A couple of colic questions...

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mollymurphy

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Just wondering how many times it would be ok for a vet to tube liquid parafin into an impaction colic pony? Pony in question started to colic 3 days ago - vet was out 3 times the first day, twice the second day and once so far today. So far he's had about 4 or 5 lots a parafin even though he's started passing. Is that excessive?
Also, his resps per min are at 62! He still looks very colicy at times - rolling, straining, etc - but vet doesnt seem too worried. It's been 3 days now. We've told the owner to get another vet out, but i think he feels some kind of loyalty to them.
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The vet is yet to find a pulse after 6 visits!! She just keeps sticking her arm up his bum and tubing him full of parafin!
Also, he is rather bloody inside - the blood isnt very red, more browny red and there's quite a lot of it. Yet his poos aren't bloody.
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Would you be worrying as much as me or am i over-reacting?? Vet has now said to give him until this afternoon and send him to leahurst if he's no better. I personally would have done that at least 24 hours ago...
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Lou. x
 
personally I would have changed vet at this point. If your horse has colic you want an equine specialist and if they can't find a pulse they are not an equine specialist.

My pony coliced prob 10 years ago now with a compaction. Took over 3 days to clear and yes he had about 3 or 4 lots of liquid paraffin but he was in the recovery by the third day.

If my horse I would have got another vet after the first visit when they couldn't get the pulse but that is me! also 62 as its resps per minute? that is very OTT as isn't it meant to be 8-12 or similar?!?!
 
My then 2yo had impaction colic in the morning...vet came...gave Buscopan....seemed ok for the day....OH checked at 10pm...vaguely colicky so we phoned the vet again. She advised us to get transport ready while she was on her way...she sedated her...rectaled her...and in she went to the hospital.....and they operated a day later.
No blood though - I'd be really really worried about blood in an impaction...
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S
 
That's what i thought, but no-one else seems bothered! I feel so sorry for him - he's obviously in great discomfort. Vet said she couldnt feel an impaction or a twist, but was treating for an impaction. Once he pood she said he'd be fine, but he's really not. It'll be us who takes them to Leahurst because they've got no transport and the owners are pretty clueless, hence why we've been keeping an eye on him. Despite being told not to, last night and this morning, he was given a hay net ffs!!
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That's what i thought, but no-one else seems bothered! I feel so sorry for him - he's obviously in great discomfort. Vet said she couldnt feel an impaction or a twist, but was treating for an impaction. Once he pood she said he'd be fine, but he's really not. It'll be us who takes them to Leahurst because they've got no transport and the owners are pretty clueless, hence why we've been keeping an eye on him. Despite being told not to, last night and this morning, he was given a hay net ffs!!
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Blood, IMHO, has to come from some damage to the intestine....if it's brown it's from further up the digestive system...rectal blood appearing bright red, I believe. And if there is damage to the intestine....how will it spontaneously sort itself?
My horse wasn't particularly ill when I called the vet (I'm very cautious with colic) and was in fact still eating a bit...still peeing...and passing diarrhoeal dung....just lying down a lot. The vets all said that she had been a good candidate for surgery because she was in such good condition and so strong beforehand...because it had been spotted early.
I hope the pony recovers...
S
 
Thank you, me too. Poor boy is only 6. Vet hasnt even taken bloods to see if he's got the same viral infection that caused Hatties colic the other day. She just said "i'm beginning to wonder if he has."
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We shall see...........
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On two notes......

Firstly .... My pony Simon had impaction colic, vet came and gave various injections and when he didnt seem to pick up he was whisked straight away to the equine hospital, no waiting around. Thankfully he didnt need surgery but he was in the best place.

Secondly ..... If you have no faith on the vet you need to persuade them to get another. Please ensure they do. I have had first hand experience of incompitent vets. I was with my vet for 12 years. My friends horse got run over ( rider killed
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) and we suspected he has broken his leg. Our vet wouldnt refer him to Leahurst despite the horse spending a week permanently lay down in severe pain. We asked and asked for him to go but were told he's not that bad. We trusted this vet we had had a long time. A week later we got another vet who refered him straight away. Yes his leg was broken and severley infected by this point. Two operations later he was PTS. Not because of the broken leg but the severe infection. They basically said if he had come straight away he would still be alive. We made the mistake of trusting the vet despite our own judgement and we will live with that. Please insist they get another opinion.

If the horse isnt looking any better after 3 days there is something seriously wrong.
 
If the blockage can not be resolved within 12 hours of the onset of an episode of colic then I would have thought that the horse needs to go to a specialist equine clinic without any further delay.
 
If there is blood coming from the rectum then that could be incredibly serious and warrants calling out an equine vet as a matter of emergency.
 
