A Jerry Jump Jet Jumping Update With Vid

[Gamebird]

Seeing as there aren't many eventing reports going on I thought I'd let you see some video of Jerry Jump Jet and I trying to rediscover our mojo. CC welcome, with the emphasis on 'constructive' as we're feeling a little delicate at the moment . I'm never sure about posting when things aren't perfect but hopefully it will be educational for both me and anyone brave/bored enough to watch!

Poor old Jerry. Despite a fairly successful winter BSJAing at 1.10-1.20 somehow the wheels have come off somewhere along the line and he came out at the start of the BE season rather worried and tense leading to me having to retire him XC more than once. I stopped trusting him and he stopped trusting me . He's a worrier and a thinker and something's bothered him somewhere along the line so we've gone back to basics and tried to sort the problem out - it stems from the approach to the fence (he's started shortening and curling behind the contact) and (doesn't it always...) the canter .

With this in mind we've been doing some jumping with my dressage instructor - trying to keep him in a longer, deeper outline on the approach to a fence, trying to stop me flapping if the stride's not obviously there, and trying to make adjustments on the turns so that the last few strides are smooth and un-fiddled with. I think it's improved his jump - it's no longer quite so extravagant - but there's still a long way o go so I'm dropping him back to 1m-1.10 in the ring for a bit until we're both singing from exactly the same hymn sheet.

Forgive the odd circle - if his head comes up and his stride starts to shorten I'm to put him on a circle and sort it out before approaching the fence. I feel a lot more confident in him now than I have for the last few weeks and I think the feeling's mutual . It's not perfect, but it's a lot better than it has been.

Please note a) the sunshine!!!!! and b) the puddles

[youtube]C1Keve8mnY0[/youtube]

 

[Mince Pie]

I haven't seen the entire video yet as it's take aaaaaages to load! However he does seem a bit more relaxed from about 2.20 in? I could be totally off mark but his 'default' seems to be "rush in, over jump, rush out", perhaps that you are balancing him a bit more and steadying him up it's denting his "mojo" and he needs to get the hang of the new way of doing things - especially as you say he's a worrier?

ETA: Is it just me or is that video the same clip 3 times and then another clip? between 2.20 and 4 mins seems good then back to the beginning?

 

[Gamebird]

Whoops. Must be too late at night for me. It should be two vids of approx 1:10 stuck together so no idea how it ended up so long. No wonder it took so long to upload to youtube! I'll redo it tomorrow for those without the patience to sit through the replays...

 

[Mike007]

I watched your video closely and in general ,with enjoyment, but there were moments when somthing said to me , his back hurts. Hard to explain, more of an instinct than an observation.he looks the sort of game little horse that wouldnt tell you somthing was wrong till his leg fell off.Good luck to jerry and you and I hope my honest opinion doesnt offend.

 

[Rosiefan]

I'm totally not qualified to criticise but common sense tells me that going back to basics is the way to go. Hope it works - Jerry is so talented and I'm willing it to work for both of you.

 

[tigers_eye]

He bosses you around on every turn, putting his nose to the outside and loading his inside shoulder, when you try to correct it he does that short stroppy stride which immediately makes you back off and leave him alone, and half the time having to push him in the last strides to make the distance. It's a fine balance with horses like him how much you can dominate them (I don't mean being horrible, I mean them doing as they're told), but I'd put yourself up a 90cm -1m upright at X and stay on a 20m circle jumping it, INSISTING the shoulder behaves itself into the fence, even if it means a rubbish jump at the actual fence. I was made to do it in my last jumping lesson, 'twas illuminating!

 

[Gamebird]

I watched your video closely and in general ,with enjoyment, but there were moments when somthing said to me , his back hurts. Hard to explain, more of an instinct than an observation.he looks the sort of game little horse that wouldnt tell you somthing was wrong till his leg fell off.Good luck to jerry and you and I hope my honest opinion doesnt offend.

No offence taken Mike, we all know what might happen regarding opinions when we put ourselves out there in public! In a way you're right. He has had a sore back - worst about 3 months ago - but has had several intensive physio sessions since then. His last was just over a week ago where the physio reckoned that he was as good as he was going to be. It may have contributed to our problems though. His rather odd way of going and tail swishing is something he's always done and hasn't changed for better of for worse really. What I'm possibly not so good at is doing enough stretching through his back before we work properly. The second time round the course he looked more relaxed and that may have been due to being better warmed up.

