A how much? Lusitano boy

pootleperkin

pootleperkin

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Hi all,

I'm just wondering what you think this boy would be worth - pic at this link
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/reader/1847730043/ref=sib_dp_pt#reader-link

the grey on the cover.

A Lusitano stallion, rising 14, just passed a 5 stage vetting (few small melanomas under his tail), very low mileage in the last few years, before that imported from Portugal where he was half owned and trained by Sylvia Loch.

He has had a little time off due to owners lack of time, but all the buttons are still working! He has a delightful attitude, a very easy boy to handle, ride and look after.

What do you think? I'm just curious, as not sure how his age would affect his otherwise obvious benefits.
 
Has he any comp results?

To be honest, to me, I probably wouldn't value very highly compared to others. This is purely because at 14 my boy only had a few melanomas under his tail and at 17yrs I had to have him PTS because of them.... So actually I would probably never buy him regardless of price (although he looks totally lovely!!!). I just couldn't, and horses are only worth as much as someone is prepared to pay as they say.

Sorry, poss not very helpful.
 
I have no idea about price,but hell he is a stunner :) shame about the melanomas though as that would put me off buying him :(
 
That's interesting - vet said he wouldn't be as worried about melanomas in that position as he would sarcoids.....what happened to you horse if it's not too much to talk about?
 
Hmmm, so it seems I should be getting twitchy about the melanomas.... any other thoughts? Always avoid them, or anyone who has had horses who they didn't bother?

Always questioned whether I would buy one with sarcoids, as my boy has them and of course, would always buy him again....but of then again, he didn't have them as a 6 month old foal.
 
At first they were just under his tail, first noticed when he was around 10. Had vet look and they said not to worry about them.

He spread more and could get a bit sore the year he was 16. Had vet look again. They gave me some antibiotics and told me not to worry. The April he was 17 he got chronic diarrohea. He had every test going other than cutting him open to have a look. Melanomas didn't look too different really.... Only thing that controlled the D was steroids and when it was really bad, codiene. Then in July he seemed to be getting better after a bit of a relapse, and then within 2 days he suddenly seemed constipated. Vet came out and had to physically remove poo. She said she could tell the melanomas had suddenly multiplied badly. Within 2 hours he was the same again, she came out and I had to have him PTS. I had no option. I had a post mortem done and he had melanomas throughout his intestines (which had caused the D) and they had basically blocked up his rectum and anus at the end which was the final straw.

The problem with them is, although there may only be a few on the outside, you have no idea what could be going on inside. They are also very very agressive and unpredictable. You have no idea what they do. I think vets are wrong for dismissing them (mine did too) so quickly. I'm sure it is very uncommon, but after what happened to my boy, I couldn't go through it again.
 
I would never buy a horse already with melanomas... Not after what happened to mine. I've also decided never to buy another grey.... Just couldn't do it.
 
Sorry to hear about it all galaxy - I can understand you not wanting to go through all that again....

I'm thinking of buying him in a partnership, and am mostly intrested in what he can teach me, but then again, don't want to get stuck with huge vet's bills and a stupidly upset friend (co-owner) if nasty things occur.
 
I have a similar story to Galaxy with a grey and melanomas unfortunately. One summer he even got fly strike under his tail which was absolutely horrid for him. He was also put down at just 16. So I too would avoid a horse that has them and greys for that matter!
 
Hi
On the basis of what has been said, (melanomas), excluded, I would pay between 5-6000 for him, he looks like a dressage star to me,...very trainable and has the pose factor.
Thats just what I would pay for him. I dont know whether using him for stud may be an option for making some income from him?
 
Cheers Tamba - he is used for stud so there is an income option there, he also has some straws for AI saved down at Twemlows Hall and is on their website.

The melanomas are just putting a little fear into me....have friends who have horses where nothing has come of them, but then some not so good tales from people on here.
 
Sorry to harp on about the melanomas, but a slightly different experience. I bought Harry at 8 with a couple of really small melanomas under his tail and although he had to be PTS because of them at 17 (they had spread to many different places including under his jaw and appeared to be causing laminitis), I would still buy him all over again. We had 6 great years of riding together and then 3 years of retirement during which he was very happy, so my view is that this is quite a lot of good quality time to get with a horse. After all any horse can come out of the lorry and break a leg on his way to his new home!

If you enjoy riding him and accept that horses are delicate creatures, I think you should go for him.

As for price, I am not too sure on the details. I take it he is a stallion, is he easy to handle and ride in an everyday environment, e.g. around mares, going to shows? Do you have facilities for a stalion? Some people do not and some livery yards do not accept them so I think that would limit his price. What is his competition experiece? What level is he trained to? How suitable is he as a schoolmaster? Does he hack?
 
Sorry just to add (must read posts more carefully!!), if he was recently imported he will have loads of points with BD, so you would need to either downgrade him (if that is an option for you) or get him assessed (if that is an option with the level of his training), otherwise you might need to compete him at a very high level. This would also be a problem for a lot of people and would affect his price.
 
Hi Booboos,

thanks for your reply - he is a stallion and he is pretty much an angel to handle in every respect - he likes people a lot. We do have facilities for him here at home, but even with these in place, we will probably have him on trial anyway to make sure all will be well. Yes, he does hack out with no probs either on his own of with others, including mares. He is classical dressage trained, his owner reckons to equivalent BD medium. He was imported about 5 years ago now - I had forgotten the implications of importation on points, and it is an interesting point - I wouldn't be worried about competition in the immediate future (need to learn to ride him to a reasonable standard first!).

