A homebred racehorse?

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jamesmead

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I've followed Angrove Rumbaba's career with a lot of interest; impressed not just by the horse and the show he has put up against full thoroughbreds, but impressed also by the vision, enthusiasm and just plain courage of his owners and by the support they received from some parts of the racing community in the face of a sneering attitude from others; as has been apparent on here.

I thought, I would love to do that myself; see a homebred race without subjecting it to the less attractive aspects of the racing machine - the breeding snobbery or the institutionalism that seems to exist in some yards. Plus it would need to be affordable.

Mine would be TB, nothing as imagination-catching as Rummy, and it isn't even on the ground yet, but how would a small-time breeder and owner do this? How does it all work? Which yards are small-breeder / amateur friendly and realise that breeding your own horse is the important bit for a breeder and yes, the horse is family; and no, you don't want a share of their bought-in prospects?
 
My advice would have to be don't do it unless you have a lot of money and ard happy if it comes to nothing. Lots of racehorses are owner bred and a few one horseowners will suceed in their dream but not many and there's alot of potential heartache on the way.
If you really want to have a go then make sure your broodmare and stallion are the best you can afford and good luck !
 
Thanks Bonny - of course no-one with any sense would be seeing this - or horse breeding at all - as an infallible get-rich-quick scheme or a fool-proof path to glory. But I think for an owner-breeder part of the dream is doing it at all.

As for breeding, it isn't really a matter of "the best you can afford" so much as "the best you can find" and a matter of matching the strengths of sire and dam. Money helps, of course, but if it were purely decided on money you could dispense with the horses and just compare bank balances.

And that's the thing, I think. You'd need a yard which didn't write off a horse or give it second-class opportunities because it was unfashionably bred but looked at the animal in front of them and considered how best to campaign it within the constraints of welfare and budget.
 
Are you thinking about a flat racehorse or national hunt ? Jumping pedigree isn't as important but on the flat it's everything and as a one horse owner I would certainly aim for a jumping horse. Any yard apart from the top ones would take your horse, that's their business after all and most will do their best with whatever horses they've got.
It's something I've thought about doing with mares that I've had in the past but it's a long term dream and fraught with difficulties ! Alot easier to just buy someone elses youngstock although the thrill of seeing your homebred horse doing well would be amazing.....
 
jamesmead said:
I've followed Angrove Rumbaba's career with a lot of interest; impressed not just by the horse and the show he has put up against full thoroughbreds, but impressed also by the vision, enthusiasm and just plain courage of his owners and by the support they received from some parts of the racing community in the face of a sneering attitude from others; as has been apparent on here.

I thought, I would love to do that myself; see a homebred race without subjecting it to the less attractive aspects of the racing machine - the breeding snobbery or the institutionalism that seems to exist in some yards. Plus it would need to be affordable.

Mine would be TB, nothing as imagination-catching as Rummy, and it isn't even on the ground yet, but how would a small-time breeder and owner do this? How does it all work? Which yards are small-breeder / amateur friendly and realise that breeding your own horse is the important bit for a breeder and yes, the horse is family; and no, you don't want a share of their bought-in prospects?
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Jamesmead Thank you for such generous words about Rummy and our dream we loved every moment and we plan on breeding for the flat, as it just has to be done, I to am amazed & moved by how many people Rummy has touched.

I really think it is all about the right mare and the best stallion to suit that mare and the sires dam and also the fact we were incredibly lucky with Rummys Mum but also Riccos sires dam was a group placed and was also a dam of group 1 winners and grandam of Group 1 winners the large heart gene is what your looking for but this can only be passed from father to daughter or mother to son or daughter you need to be looking for horses that carry that dominate trait,I did years of looking at Bond Angel eyes pedigree and kept adding to it as her sister and dam had been exported all over the world USA Italy India this kept renforcing the fact that this pedigree had high merit as Rummy is a nephew to the Indian Gold cup winner listed winners in Italy and also group winners in the USA all coming from his dam sisters they nearly all have produced winners.
It is worth spending the money on the weatherbys reports and also the Equineline in the USA to but the racing stats to formulate your knowledge as to what can be expected from the horse.
As far as friendly yards are concerned Micky Hammonds and also Chris Grant welcomed Rummy and told it like it was i was met with both honesty and Integrity trust is the must valuable thing when your horse is away from home I have moved rummy in the past due to lack of it ! if you need any advice please get in touch Good Luck and I will see you trackside as we have Angrove Fatrascal next for the flat xxx :D
 
Just go into the whole endevour with open eyes, the realisation that there's many who never make into training never mind as far as the track. There's an incredible thrill in seeing your homebred run (and much less likely, win or place).

