A dressage/rollkur post

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Have read plenty about rollkur and I think it's one of those things you either can go along with or can't. Personally, I see no issue with it (providing it stays within the limits of good riding - light contact and all, not forced and tense and such) and I'd much rather see this than people whipping their horses and yanking them around etc.
I also see it as a way of teaching the horse to be more obedient by allowing the rider to have a greater degree of control over the placing of their head/neck set, flexible and would work muscles more thoroughly as it obviously makes the horse work differently to how it would normally.
A little like how some people can learn to become flexible - by doing a little at a time you increase the amount of flexibility - I imagine that by gradually lowering the horses head, eventually it will be capable of holding such a position as in the photo. I can't see it being something done instantly.

Hmm. I don't know. I can't say that I'd consider myself knowledgeable to actually attempt the method myself (would not like to see it done wrong, heh) and I don't know of anyone who's actually used the method. And I'm very tired so probably making no sense xD Oh well... I'll go and sleep...

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But Sol, surely if you train the horse correctly and with classical principles in the first place then you shouldn't have to teach the horse to be more obedient or where to put its head? If you train it correctly with lateral work and actually engaging the backend, he will naturally hold himself in the right place and be flexible?

Rollkur is just a short cut.
 
I hate to see it as well and certainly do not condone it but very little is changed in this world by getting irate with people, much as we want to. I would have loved to have grabbed the bloke off the horse and inflicted the same on him but what would that have achieved? Nothing, 'cos harsh reality is horse would have gone home with him and continued to be ridden in exactly the same way. Are you saying you would have behaved differently? Would you have approached him about riding the horse in this way? Serious question and I'm genuinely interested to know what you would have done.
 
I may be wrong, but I believe it is all about extreme submission. When a horse has its head in a certain position (ie extremely round and nose close to the neck or chest) it is similar to putting someone in a half-nelson. If that person does not struggle, it is a comfortable position for them to be in. If they resist, the person holding the arm can lift it higher, causing discomfort that the other person cannot escape from unless they relax.
It is the same for the horse. If he resists when his head and neck are in that position, the rider can apply a bit of pressure which the horse has no option but to submit to (either that or lie down!). While working in this way, the rider can ask for greater expression, flexibility and impulsion due to the fact that the horse has less ability to resist.
The horse and rider appear very relaxed during this work due to the fact that the horse learns it is pointess to resist.
Not sure I could work a horse this way with a clear conscience.
 
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I hate to see it as well and certainly do not condone it but very little is changed in this world by getting irate with people, much as we want to. I would have loved to have grabbed the bloke off the horse and inflicted the same on him but what would that have achieved? Nothing, 'cos harsh reality is horse would have gone home with him and continued to be ridden in exactly the same way. Are you saying you would have behaved differently? Would you have approached him about riding the horse in this way? Serious question and I'm genuinely interested to know what you would have done.

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It's a really interesting question actually. I'd lost this post so only just seen your question when someone brought the post back to the top. I'd like to think I would have said something but in reality, I don't know, which is the sad thing about it I think.

As for how you change things...maybe we can't change things by getting irate but the more people who realise how horrible this practise is, the more people will hopefully stand up to trainers who want them to work their horses this way in lessons, and the more people will realise that this is not the correct (or humane!) way to train a horse.

It's such a minefield because when you do this as a hobby, like the majority of us on here do, it's easy to say that these types of training methods are a short cut but I suppose when there are large sums of money involved (as there are when people do this for a living) then I guess it becomes easier to justify it to yourself. Riders at this level need results, and quickly. And I guess that's what it's all about, for them.

The poster below commented that it is about extreme submission which I think is correct. Something else I read (possibly on Sustainable Dressage but I'd have to go back and check) talks about it being a form of humiliation. Tie the horse's head down and make him feel worthless (apologies for anthropomorphosising, I can't think of a more appropriate word right now) so that he doesn't think to fight it...

I think the whole subject is a really interesting debate and the book, Tug of War, is worth everyone's time to read. The horse may not find this method of training uncomfortable if he continues to submit but it is so anatomically wrong and damaging
crazy.gif
 
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