'a bute a day' - ethics and long term effects

[AmyMay]

I haven't read other replies - so apologies if I repeat.

However, for long term use - Danillon is always preferable to Bute. But I think also if you are in a situation where your horse needs two a day to be kept comfortable, the long term affect of either are the least of your worries. What you are managing is the quality of life, not the quantity.

I wouldn't have a problem with a horse on 1 - 2 Danillon a day for a period of time, but would draw the line at any more than that, and would be looking to manage the dosage to the least amount to keep the horse comfortable.

 

[Brandy]

It is a hard one, my old horse, (29) is on one bute a day. Most days. Some days none, or half, other very occasional days, two.

I asked my vet about the long term affects, her answer was 'at his age, long term doesn;t really come into it. If he was 9 then yes, there can be effects from long term use'

So that was nice.

I guess it depends on his age and how long term you mean? For the 6 months? In which case I would go for it. Or for ever? In which case I would seriously investigate an alternative. I regularly get a bottle of something natural instead of bute, most often when my old boy is in a good spell.

Don't get me wrong, hes not hopping or anything, just old and arthritic.

 

[pottamus]

Depending on the circumstances for the horse needing bute, I would consider it long term if it meant my boy could still be hacked out and kept mentally busy a couple of days per week. Saying that my lad would be happy as a field ornament too!
It is no different to humans that have to take codiene long term or asprin for heart conditions...not ideal but enables the person to keep functioning. I have had bouts of codeine of super strength for my back and would carry on taking it if things got bad again. I am sure bute has detrimental affects on other organs and functions but if the horse is faced with an option of being pts without it...then why not prolong their life a bit longer by using bute if it means they remain happy and can have a good quality of life.

 

[Jingleballs]

Personally I think a danilon a day is a far preferable option to death. If I had arthritis, I would take painkillers even though they had side effects, so I could improve my quality of life. I feel the same about the horses. And I think that if you can't keep a horse doing nothing in a field, then surely it works for everyone to keep it in light work on bute? If the bute finishes it off, well the lameness would have got there first.

Well said!

 

[Chumsmum]

My 18yo pony has been on one Bute per day for just under a year now - he seems very happy and well on it and this is enough for me to be happy with using Bute long term.

He has Bone Spavin, his last injection only worked for a couple of months and he was lame on a circle again so I agreed with the vet's recommendation that he would be a light hack only - the vet thought it was best to keep him moving rather than retire him completely. He also lives out 24/7 and has remedial shoeing to help with the BS.

The vet said he has many horses under his care on long term Bute and has never had a case of liver damage - as long as the horse is on the minimum dosage it can be - it took weeks for me to decide one Bute a day suited him and I'm trialling another supplement atm and will try to reduce the Bute if it works.

The day that he is not happy with our little hacks he will be fully retired. And when he is not field sound or happy on 1 or 2 bute per day I will PTS..

For anyone using Bute and struggling to get their horse to eat it, I have found that just one cup of Lo Cal Balancer hides his daily Bute but he can suss it out in a big scoop of chaff and mix..

 

[Hanno Verian]

I had a 17hh Hanoverian a number of years ago, I took him on aged around 12 after a career where he had been a Grade B showjumper and having dressaged to a high level. He'd been diagnosed with DJD and as such was uncomfortable on the one leg, unable to turn tightly on it, I took him on knowing his limitations and that I'd be able to do very little with him, but his other option was realisticaly a bullet.

I had him for three years, he went from being a "commodity" as a competition horse, just one of a string, to a much loved family pet and hack. In order to keep him sound he was on a daily dose of bute, we experimented with the dosage to keep him on the minimum possible in order to reduce potential liver damage, but ensure his comfort and quality of life.

He had three lovely years with us where he was happy, fussed over and able to hack out and pop the odd jump and gallop through the countryside, however we found it harder to keep weight onto him going into winter and had decided that if we believed that his quality of life dropped below a certain point then we would let him go. We had explored all the avenues, tried alternative remedies, found some things that helped him, discarded options that didn't work and established a regime that allowed him to be happy and enjoy a good quality of life.

It was a hard day knowing that we would have to let him go, we doubled his bute dose and took him for a good blast, which he loved, the next day we took him to the hunt kennels and he went, believing that he was going to have a days hunting!

He was a lovely boy who's cheeky personality only really emerged with a one-to-one bond, he may have had the odd days stiffness, and not always been 100% sound, but he had three good years with us to enjoy his life. I wished that I'd had him as a fully sound horse and frequently cursed the commercial pressures that often pushes young horses before there bodies are ready for it, but it was not to be, but I don't ever regret giving him the chance to enjoy three years of his life to the full.

 

[ew0855]

If a person has arthritis/chronic low level pain they are advised to keep active and take simple painkillers such as paracetamol. A bute a day is no different really. Often with things like arthritis light exercise is better than sitting in a chair all day so if giving regular analgesia means the horse stays in work in and therefore stays supple and maintains muscle strength I see no ethical problem at all in daily painkillers.

Sadly agree with OP - long term outlook depends on keeping horse's discomfort controlled so he has a good quality of life not worrying about theoretical risks from the painkillers.

