A 'How Much?' - Never Thought I'd Do This!

[Maesfen]

It's great to know I'm not so crazy after all!

Take your point about SP stallions completely, but me being a wimp wouldn't like her to go to a big boy first time even by AI!

Call me soft I know! Of course, Ringo would have been in the list!
Right then, convince me which one bearing in mind I want it to be something that has done everything itself, but it must be at a reasonable distance from here and with reasonable stud and keep fees - easy question I know!LOL! But most of all must have a fabulous temperment!

I'm off to a meeting now till about 9o'clock, but I'll be back to see what you have all come up with!!

I love these forums, they're such good sounding boards, thanks everyone!

 

[xspiralx]

Those horses may be advertised for that price, but there's no guarantee they'll get it!

 

[S_N]

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Those horses may be advertised for that price, but there's no guarantee they'll get it!

[/ QUOTE ]

I know that - but it gives Pat an idea of what people are asking for similar horses to Dotty! The coloured (IMHO) is not of the same stamp as Dots is and the bay is just stunning!

 

[S_N]

Of the top of my head, what about that little(ish) coloured chap that you wanted to go and see for Twiggy, but then decided against him for her - the one in Glos. we were going to arrange to see him on the way up to yours...... Was it Greenacre something.... or am I loosing it now!

I will put my thinking cap on - am now off the get ponies in, as the temp has dropped and the rain is lashing down here

 

[Maesfen]

Nasty rain!

It's quite windy here and is threatening rain but not yet!

Goss Green Mirage you mean - yes, he's on the list and he can certainly do it!!

I was very impressed when he competed here at Malpas.

 

[BBs]

[ QUOTE ]
Pat, I think that is a fabulous idea - very sensible! 2 things - she can be ridden whilst pregnant (not for too long obviously), but it will be good for her and 2) once she's foaled she can be shown in-hand with the baby. I have a question though - why a Sports Pony stallion - I can understand with Twigs, as she's only 15.2hh, but Dot's will mature to be bigger..................

Also, this is on Horsequest for £4,250

and this one for 5K

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with BandJ - break her at 3 and see how she goes under saddle before deciding whether to put her in foal.

Interesting to note SN - that the little coloured you show was cheaper than that - price seems to have been put up

Cos obviously I know every blinking coloured for sale on that site lol

 

[Bri]

Haven't read all the replies - But we've just bought a coloured girly from Ireland. 3 and unbroken. Paid 3.5k for her if that helps at all?!
She's stunning too - always liked the look of her. If only I'd known she was for sale!!

 

[beaconhorse]

I think that sounds a very good plan. AS long as you can find someone who you can REALLY trust to do her justice in her training and competitive life otherwise it could be a complete disaster.

 

[Iestyn]

I'll have her Pat!!! Will also have that young man of yours as well!!!

Rich would love a coloured horse he could event- his favourite!

 

[S_N]

[ QUOTE ]
Interesting to note SN - that the little coloured you show was cheaper than that - price seems to have been put up

Cos obviously I know every blinking coloured for sale on that site lol

[/ QUOTE ]

Blimey - you have been trawling the sites looking eh

I had to go and double check then - but no, there has obviously been a price hike.......

 

[BBs]

Unfortunately yes, how sad is that - but when your mother and father are willing to buy you a horse then you do go and look - however, there arent that many decent coloureds on the market.

The conditions are it has to be a gelding, had to have mainly brown/black on it, no pink noses or bottoms - its driving me mad

 

[kick_On]

elo Maesfenhorse
i don't much about breeding, but here are some questions for you:-
1. what are the benefits of placing your girly in foal at this age??? and then backin later on -
2. backing a horse later on, does that raise more problems???? than say backing now....
3. If you backed soon, would that give you clearer idea which route to go down, whether she is really really going to go places.......
4. Is breeding you livelyhood or your hobby/passion??? (I mean this very nicely as my horses are my hobby but also my passion, but i don't make my living from them)
5. Also can we know what the future holds for us????
6. Most importantly - Does your head and heart match???? thats the way i decide things

ooo more things.......... to go into you head

But please let us know your plans for your girly

 

[Maesfen]

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I agree with BandJ - break her at 3 and see how she goes under saddle before deciding whether to put her in foal.



