a few horse questions for horsey people?

ShowJumperBeckii

ShowJumperBeckii

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i just have a few questions of that i was thinking about when i was riding today :)

1.how much would a 16hh + under 7 all rounder cost? to me horses seem alot of money at the moment
2.is a hackamore THAT dangerous?
3. a pelham without the curb chain, is that just a snaffle?
4. if im 5.9ft [going to make 5.11ft] 10 1/2 stone whats the smallest horse and i can get?
5.best way to get a outline? just keep pratice or use stuff like bungies?
6. i was told when i put my bungie on my horse that there a waste of money and dont do anything? do they or am i wasting my time with one?
7.what happens when you get to a jump and your on a bad stride?


just ramdom im not going to use any of this stuff [apart from bungie] just ramdonly was thinking today :)
 
1. Start at £3,500 and go anywhere up from there
2. In the right hands, no, but very strong in the wrong hands depending on the length of leverage
3. No, the lower rein position will lever the mouthpiece differently and exert pressure on the poll
4. Depends on whether your height is in your body or legs, you can start at a deep 15hh and go up from there
5. Training with a good instructor, it is more about using your legs correctly to send the horse forward into the contact than worrying about how you are going to tuck in the nose - once the horse is moving correctly from behind and over the back, the front will sort itself out
6. Yes, see above
7. You will either get in too deep and go vertical, or take off early. I prefer the early option
 
1) Depends, I'd say starting in the region of £3,000 upwards, although could be less if you were willing to put up with stable vices or cosmetic scars or something...

2) No, they're not particularly dangerous, although depends on the rider and length of leverage.

3) haha i don't know

4) Weight wise, you could ride anything from a cobby 14.2 upwards - height wise, if you've got short legs, then chunky 15hh upwards, if you've got long legs, 16hh upwards - I'm 5 ft 7 with really long legs, I don't feel comfortable on anything under 16hh, prefer 16.2s...at 5 ft 11 really you want a 16.2

5) agree with the watcher, you need to concentrate on sending the horse forward and creating impulsion by squeezing with your legs, and then having soft, steady hands that hold his movement and don't let him run away. Sometimes gently squeezing or sponging the reins helps to soften the contact, as does lifting the hands, the lower you hold your hands, the stronger the bitting action.

6) Yeah, generally they don't really do anything, you're much better to work with your horse using your legs to hands first, he should soften into the contact if you're pushing him forwards and holding him softly at the front.

7) Ummm, well usually it'll be a horrible jump to sit to, and you'll either end up way too infront of the action or way too behind! If you've got an honest horse that is, if your horse puts in sneaky stops it's the perfect opportunity for him to...best to sit tight lol

:)
 
1. anything from 3.5k + i would say
2.i am not sure about that one
3. i am useless!! i dont think it is, no
4. i would say about 15.2 although you might be a bit tall .. i am 5'3 and can comfortable ride a 17hh :D
5.draw reins can be used but i think the best way is a lot of flat-work practice gradually asking them to drop their nose and collect through the hand and seat :)
6. ? sorree!!
7.i absolutly hate this!! well i find that if you 'see' the stride (takes practice) helps a lot but if you count the 3 strides in then you will be able to correct the horse/pony. if the are comming in to short the tend to get underneath and knock a pole, if you are to forward you may take of to early and also knock a pole. Hitting the correct stride is not essential until you are jumping higher more tricky courses.
 
There is nothing wrong with using a pelham without a curb chain, but you will lose the curb action, still have a tiny bit of poll action, but yes you are right the action without curb would be similar to a straight bar snaffle!
 
1. Depends if you want a project or not. Or how young you are willing to go. About 3k+
2. In good hands no its not.
3. I dont think so but i'm not that knowledgeable about pelhams as I dont use them.
4. The smaller the horse, the more cobby you could have. So maybe 14.2 cobby sort? Depends what you are comfortable on aswell. Some tall people dont like riding small horses.
5. You gotta ride the horse forwards into a contact but that doesnt mean riding fast. It needs to be contained energy and the energy not running out the nose. I'd suggest getting a good instructor who can teach you this. I dont believe in using aids like bungies to ride in as I think people rely on them too much. After all they cant be used in a dressage test!
6. What are you trying to achieve with the bungie? They can help keep a horses head in but if the hindquarters arent engaged then it is causing a false outline. I use training aids to lunge in as they help balance the horse and improves its way of going without a rider interfering.
7. If you have an honest horse either kick for a long jump or you will get deep. Not so honest horses will stop. You need to practice seeing a stride and being able to lengthen and shorten your horses stride so you meet the fence on a good one. That is what all the pros do.