Thank you for the replies everyone. When i got to the yard before, he was up and quite a bit brighter. Not sure if that's just because of the pain relief though (vet gave injection and owner had just given bute)?
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I asked if he'd spoken to the vet - he said yes and had told the vet he was fine now.
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So she hasnt been out again. The vet from this morning was a different vet - from the same practice, but a different person. Owner said she was much better. She didnt rectal him - just checked his vitals and gave him the injection. So at the moment, not much has happened. Owner still wont get our vet out, but at least the pony's brighter.
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If he's no better tomorrow, i'll load him into the trailer and take him to Leahurst whether they like it or not!
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I wouldnt mind but it's not like he's not insured!!

Lou. x
 
If the horse hasn't made any significant progress within a 12-24 hour period then they really need to go to a specialist.

My vet came out during the night when my boy first started colicing, he put fluids through a tube to his stomach and rectalled him. He came out again the next morning and did the same thing but no change so then referred him to Rossdales.

The pony needs to go without further delay, especially as blood is present.
 
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Thank you for the replies everyone. When i got to the yard before, he was up and quite a bit brighter. Not sure if that's just because of the pain relief though (vet gave injection and owner had just given bute)?
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I asked if he'd spoken to the vet - he said yes and had told the vet he was fine now.
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So she hasnt been out again. The vet from this morning was a different vet - from the same practice, but a different person. Owner said she was much better. She didnt rectal him - just checked his vitals and gave him the injection. So at the moment, not much has happened. Owner still wont get our vet out, but at least the pony's brighter.
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If he's no better tomorrow, i'll load him into the trailer and take him to Leahurst whether they like it or not!
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I wouldnt mind but it's not like he's not insured!!

Lou. x

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I am now officially confused
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If he's now fine, why does he need injections presumably Buscopan or similar?
S
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S, Injection was this morning.
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Pony is 'fine' tonight.
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Ah...maybe he is then as it would have worn off.
But the blood? Where do the vets think that came from?
Sorry to ask questions, but it's fascinating.
S
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It is isnt it! Vet this morning didnt even mention the blood! I wasnt there, or i would have asked. Pony still isnt right, but if it IS over, he'll probably just be knackered wont he?
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Having gone through this this weekend, please do not be afraid of being over cautious. After 3 days my horse hadn't passed anything and had low level colic signs which subsided with pain relief, but when they operated some of his gut was in the wrong place and the impaction was never going to get out on its own. I'm so glad we got him to the hospital on the first day before got too bad to travel and they could properly monitor him there.
 
forgot to mention the only reason why my pony had to indure 3 days of colic without surgery was because in Jersey at the time there was no operating theatre, surgeries were done on plastic tarpaulin as and where suitable so avoided if at all possible. (our 12h2 was operated on in the field where he fell after being stabbed in the leg many years back thankfully he was ok as missed artery by mm's)
 
Reading all ye'r post makes me cry, I lost my cob last May to colic Due to the total Incompetence of the riding school he was kept at and also the vets incompetence.
My horse was sitting down and standing up all the time, The people that owned the riding school rang me and I siad to phone the vet immediately, I got there about an hour later and the vet arrived. The vet said he was constipated , I asked the vet was it an impaction and he said no he gave him liquid parifin and said he would be fine. I was happy to go home thinking my horse was only constipated, The next morning I was told that my horse rolled all night So THEY had to load him and take him to the vet again {same vet}. By the time I got there the vet told me that he had colic and he needed an operation to survive, I had no insurance and couldn't afford the OP. I got another vet and he was given pain relief and bute for another 24 hrs in the end the vet was out every few hours , He was a real gentleman right to the end and even when he wanted to roll when I said no he didnt, He was put out of his misery early that morning and I lost a great friend, and he will never be forgotton. I blame the vet for the miss diagnoses. Oh and he is supposed to be an equine vet, I have a new mare now first thing I did was insure her . Sorry about the long post , I just had to give my input.
 