[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry this is a late reply!

I see where you're both coming from but as you know I am very old-school and just do not believe in working horses when they're only 3; I would still not break her til she's 4 even if I don't put her in foal next year.
That's part of my problem with BYEH 4 year old classes, I think they are worked far too hard, far too soon just so they stand a chance to qualify and I don't want to go down that route with one of mine; it is all too easy to get carried away and push harder than they are ready for so this is the reason I am thinking of putting her in foal next year because to a certain extent, it will make me back off until she is fully mature.
It's my personal opinion of course, I certainly don't expect people to agree with me, but my ultimate aim is to have a sound and able horse at the end of her working career,(barring accidents of course which can happen anytime) not possibly something that has had to retire cos her body is worn out.

It's a very hard old habit to break, giving them time to develop naturally!

 

[Maesfen]

[ QUOTE ]

The conditions are it has to be a gelding, had to have mainly brown/black on it, no pink noses or bottoms - its driving me mad

[/ QUOTE ]

Well that puts Dotty out of the running then doesn't it? - unless of course I added a couple of bits then take them away!

 

[BBs]

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[ QUOTE ]

I agree with BandJ - break her at 3 and see how she goes under saddle before deciding whether to put her in foal.



[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry this is a late reply!

I see where you're both coming from but as you know I am very old-school and just do not believe in working horses when they're only 3; I would still not break her til she's 4 even if I don't put her in foal next year.
That's part of my problem with BYEH 4 year old classes, I think they are worked far too hard, far too soon just so they stand a chance to qualify and I don't want to go down that route with one of mine; it is all too easy to get carried away and push harder than they are ready for so this is the reason I am thinking of putting her in foal next year because to a certain extent, it will make me back off until she is fully mature.
It's my personal opinion of course, I certainly don't expect people to agree with me, but my ultimate aim is to have a sound and able horse at the end of her working career,(barring accidents of course which can happen anytime) not possibly something that has had to retire cos her body is worn out.

It's a very hard old habit to break, giving them time to develop naturally!

[/ QUOTE ]

I do also think that horses are being asked to do too much too soon - the reason behind these young horse classes are good, however, like you say too many push their horses too soon - and subsequently break them before they are given a chance.

Thankfully BE only allow 4 year olds to do 4 BE Intro classes and also only on a ticket!
With the BYEH classes its only a basic (very basic) dressage and a show jumpnig round followed by a confirmation class - I think these classes are great (as long as the ground is good) for £25 a young horse is getting the benefit of being in competition environment etc - however, unfortunately as with all *showing classes* its who you are not what your riding

I was very lucky to sit in on one of these classes with Rowland Fenryhoough as the judge - that was extremely interesting and informative.

So, I agree with you what you are saying (Dont do too much too soon) - however, I am one for breaking them at 3 and doing some education and then letting them mature a bit more in the field again

 

[BBs]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

The conditions are it has to be a gelding, had to have mainly brown/black on it, no pink noses or bottoms - its driving me mad

[/ QUOTE ]

Well that puts Dotty out of the running then doesn't it? - unless of course I added a couple of bits then take them away!

[/ QUOTE ]

Unfortunately it does...mum thought she was delightful tho

 

[Maesfen]

Morning!
That's a great list of questions but I'll do my best!

but you asked for it!

First of all, I breed because I love it, all aspects of it even if it goes wrong! It's exciting finding stallions to match your mares in the first place, then you have the lull before foaling, then the best time happens; you get to see (all things being well of course) the fruits of your labour when the mare foals and grows and almost better when they go to new homes and begin to do well for their new owners. That is a real buzz for me.

I only started breeding in the mid '80s when I bought a mare due to foal in a month and she was in a horrendous condition, If I can find them, I'll put up pic's later. A) I felt sorry for her and B) it was the only way I was able to keep a horse at that time, if by selling the foal meant I could afford the yearly keep as I was going slowly bananas without horses in my life at that time! (OH then was still very much in farmer mode, everything had to pay for itself; if I had only got something to ride there wouldn't have been any profit in it! Luckily now, he's changed his tune cos he's seen in the main that I have been reasonably successful even though doing it in a very small way on a miniscule budget. Until a year ago, it had all been self funding although not my liveliehood, but it was helped by taking liveries once we moved here but now I'm not doing liveries unless it's for friends at certain times - at his insistence, he was fed up of poached fields and broken fences! - so he's been resigned to me dipping into the housekeeping - on a bad week I'll shop at Lidl!