 

[Gamebird]

I'm totally not qualified to criticise but common sense tells me that going back to basics is the way to go. Hope it works - Jerry is so talented and I'm willing it to work for both of you.

Oh, but you are qualified! I'm sure you've spent so much time watching Rosie et al working horses that you can be pretyy perceptive . Thanks though, I do at least feel he's going the right way but the the results I want are some way off.

 

[Gamebird]

Here's the proper shortened version without all the repeated segments:

[youtube]EoxtIkU6A2k[/youtube]

He bosses you around on every turn, putting his nose to the outside and loading his inside shoulder, when you try to correct it he does that short stroppy stride which immediately makes you back off and leave him alone, and half the time having to push him in the last strides to make the distance. It's a fine balance with horses like him how much you can dominate them (I don't mean being horrible, I mean them doing as they're told), but I'd put yourself up a 90cm -1m upright at X and stay on a 20m circle jumping it, INSISTING the shoulder behaves itself into the fence, even if it means a rubbish jump at the actual fence. I was made to do it in my last jumping lesson, 'twas illuminating!

I think I'm as bad as him for turning his head to the outside as as soon as he sees and is aimed at the fence he shoots off so I think I'm trying to delay that moment - the wrong approach, and I did get rather a teling off for it last night.

I think you're right about the domination too. I ride thick horses best - the sort that you can dominate into doing things and I think that I know that approach doesn't work with this one so I've gone too far that other way. Will aim to bring some discipline back without going so far as domination!

I'll also try your exercise ta. If it's good enough for a 4* eventer....

 

[Scarlett]

Out of interest what's he like on the flat? Does he still give you that choppy canter or is he easier to stretch out and get him working up over his back?

He just looks 'akward', whether thats mental, physical or other I'm definately not qualified to guess, but something just doesn't sit right. He looks disconnected from front to back which causes him to fling himself in the air when he finally gets there. He needs to lift off that inside shoulder, be softer in the base of his neck and more regular in the rhythm. TBH it looks like it's all flatwork related, maybe he needs a different approach to his flatwork, or maybe a concentrated period of schooling, to give him that confidence to relax and let go in his body?

Obv I can barely ride one side of my horse but I had a not dissimilar issue with my mare - for her it looks like there is a physical reason why and we have vets involved.

 

[milz88]

I could be way off the mark here. But I have noticed in several videos I have seen of him, that he swishes his tail ALOT, more than I have ever seen a horse do before, e.g. just at the start when excited. To me, it would make me worry about his back, I am sure you have already had it checked, but I'd be getting an ACPAT physio to check it, then if no joy perhaps straight down the route of an x-ray just to rule anything out as it seems he is a persistent tail swisher and tends to jump a little wonky.

Other than that you ride him nicely and handle him well, but something may not be right as you said having to retire him XC etc.

 

[Scarlett]

It wouldnt let me edit above....

Was it Jerry you posted about a lack of lateral suppleness with? Or am I imagining it? If so that makes sense, he looks like he needs to work through the outside of his body on the turn better, lift the shoulder, stretch through into the outside hand, not compress the inside of his neck etc. Maybe theres a connection? Or maybe not and I've just not had enough coffee yet

 

[angelish]

Yey I'm a jerry fan and looking forward to watching vids later as ment to be working ATM

Sorry the wheels have wobbled a bit for you both but sounds like your getting back on track

 

[alwaysbroke]

Nothing constructive to add, but hope normally Jerry service returns soon, I am a huge fan of his

Also T-E, really like the sound of that exercise, if you don't mind I will pass it onto D_K think it could be very useful for one of his.

 

[H-J]

I know there isnt really alot you can do about it but it doesnt seem to help him jumping in such a small arena, he just bounces of the sides to each fence and doesnt have time in between to calm and recover a nice relaxed canter.

Can you pop a couple of small jumps in between schooling him so he starts to become a bit more blaze about the jumping and not so rushed and panicked?

He does defintely look calmer in this session then previous sessions, he has a huge jump and a huge amount of talent but unfortunately lacking in confidence so hopefully taking things a bit slower and taking him back a level a bit will help his confidence.

He is a lovely horse

 

[Horsemad12]

Well there is no doubt he has scope! For me they are rather large fences for going back to basics.

I think I would drop the height down to around the 1m-1.05m mark, add some oxers in and then just keep doing what you are doing. Work on the canter but with the fences being very much in a comfort zone so you are both relaxed, not worried about the stride and can keep coming to the fence.