I am much the same as you when it comes to looking at the balance of pleasure we are likely to have from him (in my case, an invaluable schoolmaster to learn more dressage skills on, while for my friend, a life-long ambition to own and enjoy riding an Iberian-type horse fulfilled) against the risk that something might happen melanoma wise. I am inclined to think that he is worth the risk in terms of what he can offer us.
 
Melanomas aside, I think he sounds lovely! As a medium schoolmaster, who hacks and is nice to handle with the potential to have an income from stud fees, I would say around 8k would be a reasonable price. I think it would be fair to ask for a reduction because of the melanomas and be closer to 6k. Is this anywhere near what the owner is looking for?

In terms of BD even if he was imported 5 years ago (at 9 years of age) he would be lumped with 435 points, so he could only compete Advanced and over. However, you could still downgrade him or get him assessed.
 
Personally I'd never breed from a stallion (or mare for that matter) with melanomas! And I'd question anybody that would; to why take the risk ?

I dont know about value. To me, melanomas would 1/2 his current value, as a gelding

I've had a pony with melanomas, once again small ones on the dock when purchased, he was PTS within 4 yrs, due to internal tumours restricting his lungs. They had filled his chest cavaty, so he couldnt expand his lungs fully. Watching a fun loving fit pony slow down, struggle to breath and have regular dizzy spells, is heartbreaking. I'd never buy a grey for that reason
 
If he's only schooling at medium and he's a stallion, with melanomas then I cant see his value being much over 4k.
If he's got piaffe/passage, canter pirras and decent changes and is a good schoolmaster then he's potentially worth up to 8k for the right person.
 
Scallywags, purely out of interest are melanomas hereditary in horses? I can't find any info to suggest they are (although I have not looked really hard!!).

Came across this, which, interestingly enough, seems to suggest that melanomas in grey horses are less malignant than in solid colour horses as greys appear to have a genetic advantage which inhibits metastasis. http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=4577

Pootleperkin: forgot to say that your potential horse's age works for him regarding the melanomas because he is older and they have not metastasized which *may* indicate that they won't do so in the future (melanomas will either spread and be aggressive right from the start, or never change much, or never change much for ages until they suddenly become aggressive). There is some evidence to suggest that most melanomas are benign, so if they have not spread on this particular horse by this age then they are probably benign.
 
Booboos said:
Scallywags, purely out of interest are melanomas hereditary in horses? I can't find any info to suggest they are (although I have not looked really hard!!).

Came across this, which, interestingly enough, seems to suggest that melanomas in grey horses are less malignant than in solid colour horses as greys appear to have a genetic advantage which inhibits metastasis. http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=4577
Click to expand...

I've looked into it to over the yrs, and cant find evidence to prove or disprove the genetic link, so I wouldnt take the risk.
Regarding the malignancy, does it really matter? its still a cancer or sorts. And cancers are unpredictable.
I've looked into the genetic links of diseases, over the last 5 yrs for personal reasons, mostly in human and canine conditions, and all vets I've talked to, stay on the side of caution, and advice not to breed. Dr's wouldnt openly say the same, but when I've discussed concerns over genetics, and children they havnt disagreed with the risks as are greatly unknown.
 
scallywags said:
I've looked into it to over the yrs, and cant find evidence to prove or disprove the genetic link, so I wouldnt take the risk.
Regarding the malignancy, does it really matter? its still a cancer or sorts. And cancers are unpredictable.
I've looked into the genetic links of diseases, over the last 5 yrs for personal reasons, mostly in human and canine conditions, and all vets I've talked to, stay on the side of caution, and advice not to breed. Dr's wouldnt openly say the same, but when I've discussed concerns over genetics, and children they havnt disagreed with the risks as are greatly unknown.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. To be honest I would tend to think that if there is no evidence of a genetic link then probably there is no link and therefore no worry in terms of breeding.

Well I suppose you may have a different definition of cancer in mind, but I was thinking of cancer as a malignant tumour that is invasive and spreads, whereas a benign tumour is non-invasive, does not spread and is a cosmetic issue.
 
I read on the internet that 80% of grey horses over tha age of 14 have melanomas... So they are certainly common (which is why I would never buy another grey in general)

However my boys melanomas certainly did spread very violently after being "dormant" for years. So much so that they went from being not a problem (externally) to within days being the reason I had them PTS. They are not just cosmetic... They can make a horse extremely ill.
 
Yes it is said grey animals not just horses are prone to cancer later on in life but I wouldn't not buy a grey because of this, it can happen to anyone, at any time.

He is a lovely looking horse, He is worth what your willing to pay for him.

I just googled melanomas, never heard or seen it, but these photos - I don't know how the horse coped living like this.
http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgu...mage_result&resnum=4&ct=image&ved=0CBUQ9QEwAw
 
RSL said:
I just googled melanomas, never heard or seen it, but these photos - I don't know how the horse coped living like this.
http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgu...mage_result&resnum=4&ct=image&ved=0CBUQ9QEwAw
Click to expand...

Very interesting photos. It does say in the text that they did not obstruct the horse's anus, so I doubt the horse noticed. Harry had worse melanomas than the ones shown further down on the horse's neck and they made absolutely no difference to him. They were not tender to touch, he did not mind tack on them, and he had no problems eating, drinking and breathing.

Sorry for hijaking OP!
 
I know this horsey!!!!!!

I know he is a good boy, and def throws good foals too.

He is very handleable and well schooled too :)
wish i could afford him :( grrrrrrrrrrrrrr


Personally i would worry about melanomas in solid colours not greys.
 
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