So to a certain extent, that answers another question that I do breed to sell, otherwise I couldn't afford to just collect them. Saying which, I'm still in touch with most of the owners and am always getting pic's and news of how they're doing which is lovely; wouldn't have it any other way and I won't sell to someone that I don't like or think won't be good for the horse; think I've only made one mistake in that respect and that was to a professional showman but that's another story!
The major benefit to putting Dotty in foal next year is that it will make me NOT do anything with her, she will be given more time to mature at her own pace without me trying to push her for more before she is ready. A lot of vets, particularly stud ones, think it isn't a bad thing to put a filly in foal at that age, especially if they are big and growing fast; it slows the system down a bit which can only be good in the long run. Not only does it do that, but it also means that when foal is weaned, the mare can go straight on into her ridden career and should be strong enough to not need a long term break as you would do if you broke at 3. It also means you already have a youngster of hers on the ground and if she does well that is another plus, either by its value or the advertising it carries with it when that too goes out to do a job.
I don't think it makes a lot of difference to the end product if they're not broken until later, possibly they might take longer to become fully supple but providing they are done properly from the start of breaking, that shouldn't be a problem as it'a already been proved that you have the patience to wait! I think it's only in exceptional circumstances that you know what a horse will be good at before it has finished it's basic grounding in ridden work although conformation and parentage might provide a clue earlier.
Haven't a clue what the future brings; if I did I might not get out of bed! Only this week someone (apologies, I can't remember who) knew someone who had died in their sleep and were only 21 - and not ill; I think that says it all on that subject.
Lastly (thank God I can hear you saying!) I always try to let my heart rule but I'm always a practical person anyway so have to balance it all up. For instance, I would love to keep Dotty as explained before, but if someone who I thought a lot of and respected for their ability came up and offered a silly amount for her, I would probably have to let her go, not just for the money although that obviously comes into it cos everything has its price, but they would also be able to give her all the chances she should have which I might not be able to provide, but in turn, the money from her might enable me to give something else the chance it needs at a later date or be able to go to even better stallions, that sort of thing. Don't know if that makes sense at all, it's very hard to explain.

I feel like I've been through the wringer writing all that down, hope you haven't gone to sleep!

 

[kick_On]

no i haven't fallen a sleep

wow didn't expect to get such a full answer.. I was just trying to help you get you thoughts in order, as writing them down help me out greatly.
You do make sense about waiting and i can now see where your going with putting dotty infoal.
I have to say it's the next main project for me to bred a foal, but i need to find a mare that i really like, as when you get a good mare they knock spots of geldings. But it's something for future, but you have a great sound knowledge of a subject i know little about.
so thanks for your reply
g

 

[dieseldog]

in holland they put all their mares in foal as 2 YOs, they have it at 3, and then the mare is sold on/broken in.

 

[BBs]

Thanks Pat for that - it has made interesting reading and answered a few of my questions also.

My trainer (jona) has put his two mares in foal (at 3) they are both now 5 and 6 respectively - so yes they started sligthly later in life (although doesnt seem to have bothered either of them).

Both are by jumbo, and although both are them (for sale and relatively pricey (£7k) the only downside you get is from ppl saying, well you want x amount for these horses, however, they are this age and neither have done much in their life. Ppl forget if you keep a horse for 5-6 or even 7 years of its life, unless the horse is being sold for £15k+ you dont make any money from the sale!

They are going well tho and picking up things very quickly. Like you say they dont have to have sucha long time off like they would have done had they been backed at 3. I was due to have one of them at my yard over the summer - but J wanted me to buy a half share in her -

Thanks again for sharing with us an insite into your life

 

[Maesfen]

Glad you're still awake and thank you for your kind reply.

It did the job you set it out to do, to make my mind up so that's a good thing, thanks.

