A general musing. Do you think...

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LankyDoodle

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Do you think that there are some people, horse owners and other, who believe, TRULY believe, that they know better than vets who have spent at least 5 years of their life training and then probably longer to train in a specialist area (not to mention their years of experience, conferences they have been to etc)?

I ask this in regards to my rabbit actually, rather than my horse. My poor giant rabbit Zebedee, is really struggling at the moment and suffering semi-paralysis in his hind legs. My normal vets are fantastic and have done a great job of narrowing it all down to a certain thing. He's had xrays, bloods, examinations; he's been treated for parasites and he's had ear drops to ensure there are no ear problems. Most things were eliminated and I was worrying about it all so went on a rabbit website to ask if anyone else had any experience (not for a diagnosis). I typed out a great long post about how it wasn't X Y or Z because vet had ruled it out. I also stated that the vet was referring us to a rabbit specialist at the vet school.

Honestly, you'd think I'd committed murder just because I'd actually dared to TRUST my lovely vet who is very experienced. The xrays showed no damage and he could not have this EC thingy which is a parasite that can cause paralysis, but they knew better and were telling me the vet was wrong and it must be this, and 'your vet is telling you to overdose your rabbit with Metacam'. My rabbit weighs a lot and is not being overdosed, but then I get a barage of links from one woman about CATS that have been killed by Metacam - rabbits can take 6x the dog dose for their weight!

I don't know about anyone else, but on the whole I trust my vet, especially when I have seen an expert rabbit vet of 20+ years, and my own research (reading articles etc); and although I do occasionally get a hunch and pursue it with my vet (like I did when my horse was sick last year), I don't for one minute believe I know the first thing about vet medicine!

I asked for advice on here about my horse last year (in the vet forum) and received a wealth of great advice, but not once did anyone tell me that my vet or I were doing things 'wrong'. I have found other forums, generally for other animals, where people seem to think they are experts just because they have owned a certain animal for a few years or whatever. We all, as horse owners, must know the basics, but do you think some people just think they know better than vets?

It cooks my swede to be perfectly honest with you!
 
Oh God yes....there were a couple of people on my yard a few years ago....long story short...small pony with nasal discharge, didn't like her face being touched, very tender. I was thinking sinus pain/infection....vet came out and thought the same.....antibiotics and all cleared up no problem.

I asked him did he think it was strangles, just to be sure...although no enlarged lymph nodes or anything. He said no, def not strangles...she has sinus pain and infection so treat as such, keep her out in the fresh air she's not contagious.

Good grief...you should have heard some of them.....I had obviously got a shonkey vet who didnt know what he was talking about....I had a row with one of them and asked her when she had done her 6/7 years training or whatever that enabled her to know better.

Stangely enough vet was right
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I agrree with your point entirely, LankyDoodle, but will add the caveat that owners can and will spot things that a vet will miss - we know when our animal is 'not quite right' even if there are no real symptoms to speak of. Apart from that, vets win every time.
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I knew better than my vet when my cat went lame.

Vet said cat had landed funny when she jumped and wouldn’t x ray as vet said it wasn’t broken. I was positive cat had been shot, vet disagreed.

Poor cat was lame for several months, could walk with a limp but couldn’t run at all. He was in for something else and they x rayed him. Guess what? Three shot gun pellets were embedded in his leg.

The vet said they couldn’t do anything about it as it had been too long.

Poor old kitty was run over a few weeks after, he couldn’t run to get out of the way.

ETA: Must admit that 99.9% of the time the vets are right, but if I have an opinion and a feeling about something I will question their diagnosis
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My vet loves me
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We had a livery once, who had her first horse age 43. She had every horse book going, and was of course, an expert.
It was wet, and both mine and her horse got mud fever. I was keeping my horse's legs clean and dry which is what I was told in pony club, and of course my mum is my main source of knowledge.
Of course the livery said I was wrong, and when the vet gave a similar diognosis he was also wrong.
She washed the horses legs and bandaged them damp- damp warm legs all night, the horse's mud fever got worse, raw and bleeding, I mean WHY would you not listen to a vet who has done specific equine training?!
 
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LOL! That's exactly what I mean. And it's usually the people who know nothing who have to spout off about how much they think they know! Grrrr!

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Exactly so...these people never had any vets out....mainly because they could'nt afford it and also because they owed money to every practice within a 30 mile radius. So they never got the vet out....BUT....if anybody else on the yard did they would hover about and get 'freebie' advice from the vet.

I once asked my vet to split my call-out with them, as they were known to the practice and they had had about 20mins worth of discussion time from the vet when she came to x-ray my horse...she couldnt make a fast get away as she was packing all her equipment away....they got a bill for half a call-out and were absolutely outraged.....I was laughing my head off.
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Unfortunatly the world is full of people who know best. I don't understand how you cannot see the benifit of a professional who has studied for years, and practiced, seeing more in a week than most people see in a year and still belive they know best!