- From a small time breeder
 
To put a toe in the water you could always start point to pointing, the amateur side of national hunt which is pretty friendly too. You could always do the fittening work yourself and send to a proper yard for the fast work/training which gives you a much more hands on aspect than if you just send to a yard.
 
It can be done but you need a good mare and a lot of luck. Dubacilla comes to mind she was home bred and was a half sister to Just So who was 2nd in the Grand National. Dubacilla had a very high class track record and she bred some good horses including Dare to Dream and Mister Quaissomodo who were successful but not as much as she was. Dubacilla was owned by a farmer whojust liked a few horses about the place, she was originally trained under permit but as she got successful she was sent to David Nicholson.

http://www.pedigreequery.com/dubacilla
 
Thanks to those who have replied; it would have to be flat for me as I'm afraid I hate watching NH - it would be exhilerating to actually ride in something like that - I rather like the point-to-point idea though I doubt my own capability - but I just don't fancy the anxiety of being a jumping owner, watching without the power to say "OK, you're too tired - time to pull up".

Some good pointers there (forgive the pun) and something I would really like to do in the future.

That last pedigree is quite something! No wonder it produced a good horse!
 
jamesmead said:
Thanks to those who have replied; it would have to be flat for me as I'm afraid I hate watching NH - it would be exhilerating to actually ride in something like that - I rather like the point-to-point idea though I doubt my own capability - but I just don't fancy the anxiety of being a jumping owner, watching without the power to say "OK, you're too tired - time to pull up".

Some good pointers there (forgive the pun) and something I would really like to do in the future.

That last pedigree is quite something! No wonder it produced a good horse!
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Seriously the chances of breeding a flat horse as a one off with little experience that even gets to the races is so small that it's not worth thinking about. A National Hunt horse is entirely possible and don't worry about watching a jockey riding a tired horse and not pulling up ...they always do, it's in their interest after all to not carry on jumping a horse who is out of contention.
 
I've said it before but my Grandpa owned one mare and with her offspring he won at Goodwood, so it is possible. He did have plenty of money although she was nothing special the sire was Bahamian Bounty. He bred 8 in total, the other 7 are all off doing other non racing jobs and were all pretty useless, but compared to the big names thats pretty good odds.
 
The people that I work for have bred about 10 thoroughbreds to race over the past 6 years. They do it for the enjoyment of going to the races, and seeing horses that they have bred run. They have had some success - two of them have won a few races each, a couple of the others have placed well a few times. On the flip side, two have been re-homed to do a different job as they just didn't do well enough on the track, one won't be going racing as he is too nice(!), and has started training for an eventing career. This years foals are the last two racehorses that they are planning on breeding (for now at least!). I've never been into racing, but when you have a connection to a horse it really is a huge thrill to watch them run! All but one of the horses have run on the flat - so it can be done!
 
I think it is definately possible, you dont have to have loads of money to do this, you dont have to have a one million pound broodmare matched with the top expensive stallion, i.e I dont know about the rest of the Uk but next door we have Norse dancer, he is an immaculate looking stallion when you meet him in the flesh, with awesome conformation, he has already produced listed/placed winners when his stud fee was at just £1,000.... he's cheap because he's just not fashionable yet, but from a tiny pool of runners, he's done very well.. even with average mares worth little on the market, he has had winners..

To raise and train such a horse on a cheaper scale may well be better for the horse than putting it in expensive studs and in expensive training yards. Smaller cheaper yards offer MUCH more individual attention and care. A whole lot more. At the racing studs they often said that the success of a horse when it went into training would largely depend on what kind of stable lad ended up looking after the horse...wether the stable lad treated and looked after the horse like it was a champion, or wether they looked after that horse as tho it was a nobody.. that factor alone makes a world of difference in the horses success.
Word of mouth would find you the better, smaller yards that are affordable. A lot of farms raise small numbers of very valuable youngstock for just one or two owners,offering great quality care and attention on a much smaller scale, but they dont advertise, its all word of mouth.
 
