws are short compared to her fronts and although she corrects her foot when folded under the reaction is delayed which is what made me think DM.

She will be 7 in January so she's not old and luckily is insured....although I would find the money to have her treated somehow even if she wasn't.

I'm not sure if I want it to be Tuesday so I can possibly have answers or don't want it to be as I don't want bad news!
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I understand entirely. It is unlikely you will get a definite diagnosis on Tuesday, so better to get the ball rolling and then if it is something that can be treated it will be identified more quickly.

Often in DM cases the inner toes of the rear paws are worn down and there is also a loss of muscle in the back legs. Is she showing difficulty when rising and a reluctance to jump?

I really hope it is something that can be treated. Let us know how you get on.
 
It does sound like DM sadly, I hate to say it but those sound like the symptoms. There is no pain with DM. She does sound young, my females were 12/14 when we took the decision. The younger one too late, the older one when she couldn't get up unaided.

Hoping it's a better diagnosis and something that can be treated x
 
I used animal genetics uk labs to swab test for Dm..results come back in a week..not expensive and worth doing to give you more info..
The symptoms you describe do sound like it could be Dm.i do hope it's not.
 
Had the vets today and she is 99% certain it is DM :'( We have an appointment booked for an X-ray on Thursday just to rule out hip dysplasia or any other spinal problems. I'm numb at the moment....she's my baby and only young! It's so unfair.
 
degenerative myelopathy also known as CDRM. A nerve condition affecting normally the back legs. I believe the nerve endings lose their protective coating.
OP I'm sorry for your diagnosis 7 is really young. I have had 2 GSD's with this but onset around 10 years of age.
My advice would be keep your dog exercising as long as possible, preferably on soft surfaces to avoid wearing the claws down. If you can afford it hydrotherapy is great.
My two remained very upbeat and at no time appeared to be in any pain.
 
Thank you everyone.

The vet and I spoke about hydrotherapy but Tiki is very wary of strangers and would only do it if I was in the water with her. She couldn't even get in the car today I had to lift her in and where last week she was slow righting her back feet after they were turned under today when the vet did it she didn't right them at all!

I've never hoped so hard for an X-ray to show something as I am at the moment!
 
Keep positive. DM is generally a fairly slow progressing condition. It could be a compressed disc which could offer the hope of surgery. Fingers crossed for you and your girl.
 
Another trip to the vets today and X-rays were taken which showed she has hip dysplasia in both hips with arthritic changes :(

I'm relieved that it's not DM and she can at least have treatment but also so angry that her breeders were so interested in money that they didn't bother having tests done on her parents and she now has two genetic conditions!....EPI as well as the dysplasia....I'm now going to spend the weekend googling different treatment options before seeing the vet again on Monday to decide where we go next.

On the subject of treatment options she has been given Tramadol for now but the vet has suggested Cartrophen as an alternative does anyone have experience of these and what did you find worked best?
 
I think in some ways hd is preferable to DM, as at least there is treatment. Is it the cartrophen injections the vet has suggested? If so I would go for those I think as I have seen good results with them. Hydrotherapy would definitely help too so well worth considering
Unfortunately there are still breeders who are in it just for the money, but there are also many breeders who do all health tests , and there is a lot of information out there about how to choose a decent breeder but sadly people don't seem to realise how important it is.
 
HD is probably the lesser of two evils. As mentioned, keeping her fit/muscled and lean will help as well as meds and good nutrition.

Anyone who won't spend a couple of hundred (absolute max) on health tests for breeding animals while raking in many times that amount in puppy sales is only interested in one thing, and it isn't the good of the breed.

But hey, if they are old fashioned, straight backed and big boned they don't get HD and don't forget, 'they never health tested back in my day and the dogs didn't have HD' (actually, yes they did.....and yes they did)
 
CorvusCorax said:
HD is probably the lesser of two evils. As mentioned, keeping her fit/muscled and lean will help as well as meds and good nutrition.

Anyone who won't spend a couple of hundred (absolute max) on health tests for breeding animals while raking in many times that amount in puppy sales is only interested in one thing, and it isn't the good of the breed.