I need to practice seeing a stride as I often meet fences on a bad stride! My last mare was really good and would always try to jump, never stopped. Havent jumped my new boy since the viewing though. Also need to work on him going in a correct outline when I get my saddle adjusted to fit properly. :)
 
1. anything from 3k
2. in the wrong hands, yes.
3. it depends whether you're using it with double reins. if you ride off the top rein I imagine it would be similar to a snaffle, but I'm certainly no expert!
4. you could start from a heavy cob type 14.2hh or finer type 15/15.2hh I would think.
5. you need to ride a pony forwards from behind, engaging their hindquarters, into a contact, so no you shouldn't use bungies etc because, unless you are keeping the horse active & forwards they will just force the head down and not engage the back & hindlegs. again I'm no expert. :o
6. i'm sure they aren't completely a waste of money but they can only be used effectively in the right hands, i guess.
7. depends what you want to happen! you can hold back and put in a short stride or push on for a long stride. either way you risk a stop/refusal/knock down but an honest horse will still jump.
 
1.3-4k+
2.In the wrong hands can be harmful, someone with a soft contact that is trained in the use no!

3. If you have the rein on the first ring its action is like a snaffle if you have the reing on the lower ring it will put pressure on the poll and act like a pelham/gag.
4. Id say 14hh if the horse is cob type with lots of bone, I'd say 15.2 if you have finer horse with less bone.
5.Before you can create an outline the horse should be balanced and have a rhythmical movement, once you have that you can squeeze with your lower leg into your hand just like squeezing a tube of toothpaste! Pretending there is a sponge in your hand and playing with the rein softly will help the lowering of the horses head and soften the contact. Bungies can help but horse can evade correct action and just lower there head. They may not have empulsion, rhythm, balance or elasticity from there hind quaters.
6. Just depends on how it is used!
7.The horse will either correct itself, stop, or try then demolish the fence nodoubt you may be beyond or behind the movement, which will unbalance horse and rider.
 
rosiefronfelen said:
BSJA Showjumper 123, i suggest you have a few lessons on different aspects of horse owning and management as the questions you are asking could be detrimental to your horse.
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Lessons would be a very good idea-it's good that she is asking but if you feel ready to be out BSJA then you should be past needing to...

As for #7,most riders will go splat ;) A good stride is essential for the horse to be able to produce the jump you need and while a good one will be able to sort itself out and still get over,it will be out of balance and is very unfair on the horse.
 
1.how much would a 16hh + under 7 all rounder cost? to me horses seem alot of money at the moment

Erm, right now, either nothing (to you) or the earth (to you) - simply because by the sounds of things, nobody in their right mind is going to sell you said horse presuming that you actually want something that has actually got a competition record and is ready made - therefore likely to be sensitive to some degree. They probably wouldn't see it as being worth their while.

2.is a hackamore THAT dangerous?

Simply put, yes. Too much pressure on it and a lot of horses would probably put you on the floor very quickly - therefore, to you, yes they are dangerous. Falling off usually hurts.

3. a pelham without the curb chain, is that just a snaffle?

No. It is a pelham without a curb chain, clearly. You will simply increase the poll pressure I presume, as there would be no curb to limit the rotation of the shanks.

4. if im 5.9ft [going to make 5.11ft] 10 1/2 stone whats the smallest horse and i can get?

I thought the one you already had was big enough? There's your answer.

5.best way to get a outline? just keep pratice or use stuff like bungies?

The best way = the correct way. Riding the horse from the leg into a consistent contact, and teaching the horse self carriage. 'Outline' does not equal 'nose tucked in'. I am seriously concerned that you do not know this, of all things, if you are doing BSJA.

6. i was told when i put my bungie on my horse that there a waste of money and dont do anything? do they or am i wasting my time with one?

That would depend on why you are using one. Do you understand what a bungee, or any particular '**training** **aid**' (note the 'training' and 'aid' parts - training your horse to do something in particular, and an aid being something that asks the horse to do something!) actually does? I think you are probably just wasting your time, full stop.