Hi,
My advice is if you are going to try to breed a racehorse please do not go on pedigree alone and make sure you choose a mare and stallion that has good conformation and temperament because 'if' they are not successful by the time they are 3 or 4yo they need to be sound and trainable enough to rehome/or do another job like Eventing in the remaining 25 years of their lives.
With sooo many coming out of training that are unsuitable and only a small amount lucky enough to be suitably rehomed or retrained you have to take responsibilty of not adding to the problem and ensuring what you are responsible of bringing into the World has a good life after racing whether you keep or rehome.
It may be a good idea to buy a yearling to start off with and gain experience that way by studying pedigrees and stats....and also trainers stats and reputations...the stats you can find online and it takes months to understand them and years to gain the knowledge of them.
Yearlings aren't always millions of £'s http://www.brightwells.com/Equine/B...c49-fc47-4cd3-84be-e23326010c92&sd=11/12/2012
Re Trainers...stats and reputation and word of mouth. Smaller usually better but they have to be a good trainer whatever the size of their yard. Do they choose races/race courses carefully for each individual horse when/if it's ready ? or do they just send as many out as they can?
I sent a my colt into pre training last year and discussed fully with my trainer that he wasn't to be pushed and if not suitable I wanted him home. he kept his word and trained him beautifully but felt he wasn't mature or fast enough to win a flat race....so I brought him home and he is training to be an eventer now. My trainer said he would suit hurdling when more mature but like you said I didn't want to risk him...not so much the pulling up but the falling.
I bred him with the hope of him being successful as a racehorse but if not he has the conformation and temperament to succeed as a sporthorse...he also has a home with me for life. He is a 4yo now.
I haven't given up hope of breeding a winner one day but will always breed with Plan B in mind. I have a yearling and two foals in the wings in hope.... but I don't kid myself that they probably won't end up eventing lol :)
 
I have quite a few friends who do something like this, both here and in North America - they breed a few foals a year, at most, raise them at home, back them themselves (or at home using their regular riders) and even go as far as starting them galloping if they have the facilities.

It is possible to do without spending megabucks, relatively speaking - after all, there are races at every level and horses to fill them. BUT it is very much a numbers game. I'd say in each case perhaps only slightly more than half have actually got to a race (as in stayed sound, been fit for the job, and worth spending the money on) and had any hope of placing. If you can afford the ones that don't work out, then you can keep plugging but if you are thinking every horse will have to contribute, I'd say quit now! There is no way any of them have won what it's cost overall.

As for trainers, you shouldn't have any problem finding someone to take your money.;) Smaller yards will likely be more personal, which should be a big point for you, and have regular open days, owners viewings etc. One friend has her horses with a trainer who does a lot of low to mid end syndicates, has a lot of "small' owners and generally concentrates on a client based business. She has had horses with bigger trainers in the past and perhaps been marginally more successful but has spent a lot more and, I suspect, enjoyed it less.

One friend got so into it she eventually got her trainer's license but now only breeds a foal or two a year, if that. Her main business now is to get very inexpensive yearlings from people who have come to the realisation they can't afford them, and to claim or offer on horses she thinks she can improve. She has very good riders at home and spends a lot of time individualising the horses' programs, finding the right jocks, sorting out tack etc - very 'riding horse" stuff. She's actually had great success with this, including one she got for 1.5k that has won more than 80k!!! He has singlehandedly made up for the less successful adventures. :) On the flip side, working at the margins of the business, she has now had a number of owners and co-owners default and simply leave horses with her. :(

I would say one thing, don't go into it thinking you're going to bring something new to the party. If there is something NO ONE does, there is likely a reason for it and you have to accept there may be differences from riding horses.
 
My grandparents bred TBs at home....started off with a few mares...ended up breeding Cape Merino and Group 1 winner Cape of Good Hope amongst others! They had a few broodmares and then a few in training, but it shows you can start small and it can lead to big things! You have to start somewhere!

I have a Mark of Esteem mare I hope to put to Sleeping Indian (I adored his sire Indian Ridge!), got to start somewhere. Currently still saving for the stud fee......!!

I actually got registered my racing colours this year....nothing like being (over)prepared!!
 
Mariposa said:
My grandparents bred TBs at home....started off with a few mares...ended up breeding Cape Merino and Group 1 winner Cape of Good Hope amongst others! They had a few broodmares and then a few in training, but it shows you can start small and it can lead to big things! You have to start somewhere!

I have a Mark of Esteem mare I hope to put to Sleeping Indian (I adored his sire Indian Ridge!), got to start somewhere. Currently still saving for the stud fee......!!

I actually got registered my racing colours this year....nothing like being (over)prepared!!
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Good luck with your plans but you do know that you could have just reserved your colours instead of paying for them now, because you will have to re-register and pay the fee each year from now on. Hope it all works out well for you. We've been breeding our own racehorses for over 10 years now and the thrill of watching one you've bred race is great (we owned mare and stallion). Got 2 in racing at the moment but totally rely on members of the syndicate we formed to be able to afford to do it nowadays.
 
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