And the answer is.................yes, as long as I still have her next spring, she will be going in foal, to what yet, I haven't a clue. My plan will be to get her started upto being ridden quietly, so maybe a month or six weeks work, then be covered, then when she comes home I will continue long reining her about the lanes a few times a week up until Christmas in the run up to foaling (I'm getting all tingly just thinking about it, how sad is that?!

). All being well and if I can get willing helpers, I will show the pair a few times during the summer then when she is weaned it will be off to work we go!!

For those of you who will say why not ride her when she's been covered, it's because I am one of the lousiest riders on this earth! I can cope with them turning themselves inside out and having dicky fits at times but the schooling aspect is completely beyond me and I would hate to ruin her before she's properly started, also we have nowhere for a suitable school, it has to be the lanes - and I can do a good job on long reining, love doing it anyway so that part will be easy I hope!

Watch this space!..................

 

[severnmiles]

[ QUOTE ]
Pat, I think that is a fabulous idea - very sensible! 2 things - she can be ridden whilst pregnant (not for too long obviously), but it will be good for her and 2) once she's foaled she can be shown in-hand with the baby. I have a question though - why a Sports Pony stallion - I can understand with Twigs, as she's only 15.2hh, but Dot's will mature to be bigger..................

Also, this is on Horsequest for £4,250

and this one for 5K

[/ QUOTE ]

Those are hideous!!

 

[Maesfen]

Morning Sara! Just got up have we?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Have to agree about the top one, second isn't so bad but I wouldn't buy it on that pic alone!

 

[kick_On]

will do with interest

 

[Maesfen]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks Pat for that - it has made interesting reading and answered a few of my questions also.

My trainer (jona) has put his two mares in foal (at 3) they are both now 5 and 6 respectively - so yes they started sligthly later in life (although doesnt seem to have bothered either of them).

Both are by jumbo, and although both are them (for sale and relatively pricey (£7k) the only downside you get is from ppl saying, well you want x amount for these horses, however, they are this age and neither have done much in their life. Ppl forget if you keep a horse for 5-6 or even 7 years of its life, unless the horse is being sold for £15k+ you dont make any money from the sale!

They are going well tho and picking up things very quickly. Like you say they dont have to have sucha long time off like they would have done had they been backed at 3. I was due to have one of them at my yard over the summer - but J wanted me to buy a half share in her -

Thanks again for sharing with us an insite into your life

[/ QUOTE ]

No prob's, to be honest, it's done me good writing it down too!

The thing people also have to realise is that no, they are comparitively inexperienced but if the youngsters begin to do well that also increases the value of the mares at no extra cost to themselves! Folks are always willing to pay a premium for success, to some, they'd prefer to buy it than work for it themselves but it doesn't always work out like that with horses, as many of us know!

 

[S_N]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Pat, I think that is a fabulous idea - very sensible! 2 things - she can be ridden whilst pregnant (not for too long obviously), but it will be good for her and 2) once she's foaled she can be shown in-hand with the baby. I have a question though - why a Sports Pony stallion - I can understand with Twigs, as she's only 15.2hh, but Dot's will mature to be bigger..................

Also, this is on Horsequest for £4,250

and this one for 5K

[/ QUOTE ]

Those are hideous!!

[/ QUOTE ]

PMSL!! That was my point!! Though the bottom knocks spots of the top one!

 

[severnmiles]

[ QUOTE ]
Morning Sara! Just got up have we?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Have to agree about the top one, second isn't so bad but I wouldn't buy it on that pic alone!

[/ QUOTE ]

Lol! No cheeky, now I have this wonder boot I can do things..I don't think the hospital will want it back...its been cubbing twice!

The top one is horrid (sorry whoever owns it), just not worth that money in a million years. The second one isn't so bad but I wouldn't pay over 2.5k for it.

Regarding your Dotty I think 3.5k is fair, she's lovely! But I think it would be more worth your while (if you can) to hang on to her until she's 3 or 4y.o and broken and riding, she'll fetch lots more then.

 

[Maesfen]

Sorry, forgot about the foot!!

See some posts above this! Have decided if she's not sold by spring - and I'm not going to try very hard at all, she goes in foal! Just need ideas now what to put her to; luckily, it does not have to be a coloured, that isn't a priority.

Can't say I'd want your boot now either!!