But hey, if they are old fashioned, straight backed and big boned they don't get HD and don't forget, 'they never health tested back in my day and the dogs didn't have HD' (actually, yes they did.....and yes they did)
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So true, it does seem to be those who shout about "straight backs" who never bother with x rays, and people believe their nonsense. My mum was x raying her GSDs back in the 60s
 
As we know, hip dysplasia is considered to be multifactorial, meaning there are many factors that determine whether an individual will be affected. Genetics is one factor, but sadly it is not as simple as that. Breeding dogs that are free of hip dysplasia will reduce the risk of puppies with hip dysplasia (and I believe that breeding stock should ALWAYS be hip scored prior to breeding and only those with low scores be bred from); however, it is possible for a puppy to develop the condition even if the parents were not affected by the disease.

Helping your dog to maintain a lean body weight will help reduce the effects of the condition. Providing daily light exercise will also help your dog develop strong muscles which can support their joints more effectively and hydrotherapy is also recommended. Any arthritic pain can be managed by NSAIDs and I believe fish oil supplements can also help reduce joint inflammation. Chondroitin and glucosamine supplements seem to help some individuals but are ineffective in others - so also worth trying.
 
CorvusCorax said:
Anyone who won't spend a couple of hundred (absolute max) on health tests for breeding animals while raking in many times that amount in puppy sales is only interested in one thing, and it isn't the good of the breed.

But hey, if they are old fashioned, straight backed and big boned they don't get HD and don't forget, 'they never health tested back in my day and the dogs didn't have HD' (actually, yes they did.....and yes they did)
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I have just been banging my head against a brick wall on a GSD FB page about this. Back story is a large litter of pups born, neither parent health tested but the breeder says he has had shepherds for 20 years, quite a few litters over the years and never had one issue with any of the dogs he has bred, only have "straight backed" shepherds, never go for show lines due to inbreeding yada yada yada!! There were a shocking amount of people interested too (oh and he was charging £700 per pup). The breed will continue to be in a mess with breeders and buyers like this :(
 
WorkingGSD said:
Oh and he was charging £700 per pup). The breed will continue to be in a mess with breeders and buyers like this :(
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That is well over twice what I paid to have my dog's x-rays assessed in Germany. It is much cheaper to do it under the BVA.
The price of one pup would cover the health tests of two breeding animals with money left over. Maximum return for minimum effort.
 
CorvusCorax said:
That is well over twice what I paid to have my dog's x-rays assessed in Germany. It is much cheaper to do it under the BVA.
The price of one pup would cover the health tests of two breeding animals with money left over. Maximum return for minimum effort.
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Yeah, if only these people would start thinking of the health and future of the breed rather than the £££ signs :(
 
WorkingGSD said:
Helping your dog to maintain a lean body weight will help reduce the effects of the condition. Providing daily light exercise will also help your dog develop strong muscles which can support their joints more effectively and hydrotherapy is also recommended. Any arthritic pain can be managed by NSAIDs and I believe fish oil supplements can also help reduce joint inflammation. Chondroitin and glucosamine supplements seem to help some individuals but are ineffective in others - so also worth trying.
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Luckily her weight isn't an issue as she has always been lean. Exercise wise I have cut back on what she was doing as she used to come running with me before she started to show signs that there was a problem.

Unfortunately she can't be given NSAIDS as she already has EPI and it would cause too much irritation and problems hence the two choices I have been given as both have shown to be well tolerated by dogs with pancreatic problems.
 
MurphysMinder said:
I think in some ways hd is preferable to DM, as at least there is treatment. Is it the cartrophen injections the vet has suggested? If so I would go for those I think as I have seen good results with them. Hydrotherapy would definitely help too so well worth considering
Unfortunately there are still breeders who are in it just for the money, but there are also many breeders who do all health tests , and there is a lot of information out there about how to choose a decent breeder but sadly people don't seem to realise how important it is.
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It is the injections and as I was a vet nurse in a previous life they are happy for me to administer them so it would mean less upset for her by taking her to the surgery.
 
CorvusCorax said:
But hey, if they are old fashioned, straight backed and big boned they don't get HD and don't forget, 'they never health tested back in my day and the dogs didn't have HD' (actually, yes they did.....and yes they did)
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Funnily enough she is the old fashioned, big boned straight backed type :-/ My grandfather used to train his own guide dogs and they were always GSD's and my mum pointed out that one of his dogs had HD and that was over 30 years ago!
 
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