Having said that vets do make mistakes but that doesn't justify some of the things you are talking about.

I did see somting the other day on horse and country that made me think: it was an old north eastern chap who had horses for ever, he had a pony that had somthing wrong with its stifle (I think). He had a remedy for fixing it, the vet who was there and he was clearly on good terms with didn't agree with him. Anyway, he did what he did, and it worked, pony was sound, vet was astounded! I think what I am trying to say is that sometimes there are other ways of treating but I still belive you must trust your vet.

Sorry this was longer than I expected
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I think the people that verbalise like that are usually the ones that have had a bad experience with a vet and an incorrect diagnosis. Rightly so though, they shouldn't abuse what you have posted and demand that they know better, but I should imagine they are so vocal about it because of the pain they have suffered.

At the end of the day, vast amounts of training or not, vets are only human and make mistakes like the rest of us. I always ask my vets opinon and do as you do and research from other sources as I find it can help to understand everything that you are dealing with (or turn you in to a paranoid wreck!).

Even the most experienced vets can become fixated on something and not see the wood for the trees. I am not saying I know more about veterinary medicine by any stretch, but I do know more about my animals and sometimes I get the impression some vets do not take in all of the details that will help them to get to the bottom of the problem and I have been stung a couple of times in this scenario.

I have a brilliant vet now who listens intently to me and puts up with all of my questions as he knows I am a serial 'googler' but I would never assume I know more than he as that is very rocky ground and once he has answered all of my worries then I treat as suggested and follow his advice.

So I think basically after my war and peace moment there; I am pretty much on your line of thinking...
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But also saying that it doesn't hurt to ask the questions of them sometimes if you don't feel satisfied with the opinion or understand why they have come to that conclusion.
 
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I knew better than my vet when my cat went lame.

Vet said cat had landed funny when she jumped and wouldn’t x ray as vet said it wasn’t broken. I was positive cat had been shot, vet disagreed.

Poor cat was lame for several months, could walk with a limp but couldn’t run at all. He was in for something else and they x rayed him. Guess what? Three shot gun pellets were embedded in his leg.

The vet said they couldn’t do anything about it as it had been too long.

Poor old kitty was run over a few weeks after, he couldn’t run to get out of the way.

ETA: Must admit that 99.9% of the time the vets are right, but if I have an opinion and a feeling about something I will question their diagnosis
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My vet loves me
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I do agree with the fact that we often know our animal best, when they are not right, what could be wrong; but it's those that come to you and say 'you are wrong, your vet's wrong and the research is wrong; I am right and you are killing your animal by overdosing it'. It gets me right where it irritates.

We all know OUR animals best, but I take offence at people on this rabbit forum in particular!

Also, last year, when my mare had laminitis, one woman at the yard (non-horsey but married to horsey man, in their 50s/60s) took it upon herself to quiz my vet AT A PARTY about my horse's condition. She then made up info and told everyone on the yard, despite the info being untrue and so clearly not coming from my vet! What business was it of hers anyway!?
 
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I think the people that verbalise like that are usually the ones that have had a bad experience with a vet and an incorrect diagnosis. Rightly so though, they shouldn't abuse what you have posted and demand that they know better, but I should imagine they are so vocal about it because of the pain they have suffered.

At the end of the day, vast amounts of training or not, vets are only human and make mistakes like the rest of us. I always ask my vets opinon and do as you do and research from other sources as I find it can help to understand everything that you are dealing with (or turn you in to a paranoid wreck!).

Even the most experienced vets can become fixated on something and not see the wood for the trees. I am not saying I know more about veterinary medicine by any stretch, but I do know more about my animals and sometimes I get the impression some vets do not take in all of the details that will help them to get to the bottom of the problem and I have been stung a couple of times in this scenario.

I have a brilliant vet now who listens intently to me and puts up with all of my questions as he knows I am a serial 'googler' but I would never assume I know more than he as that is very rocky ground and once he has answered all of my worries then I treat as suggested and follow his advice.

So I think basically after my war and peace moment there; I am pretty much on your line of thinking...
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But also saying that it doesn't hurt to ask the questions of them sometimes if you don't feel satisfied with the opinion or understand why they have come to that conclusion.

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I do ask lots of different opinions and then take them to my vet, but some of these people were people who were just saying it because they seem themself as the forum rabbit expert. We have all had bad experiences with vets, but like you say, they are only human - they're just more human than the rest of us!
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I would always take my research to my vet and talk to them about it; and we have actually been referred to a rabbit vet who has specialised in rabbits for over 20 years. However, these forum experts still seem to think they know best, saying that I am stupid giving my rabbit metacam in such a high dose and my vet is clearly a bit wet behind the ears!! WHO ARE THEY TO SAY THAT!?

My vet has exhausted all avenues, and they do the same with my horses. I agree with you that vets can become fixated, and that is when our knoweldge of our own animals is very helpful.
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