 

[muddy boots]

I had a 17hh Hanoverian a number of years ago, I took him on aged around 12 after a career where he had been a Grade B showjumper and having dressaged to a high level. He'd been diagnosed with DJD and as such was uncomfortable on the one leg, unable to turn tightly on it, I took him on knowing his limitations and that I'd be able to do very little with him, but his other option was realisticaly a bullet.

I had him for three years, he went from being a "commodity" as a competition horse, just one of a string, to a much loved family pet and hack. In order to keep him sound he was on a daily dose of bute, we experimented with the dosage to keep him on the minimum possible in order to reduce potential liver damage, but ensure his comfort and quality of life.

He had three lovely years with us where he was happy, fussed over and able to hack out and pop the odd jump and gallop through the countryside, however we found it harder to keep weight onto him going into winter and had decided that if we believed that his quality of life dropped below a certain point then we would let him go. We had explored all the avenues, tried alternative remedies, found some things that helped him, discarded options that didn't work and established a regime that allowed him to be happy and enjoy a good quality of life.

It was a hard day knowing that we would have to let him go, we doubled his bute dose and took him for a good blast, which he loved, the next day we took him to the hunt kennels and he went, believing that he was going to have a days hunting!

He was a lovely boy who's cheeky personality only really emerged with a one-to-one bond, he may have had the odd days stiffness, and not always been 100% sound, but he had three good years with us to enjoy his life. I wished that I'd had him as a fully sound horse and frequently cursed the commercial pressures that often pushes young horses before there bodies are ready for it, but it was not to be, but I don't ever regret giving him the chance to enjoy three years of his life to the full.

Nice story, glad you gave him some happy years.

 

[muddy boots]

Mine has DJD, he's 18 and on an every other day dose of Danilon. It keeps him sound and well enough for light work. He has put on weight this spring which makes me think there has been a link between pain and lack of weight gain, this might be a mad theory, but he is doing no less work than the last 3 years but looks well. He is also very lively and keen now.

 

[fatpiggy]

Pain can indeed cause weight loss. My vet says it is because the pain causes the horse stress and we all know how a horse can worry itself thin overnight.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

When my 24 yr old TBxWelsh was on 2xbute a day with no effect, the last option was magnet boots. They worked almost miraculously, she trotted from choice when before she had been struggling to walk. They gave her extra time fulfilling her role, which was as a companion to the others, so that no-one had to be left in the field alone, until she had a stroke and had to be pts. I don't think that the stroke was linked to either the bute or the magnets.

 

[Hanno Verian]

When my 24 yr old TBxWelsh was on 2xbute a day with no effect, the last option was magnet boots. They worked almost miraculously, she trotted from choice when before she had been struggling to walk. They gave her extra time fulfilling her role, which was as a companion to the others, so that no-one had to be left in the field alone, until she had a stroke and had to be pts. I don't think that the stroke was linked to either the bute or the magnets.

Interesting that you mention magnet boots..I posted earlier in the thread regarding my Hanoverian who had DJD and was on daily bute. I'm naturally rather cynical about magnotherapy and the like, BUT I have to say, after buying him a pair in a moment of desperation....they did seem to make a difference. I can't remember if I rode him in them, or turned him out with them on after riding, as he was only generally out daytime, or both.

Ironically I had myself a long term injury to my foot...a sore area on the area near the ball of my foot, that had no rational reason and defied diagnosis by the doctor..other than non specific soft tissue injury, but had left me limping for two years, to the extent that it was just part of life and I accepted that I'd never be able to run for fitness training again. After seeing the difference it made to my horse, I bought a magnotherapy bracelet for myself, placebo effect or not... I noticed a significant improvement, I spend an awful lot of time on my feet in my current work, I run etc etc without the slightest twinge..although I stopped wearing it after about a year.

Sorry to hijack the thread there..but just thought I'd mention it as an option to try magnetic boots in conjunction with bute, allowing the dose to be reduced, I think it was a company called Armadillo or something similar that made them, I picked them up at what was the British Equine Event at Stoneleigh about 7-8 years ago.

 

[PippiPony]

My oldie was on a bute a day for about 2 years. when she was 19 after a nasty kick to her hock i put her on a devils claw suppliment which help. but eventually it was not enough, as she developed mild arthritis in both fore foetlocks. The bute was great. She was hacked & schooled 5 times a week. She was very happy on it, 6 weeks before she was PTS she was doing flying changes in the school.
Magnet boots were a great help to her as well.
I was told by vet that for a big horse like her (16.1hh ID x TB Medium weight hunter) it was no different to us taking a single asprin a day & was unlikely to casue long term liver damage.

 

[criso]

I decided not to go down that route with mine who had soft tissue damage at the age of 5 as I was concerned that he would increasingly do more damage plus at that age long term could be very long term.

Can totally see the sense of you have an older horse with an arthritic type condition that you want to make more comfortable.

With Bute versus Danilon, my understanding was that Danilon is much kinder on the stomach so less likely to cause ulcers but that in terms of liver damage there was no difference in the way it was metabolised. Danilon is also sugar coated making it much more palatable to fussy horses.

I have a feeling that Devil's Claw can also cause liver problems long term but Boswellia doesn't. Just because something is 'herbal' doesn't mean that it's necessarily kinder or free of side effects.