A really good exercise that I did recently (I hope I can explain this properly) was a number of fences at each end of the school (kind of just off the diagonal) with enough room in the middle for a 20m circle at B/E. You can then come across the diagonal jump one "into the circle" then go on to a 20m circle, get a soft canter back and only when you are ready jump back out - does that make sense? Really helped my mare (and me) with getting and keeping a soft canter.

He has always had his own "style" and seems careful so try to relax and just go with him?

 

[Wilbur_Force]

Really good vid - hats off for showing it warts and all. Lovely horse, but I reckon he's giving you the two finger salute for that last bit of submission. In the first few seconds of the vid when you turn for the barrels past the camera he is very bum/croup high - presume that's his choppy canter you mentioned because of the tightness through the back? Wouldn't say he was necessarily sore, just tight IMHO.

He reminds me of a large version of a whizzy little JA pony that you see at shows with their heads turned to the outside and then 'wham' turn to the fence and go! Looks to me like he has limited bend and lateral suppleness in his body. You turn for the barrels and he comes against the hand, his bum scoots left and there's lots of wiggling

Those jumps look huge (but I'm a wimp). I'd focus on straightness to everything, especially controlling the shoulders. In your flatwork I'd work on the inside track, spiralling circles to control the use of the shoulder, leg yield in walk or slow trot to make him listen to the aids, so over a little, straight, over a little, straight, etc. Real basic but useful stuff. I'd also come down to say, 90cm and use as few fences as possible and get the V poles out to stop the drifting. He has loads of scope so obviously finds it easy but if you need to regroup a little, I'd be back to basics. Still love the jump jet! Good luck

 

[charlimouse]

He bosses you around on every turn, putting his nose to the outside and loading his inside shoulder, when you try to correct it he does that short stroppy stride which immediately makes you back off and leave him alone, and half the time having to push him in the last strides to make the distance. It's a fine balance with horses like him how much you can dominate them (I don't mean being horrible, I mean them doing as they're told), but I'd put yourself up a 90cm -1m upright at X and stay on a 20m circle jumping it, INSISTING the shoulder behaves itself into the fence, even if it means a rubbish jump at the actual fence. I was made to do it in my last jumping lesson, 'twas illuminating!

I did this exercise on both Harry and Jem in lessons last night, was very interesting, especially on Harry! For Harry the jump was only 1ft-ish, and with jem was about 3ft-ish, but it definately made both them and me think about the quality of the canter, aswell as keeping the shoulders and quaters where they are meant to be!

 

[KatB]

Here goes... I am being brutally honest, but please feel free to ignore me However, I have had to completely reconstruct my jumping, and these are some factors/things that have helped me majorly.

I think jumping big fences at home on a not so good surface is probably not going to help his confidence much

I think the tightness is purely through anxiety, and jumping lots of fences in quick succession just buzzes him up IMHO... He is very similar to madam in the fact you can dare her and keep jumping, then she will suddenly down tools if she gets brain overload.

Having seen you "live" so to speak around courses, you seem to dare him at every fence, which is fine whilst his bottle holds out, but then it will break, and I think that's where you may have problems?

I would want to see a lot more rhythm, and relaxation between fences. It's very easy to get into just riding to each fence, and forgetting the inbetween bits! And is something I was VERY guilty of.

I would want to see in a small space you sat slightly more in the saddle inbetween fences, and asking for him to be adjustable continually, so little flexions, softening through the neck and wither, slight shoulder fore and asking the canter back and forth before even thinking about turning for a fence. Then when you DO turn to the fence, you should have a much softer, relaxed approach, which you can contain and not have to change, meaning he should be able to focus on the fence and relax a bit

I have found riding inbetween the fences, making sure I get good turns everytime (in straightness, infront of the leg and suppleness through the neck and wither) produces a much better, softer jump.

Hope that makes sense

 

[TableDancer]

Haven't read all the replies, but here goes with a few ideas...