7.what happens when you get to a jump and your on a bad stride?
You mean you've never reached a jump on a bad stride? Well, your horse will either chip in a short stride, leave out a stride, go for whatever stride it's on and take the whole jump with it (which my lad will happily do if you fail to get it right!) and as a result, the rider will either a) think quickly & instictively go with the horse, not interfering and enabling the horse to do it's best to clear the jump anyway b) get left behind or flung out of the saddle, unbalancing the horse, probably causing the horse to have a pole and probably causing the horse a degree of pain, which potentially leads to stops/run outs in the future or c) the rider will fall off. A rider who consistently puts a horse at jumps on the wrong stride risks knocking the horses confidence even.

They are my brutally honest answers.

Can I advise that you visit your local library & pick up some horse books, or join a local Pony Club & start earning your badges & doing the tests, or sit the very easy BHS Horse Ownership tests? These will at least give you a start on the horse ownership & management parts that your knowledge is lacking, and also information about tack. When you know about these things, I think you might be ready to further your knowledge ON your horse. If you don't know what tools you're using, you're likely to struggle anyway ;)
 
Agree with Sol.
1.how much would a 16hh + under 7 all rounder cost? to me horses seem alot of money at the moment

And they cost a LOT more to keep - Buying the horse is the cheap part. You shouldnt even begin to think of buying a horse if you cant afford to keep it. Work out what it will cost you each month MINIMUM and work out how much you can afford to spend on BUYING the horse.

2.is a hackamore THAT dangerous?
Yes. In the wrong hands, lethal. If you pull too hard/too much likely hood is horse will go over backwards = landing on you. I suspect I dont need to tell you what the outcome will be like if a half ton horse lands on you.

3. a pelham without the curb chain, is that just a snaffle?
What a very silly question! Of course not, it is a pelham without a curb. You dont always HAVE to ride with a curb, sometimes the actual bit is enough.


4. if im 5.9ft [going to make 5.11ft] 10 1/2 stone whats the smallest horse and i can get?
A toy horse.

5.best way to get a outline? just keep pratice or use stuff like bungies?
The correct way - work hard and do not use quick fixes to achieve a pretty picture. A pretty picture is good on the wall, but useless when actually used.

6. i was told when i put my bungie on my horse that there a waste of money and dont do anything? do they or am i wasting my time with one?
Waste of time, unless you are using it for a good reason. If you are just putting it on to achieve an outline, then waste. If however you are using it to compliment your training sessions, and using it correctly, then they can be useful, as with any gadget - but they are just that - a quick fix.

7.what happens when you get to a jump and your on a bad stride?
You need to make a choice, quickly - push for a long or hold for a short.
There is NO such thing as a bad stride - only a poor quality canter.
 
Sol said:
1.how much would a 16hh + under 7 all rounder cost? to me horses seem alot of money at the moment

Erm, right now, either nothing (to you) or the earth (to you) - simply because by the sounds of things, nobody in their right mind is going to sell you said horse presuming that you actually want something that has actually got a competition record and is ready made - therefore likely to be sensitive to some degree. They probably wouldn't see it as being worth their while.

2.is a hackamore THAT dangerous?

Simply put, yes. Too much pressure on it and a lot of horses would probably put you on the floor very quickly - therefore, to you, yes they are dangerous. Falling off usually hurts.

3. a pelham without the curb chain, is that just a snaffle?

No. It is a pelham without a curb chain, clearly. You will simply increase the poll pressure I presume, as there would be no curb to limit the rotation of the shanks.

4. if im 5.9ft [going to make 5.11ft] 10 1/2 stone whats the smallest horse and i can get?

I thought the one you already had was big enough? There's your answer.

5.best way to get a outline? just keep pratice or use stuff like bungies?

The best way = the correct way. Riding the horse from the leg into a consistent contact, and teaching the horse self carriage. 'Outline' does not equal 'nose tucked in'. I am seriously concerned that you do not know this, of all things, if you are doing BSJA.

6. i was told when i put my bungie on my horse that there a waste of money and dont do anything? do they or am i wasting my time with one?

That would depend on why you are using one. Do you understand what a bungee, or any particular '**training** **aid**' (note the 'training' and 'aid' parts - training your horse to do something in particular, and an aid being something that asks the horse to do something!) actually does? I think you are probably just wasting your time, full stop.