I sympathise with the loss of your cob, Cara...but I'm not sure I understand how the riding school or the vet were responsible? Can you explain to me (in words of one syllable, preferably
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)?
S
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Sorry I dont get this one.
SO the vet diagnosed constipation & you went home 'happy'. Then the riding school told you next day he had been rolling all night. Why was it the Riding Schools job to see to the horse all night whilst you went off to bed?
If the vet had diagnosed the colic in the first place & you could not afford the OP. Would the outcome have been any different? perhaps the poor chap would not have suffered for as long. Is that it!
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Sometime it s hard to explain it in writing.
My horse was in working livery as I was doing a basic equine course and was riding him there.
When the vet checked my horse that evening and said he was constipated , I said to the vet so that is not colic and he said no its not colic he is just constipated he did a rectal on him and said his Stools were very hard. he gave him the liquid paraffin and he said he will be fine when he passed, I asked the vet should I stay to keep and eye on him and another girl working there said she would also and the vet said no he should be fine, I did go home happy that night thinking my horse was only constipated and I would never have gone if I knew it was a colic. He was left in the arena as the vet said it would be the best place for him that night. The next morning I rang the riding school and was told he was in bad shape and he had rolled all night in the arena as there was signs of him rolling all over the arena. I do still believe that if I was told my horse had colic ,I could have stayed and walked him and stopped him from rolling, When I got another vet the next day after that vet said he had twisted. I asked the other vet after my horse died , Was constipation a colic and he said he would have said yes it was.. Impacted colic…….
 
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Sometime it s hard to explain it in writing.
My horse was in working livery as I was doing a basic equine course and was riding him there.
When the vet checked my horse that evening and said he was constipated , I said to the vet so that is not colic and he said no its not colic he is just constipated he did a rectal on him and said his Stools were very hard. he gave him the liquid paraffin and he said he will be fine when he passed, I asked the vet should I stay to keep and eye on him and another girl working there said she would also and the vet said no he should be fine, I did go home happy that night thinking my horse was only constipated and I would never have gone if I knew it was a colic. He was left in the arena as the vet said it would be the best place for him that night. The next morning I rang the riding school and was told he was in bad shape and he had rolled all night in the arena as there was signs of him rolling all over the arena. I do still believe that if I was told my horse had colic ,I could have stayed and walked him and stopped him from rolling, When I got another vet the next day after that vet said he had twisted. I asked the other vet after my horse died , Was constipation a colic and he said he would have said yes it was.. Impacted colic…….

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Impacted colic IS constipation....I don't understand why you say the riding school is responsible but the vet spoke to you about not checking him directly? And if you couldn't afford an Op, and the vet treated him for impaction anyway, how is it the vet's fault.
I'm still confused
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S
 
my vet put his hands up flint and helped pull what he could out.

I do not mean this to sound terrible in anyway- but When they told me flint would be fine I stayed in his stable all night to be sure. Its a painfull lesson and my thoughts are with you
 
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Sorry I dont get this one.
SO the vet diagnosed constipation & you went home 'happy'. Then the riding school told you next day he had been rolling all night. Why was it the Riding Schools job to see to the horse all night whilst you went off to bed?
If the vet had diagnosed the colic in the first place & you could not afford the OP. Would the outcome have been any different? perhaps the poor chap would not have suffered for as long. Is that it!
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I dont think on hindsight that the poster needs your disaproval. Sometimes its quite OK to take a step back and be a bit knider in your words.
 
Just to add to this post. Murph is on working livery at the moment at an equine college. Whereas I would hope they would notify us if he was ill, and we would stay with him, the working livery contract does state that he is in their care, they have authority to call the vet (the practice is on the college yard which is handy), and to authorise any treatment.
So they Op wasn't really being irresponsible by leaving her pony in the riding stables care.
 
When I started my equine course last year the riding school where we had to ride was in a shambles . Managed badly, adults were expected to ride little ponys, We asked to move to another riding school but it wasn't allowed. I had to ride and do 6 jumps to pass the exams. I am not small and could not ride ponys, So I decided to bring my horse down for the last 4 weeks of the course. Which I did and was riding every day. I did feel that alot of the ponys there were in bad condition and their stables were in a bad way also. WE complained about all this and even said we would call animal welfare, There were improvements Some. I mucked out my horse stable every day and made sure he was feed and watered,
I loved my horse and there isn't a day I dont cry about him and not I feel I am here trying to justify his death. I didn't know that constipation was colic if I did I would never have left my horse.
When he got sick the riding school called me say he was acting strange sitting down {like a dog would do}and seemed uncomfortable, I live an hour away and said to phone the vet and I left straight away. When I got there the riding school had no vet they were looking up numbers in the phone book and finally we got one out, He was the vet they said all that, I know I couldn't afford the op but my horse hadn't twisted at that time, I believe if I had stayed there walked him and stopped him from rolling me would have had a better chance of passing and he would not have twisted. The next morning when the girl from the riding school found him they had take him to the vets but they had no box and had to borrow one waiting another 2 hrs before they got one. I was in college doing exams thinkg he was only constipated. By the time I heard all this he was at the vets and I went down there and he told me he had twisted I was very upset and said to the vet you told me last night he was only constipated and now you are telling me he has colic. He didn't reply. So yes I do blame the riding school and the vet. I blame the course and yes I also blame myself, I know if my horse has been at home he more that likely would still be alive today.
 
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