A Horse that won't learn

[TallowKnight]

First, some background:
My friend has owned his horse for almost 3 years now (first time owner), and although he can ride at a level of an intro to prelim dressage test (horse dependant), his ability is limited due to stuborness issues.
He recently offered his horse to my dad and I to ride and whilst riding him we both realised that this horse knows nothing about being ridden (no buttons!). He is about 7/8 years old now and you would expect him to know a lot more. But he barely understands squeeze - or kick as we had to resort to - for go and pull for stop - legs and seat mean little! What is happening here?!
My dad and I have been riding for 20years, including breaking in and bringing on youngsters (as well as my own) and have never had a problem like this.
This horse has always shown to be clever and smart so how has he not even made association's between commands and results? Even with a rider that knows nothing about bringing on a young horse, you would still expect something to be learned.
Also, even if we ride differently, surely it couldn't be so different that he doesn't understand basic commands?

I wonder if anyone else has ever come across this before?
What would you do?

 

[Red-1]

A novice or wooden can un-train a horse in a very short space of time.

Happily an experienced rider can reinstall the buttons in a couple of sessions too.

When I was teaching on works horses they could completely refuse to operate for one rider, yet when I mounted they would float round, so the 'buttons' can be completely situation dependent.

Timing is everything, as is setting an acceptable standard, as is the ability to give a (sometimes surprisingly strong) "forward" aid without holding back at all (so the horse is free to shoot off without restraint) when a horse is well and truly wooden. Mixed messages kills the try in a horse. As does pain.

 

[Cortez]

What is happening here is that the horse has either lost, or never had, his basic training. Training wears off surprisingly quickly if not constantly reinforced, and beginner riders are certainly not going to be able to do this unless they are being taught to progress. The horse just needs to be retrained, but it'll only stick if the regular rider ups his game too.

This is why riding school horses should always be regularly schooled between beginner sessions.

 

[JFTDWS]

I think it does a great disservice to the horse to flag the issues as "stubbornness" on the part of the horse, rather than incompetence on the part of the owner. I'm not sure why you'd expect a novice to be capable or aware of how to train a young horse, and build on its basic training (if it had any), if they're only riding at, at best, prelim level on a reasonable horse. Assuming the horse is sound and capable, it would benefit greatly in the short term from clear training to re-instate basic commands, and in the longer term, it sounds as though the original rider needs more training themselves, possibly coupled to continued schooling for the horse.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

The rider has had this horse since it was 5 (ish), so, as horses are not born knowing what human aids mean, it is pretty obvious that this horse hasn't been taught, or if it was originally taught, they haven't been reinforced by the novice owner. When you said 'stubborness issues' did you mean the rider or the horse? The horse isn't being stubborn it hasn't been educated.

If it understand voice aids, the rider should now link those to leg/seat/rein aids and if it doesn't understand voice aids, that is the place to start. The novice owner is not the best person to do this training and tbh, a rider who hasn't been able to work out what is going on is probably not best placed to do the training either.

 

[blitznbobs]

He is either in pain or does not understand - neither of which is his fault. If he taking him back to basics and long reining for a bit - starting again if you like - many horses are never taught the basics correctly. I went out to buy an 8 year old but as not one of them I sat on had the basics installed I ended up with a backed 5 year old because I couldn’t be bothered to undo the mess so many people had made of their horses - and I wasn’t shopping in the bargain basement ... start him again right from the start and you’ll end up with a nice horse unless he has a physical issue

 

[TallowKnight]

Just to clarify, I meant that the rider is stubborn.

All of your comments are reinforcing my original thoughts that the rider is just not capable of training a young horse yet. In fact, the owner was told many times before he bought a horse that he would not be able to train a youngster. Because the owner is (understandably) the primary rider it's a shame it's taken this long for the problem to be recognised. I will be discussing this further with my riding instructors in the hope that they can get through to the owner.

 

[be positive]

Just to clarify, I meant that the rider is stubborn.

All of your comments are reinforcing my original thoughts that the rider is just not capable of training a young horse yet. In fact, the owner was told many times before he bought a horse that he would not be able to train a youngster. Because the owner is (understandably) the primary rider it's a shame it's taken this long for the problem to be recognised. I will be discussing this further with my riding instructors in the hope that they can get through to the owner.

It may be that the problem, if it is a problem, has been recognised by an instructor but that the owner and the horse are perfectly happy doing what they do in their own way, it is only a problem if it is causing the horse or rider an issue in some way, there are many horses that don't have what I would consider even a basic education being ridden perfectly happily by like minded riders who have no desire to make any real progress.

 

[Goldenstar]

Common purpose horses that’s what I wall them they have learn what’s required by working it out and doing it but don’t have aids in place .
They are usually nice natured and want to please .
I have bought several like this who where good hunters it’s easy to train them if you want to .

 

[Red-1]

It may be that the problem, if it is a problem, has been recognised by an instructor but that the owner and the horse are perfectly happy doing what they do in their own way, it is only a problem if it is causing the horse or rider an issue in some way, there are many horses that don't have what I would consider even a basic education being ridden perfectly happily by like minded riders who have no desire to make any real progress.

I agree with this. I have also found that sometimes it causes a horse more grief if he is well schooled with a novice rider than if a horse is as novice as the rider. Less mixed messages. Only works if the horse is pain free and nice in nature though.

 

[Archangel]

First, some background:
his ability is limited due to stuborness issues.

Way back when I was teaching I had two pupils like this (both male). They were quite challenging to teach because they already knew it all and yet in reality could do very little and progress was slow. Perhaps the horse has just developed a coping mechanism - ignoring the rider!

 

[Merrymoles]

Agree that the horse may well be confused. Kicked on by a rider with less than soft hands may be one of the issues.

He needs a sensitive rider to take him back to basics and "explain" better so that he understands what is required and when.