7.what happens when you get to a jump and your on a bad stride?
You mean you've never reached a jump on a bad stride? Well, your horse will either chip in a short stride, leave out a stride, go for whatever stride it's on and take the whole jump with it (which my lad will happily do if you fail to get it right!) and as a result, the rider will either a) think quickly & instictively go with the horse, not interfering and enabling the horse to do it's best to clear the jump anyway b) get left behind or flung out of the saddle, unbalancing the horse, probably causing the horse to have a pole and probably causing the horse a degree of pain, which potentially leads to stops/run outs in the future or c) the rider will fall off. A rider who consistently puts a horse at jumps on the wrong stride risks knocking the horses confidence even.

They are my brutally honest answers.

Can I advise that you visit your local library & pick up some horse books, or join a local Pony Club & start earning your badges & doing the tests, or sit the very easy BHS Horse Ownership tests? These will at least give you a start on the horse ownership & management parts that your knowledge is lacking, and also information about tack. When you know about these things, I think you might be ready to further your knowledge ON your horse. If you don't know what tools you're using, you're likely to struggle anyway ;)
Click to expand...

Yay - someone who knows what they are talking about - well done Sol! 100% agreement.
 
I think that asking these questions is a good thing, to learn and gain knowledge from other members of this forum. BUT I do think that your user name suprises me when you dont know how to see a stride or have any idea about a missed stride. TBH I think that you should go back to basics and learn how to ride before you have any more delusions about being a showjumper. Sorry to sound harsh but your posts sound very unworldly to me.
 
pastie2 said:
I think that asking these questions is a good thing, to learn and gain knowledge from other members of this forum. BUT I do think that your user name suprises me when you dont know how to see a stride or have any idea about a missed stride. TBH I think that you should go back to basics and learn how to ride before you have any more delusions about being a showjumper. Sorry to sound harsh but your posts sound very unworldly to me.
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I agree with what pastie says. But I also think your username has become like a red rag to a bull. I mean this in the nicest possible way. Every time you post, people are likely to be overharsh given some of the threads earlier on in your HHO life. If I were you I would start afresh with a new username, not refer to your previous posts or horse specifically, and continue asking questions in a sensible manner. You will learn a lot and as long as you don't antagonise people, you will get stacks of sensible and constructive feedback. Good luck. :)
 
1. Totally depends. I'd suggest from £2,500 upwards.
2. Hackamores aren't "dangerous" as such, but like any piece of equipment - used wrongly it'll cause big problems. People tend to only use these if their horse has a problem with bits.
3. Erm, not sure what you mean. I guess if you didnt use a curb and used just one rein on the main ring it would sort of have the effect of a snaffle.
4. Depends on the horses build as well, not just height. I am about same height as you and I feel slightly too big on my slim-built TB x who's 16hh yet I felt fine on a 15.2hh Welsh Cob.
5. Get lessons.
6. If you have to ask what a piece of equipment does then you shouldn't be using it!!
7. Shouldn't you know this? I thought you jumped, I imagine you haven't always got the perfect stride?!
 
1.I wouldn't be buying a young horse in the position you're in at the minute, I'd get yourself some lessons, get them to help you steady your hands, improve your flatwork and jumping, or otherwise your risking screwing up a young horse, who may not be as forgiving as Ebony.
2. In the wrong hands, not dangerous, but you could hurt your horse, especially if the shanks are long, so I wouldn't be looking into using one either.
3. I would guess the lever action could be more extreme
4. Whatever you have at the minute seems fine
5. Get lessons, get help from someone who knows what they're doing, rather than using gadgets you aren't sure how to use
6. They do do something, but if you don't know what it does, why bother using it??
7. An honest horse, if the rider allows them to, gets themselves out of trouble, whether shortening or lengthening the strides, or knocking the pole etc., if the rider gets in the way, they'll go crashing through the jump. If the horse isn't honest, it'll stop, simple as.

I'm surprised you don't know the majority of this, seeing as you've used a pelham, jump, so must have gotten a bad stride before, and say you've used a bungee, so would hope you know how to use it, and what exactly it does...
 
Sorry to hijack post slightly but just a question to the people who've said a pelham is still a pelham without the curb..... If you were to ride off the top rein only (no idea why you would want to and no I'm not going to or have done in the past) would the pelham then act like a snaffle? I just can't see how if would produce a 'pelham' action if you were to ride like that :confused: Thanks :)
 
If you use only the top rein, with no curb chain attached, then the action is that of a hanging cheek snaffle.
 
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