a dilemma about stable vices

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maggiehorse

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hi all bear with me this may take a while to explain
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i posted a few weeks ago about finding a nice project horse to work on and sell for small profit and i,ve now got a dilemma which is causing a bit of a debate lets say between myself and better half , we both will care for ride and compete on this horse so it is very much a joint decision

ok details of horse , 16 hh dark brown 3/4 TB gelding 11 yrs sweet temperment very laid back to ride, nice straight movement fully pappered and passported wormed teeth done etc excellant stable manners good with other horses loads and travels well friendly in field with other horses and schooling after a little work from myself will be fine at moment hes rather unfit , he shows a good ability over a fence and i think he will make a very good alrounder / show jumper, hes not an experts ride i should say an average rider would be perfectly safe on him

ok you say whats the dilemma ?
i have him at my place to asses him because he has stable vices , he windsuckes at mealtimes and when bored (quite often at the moment ) and weaves when very excited (not often hes VERY LAID BACK FOR HIS BREEDING ) , hubby says hes not saleable , i say that his good manners when ridden and handle would attract a nice buyer who would get a nicely schooled cheaper horse , i have a week to decide whether to hang on to him and take risk he sells , or send him bacjk to owner where he will be banged back up in barn with no turnout and hardly ever ridden
so what do you lot think , would you overlook his vices to get a sane sound animal to ride or would you not even consider a look? oh and while we are at it can you lot say what you think he would be worth pleeeeese
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If he windsucks at mealtimes and when bored.... scrap mealtimes! 'Meals' are a totaly un-natural concept for a horse.... You might find he settles down if his food is prety much always there. If he is moved on to a fiber based diet (with oil for energy) it will keep him entertained whilst stabled. With fiber feeding you don't have to worry about the 2 hours before and after work feeding rule because the horse is trickle feeding. They don't gobble up fiber feeds, but pick at them. Short chop fiber has a far longer eating time than nuts or mixes (which are full of things like sugar and starch which no horse, let alone a stress head needs) Horse show far fewer symptoms of stress, ulcers, colic when on fiber.

For people who compete there are some very scientific higher energy fiber feeds around, take a look at the Winergy products. http://www.winergy.com/
 
I think you could sell him on Project Horses. How much do you need to do before advertising him? Is it worth putting a speculative ad on? The horses there aren't just horses that need special work, they can also be horses that have these sort of behaviours - and a lot of people would expect to pay a bit less for him, but not be bothered enough to walk away from a good horse.
You can also try Settlex for the windsucking.
 
I would buy one with such a vice if it was as good as you say in other ways but like you, my OH would object! I think it's because men see pound signs and not love! As long as the wind sucking isn't due to something more serious, like a gastric problem then it wouldn't bother me, as long as the price reflected the fact that he windsucks, and I suppose that is where your OH is coming from. I would suggest trying what YorkshireLass has posted. I suppose it is ok if it is a one off, this is the only horse you are going to buy to sell on with such problems, but if you're planning to do it again maybe your OH is concerned it will be another horse with a similar vice and then the whole buying in and bringing on to sell thing, starts to lose it's purpose? I don't know, maybe I'm completely off track!
 
'fraid I wouldn't buy one who windsucked or weaved (let alone both). The weaving would definately put me off as it can cause issues with the legs through the twisting (I know one who was PTS because it had f'd up its legs doing it!).

Ive had the odd project and had one who cribbed. Took me about a year to sell her when it usually took me about 2 months max to sell all other ones! It did put a LOT of people off. I was totally honest about it though which you have to be with vices.

If this were a horse for yourself then no problem. But TBH I think you will have problems selling. There are people out there who dont mind vices, but a lot who do! It depends how much you plan to sell for, if really cheap then youll probably be ok, but I assume you want to sell for a quite decent amount to make profit. I personally think there are already a lot of safe / sensible horses who have no vices.
 

just got back from riding him hes a lovely laid back chap nothing fazed him and it looks like hes being tried tomorrow by a lady on yard for happy hacking and the odd local show , he,ll mostly live out and stay here so i can school him further for her .. come on you lot what price should i be asking
 
On a completely separate note to the vices my worry would be will he still be 'safe' when he's fit and schooled? He's 'safe' now but by your own admission he's unfit added to which he's also known to get 'excited' is this the right type of horse for a 'happy hacker'? .
 
rather unfit for competition ie hunter trialling ode etc hes hacking fit in fact i rode him out through woods in company this morning and he was a complete gentleman , as for the excitement comment , hes very laid back to ride and handle , what i meant by excited was in his stable when other horses are led out , his history is that he was kept with one other single horse for first 8 years and when he showed any reaction to his companion going away from him they stuffed him in stable tied up a foreleg and beat the crap out of him(as his breeder proudly told me on phone when i asked about his`early handling ) tied in the yard or mounted he goes to sleep as other horses come and go , hes rubber snaffle mouthed and perfect as a happy hacker , any further schooling will be aimed at competion mainly show jumping which he hasnt done much of but seems `happy and confident and is going to his first show tomorrow
 
As a buy and sell, wouldn't touch anything with vices.ETA:your everage rider will most likely have read up on stable vices as a 'no go' so again unsuitable. Sorry.
 
My horses live out 24/7 so if everything else was OK with them I've never worried about stable vices as long as they ar enot detrimental to health.
 
If this is a project to sell on then don't entertain anything with a stable vice, the kind of market you are aiming at will contain a lot of livery clients and novice riders, most of whom will have told to never buy anything with a vice.
Of course if this horse had the potential to go a lot further it would be quite different, in my experience there is much more acceptance or expectation of stable vices higher up the levels.

On a personal level, windsucking would never bother me, but weaving would and I wouldn't look at a known weaver.
 
Well, I went to a lecture by an Animal Health boffin where he said often the horses that showed stereotypies often were the same highly strung animals that excelled in their disciplines....
I would buy it...but would give it nothing but forage based feed...hay, haylage, chaff, beet, alfabeet and so on...and I'd chuck it out 24/7.
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Edited to add: apologies for any missing letters/typos...I've got crumbs stuck under a lot of my letter keys...
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thanks for comments everyone its been really helpful i,ll hang on to him for a few days and see if lady on yard is serious about him if not i will return him to owner , its a ruddy shame hes a really nice horse and if he hadnt been bought to sell on he,d stay , a lesson learned i think , i will up my original budget and look for something more generally saleable
tracy
 
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My horses live out 24/7 so if everything else was OK with them I've never worried about stable vices as long as they ar enot detrimental to health.

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Problem is that a lot of horses with vices still do it out in the field! A cribber I had still did it in the field (on fence posts), although yes it was better than if she were stabled. And Ive known horses who weave in the stable, do so just as much outside and it can be very detrimental to their health (the one Im thinking of was PTS).
 
Oops, sorry just read that you've made a decision maggiehorse!

It is a shame as he does sound rather nice. You could find a home for him, but it could take a while thats all as vices put so many peole off nowadays.
 
I've got a great old guy at my yard who cribs. But he's such a nice safe and honest horse that he still has a reasonably monetary value. It is less than without this "vice" though, so if selling horses is a business for you then I guess from a business point of view you shouldn't keep this one. You could more profitably put your time in to a horse that will make you more money.
 
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