Firstly and fundamentally, I can't understand why you are jumping such huge fences? Especially if the two of you have had a wobble. It's almost as though you are daring yourself? Which is probably counterproductive and doesn't give you a chance to work on the basics which is what you have rightly identified is what's needed... I would be doing more productive exercises over far smaller fences, fwiw nobody doubts your, or his, ability to jump big fences

He does look anxious and tight, who knows whether it is physical or mental: frankly, you and your physio are better placed than most of us to make a judgement on that So I'll assume it is at least primarily in his head. The problem is, of course, that as you come out of the corner, however good the canter has been up to that point, he loses his rhythm, starts bouncing and rushing, and you have no chance of getting to a pre-planned spot which is a bit problematic over 1.10m and downright nerve-wracking over 1.40! I think it is not helped by the fact you very consciously, and probably rightly in my view, ride with a very light seat when you are away from the fence, but as you turn to the fence you try to bring your seat into the saddle which coincides with his bouncing about which unseats you a little and results in you bouncing too, and resonance rules Bit uncomfortable for both of you... I would try a slightly more upright body position, combined with the light seat, more standing a little than crouching (look at how Piggy or Lucy Wiegersma do it), using your core to hold yourself, then try to maintain the same position on the approach, even if you come a little closer to the saddle, but don't try to sit down...

Personally, I'd like to see him trotting on a loose contact to place poles to low fences, with you just holding a neck strap to make sure he is balancing himself and not relying on your hands. After each fence I'd halt (dressage stylee not handbrake on!) pat, walk away, pick up trot, carry on. Then I'd start stringing them together, still returning to trot for the approach. Fences no bigger than about 90cm-1m. I'd be really concentrating on my own balance, making sure I was with him throughout approach, take-off, jump and landing, not behind him inadvertently driving, nor in front of the movement. Once he can do this happily and confidently, I would start canter exercises, using poles on the floor, on related distances to small fences (no bigger than before) and focussing on rhythm and self carriage, he mustn't rely on your hand and he mustn't speed up. It might take a little time to achieve, but in my experience if you are consistent and calm, you can get there surprisingly quickly. Once you reach that point then the fences can go back up and it will be easy peasy

I'm not suggesting in any way that it is awful at the moment, just that by taking a couple of steps back now it will be so much easier for you both to get your mojo back and start enjoying it again. Just my ho, feel free to ignore and no hard feelings

 

[_Rach_]

. I have watched bits of it. He is a lot like Twizzy at home, so here is a few things we do with her to try and calm her down, and keep her balanced and happy.

20m circle with tiny little jumps on.(e.g You could just use, those pink jumping blocks, nothing bigger than that really.) Place them at 3 points on the circle. Stay in trot (try and stay in trot- even if you can trot up to the fence and he lands and runs in canter, bring him quietly back to trot before the next one) nice loose reins like others have said, and let him work it out, when they are small, wobbles are fine, and if he messes up the stride, its fine, they are small enough for him to walk over. This is a fun exercise, you can mix it up with using skinnies, you can do it in trot and canter, I wouldn’t have anything bigger than 90cm.

When jumping a course, We really concentrate on me not chasing the fence down. Im not sure if jerry has ever done a dirty stop with you, if he has I understand the need for the pushing to the fence, if he hasn’t stopped, I don’t think you need to chase the fence down, if he is cantering happily forward he will get there, even if you cant see a stride im sure he can, when you start moving about it will only put him off. Even if he starts to wobble, you keep your legs on his side will be much more reassuring for him than elbow flapping. What I do, is when I feel myself wanting to drive to the fence, I sit up a little taller and tell myself to wait

Maybe not much help at all, but it might help.

 

[Gamebird]

Okely Dokely folks. I think that in the cold light of day I am wondering why on earth I would have let anyone see that video , but what's done 'tis done and it has been mostly a surprisingly positive experience. What a grown up bunch we can all be sometimes . For that my thanks! I don't feel quite so brave about it now but at the time I thought a 'warts and all' approach might be interesting. I blame the wine...

OK, down to the serious stuff and I'm not going to respond to posts individually but TD and KatB's replies have particularly stood out, amongst others.

- I'll repeat for those who missed it: this horse has had loads of physio. He has had some problems and a bit of veterinary intervention but I think he's pretty much sorted now and, as TD mentioned, I do kindof know my onions on that front . I do think however that he a) developed a way of going to cope with being a bit sore ie. short, choppy and rushing and b) mentally he still worries that it might hurt, which is harder to correct than the physical issues. Whoever commented on the 'lateral suppleness' bit (Scarlett?) - that post applied to a different horse, though I'm sure this one is deficient in it too!

- Polework and canterwork - we have been doing loads of canter poles and I try to ensure he stays deep and round with a reasonable stride length. The session on the video started with 15mins over poles. I do find it hard to transfer the improvements on the flat to the approach to the fences however. I'm also going to whinge that it's hard when 99% of the time you're on your own - fact. I spend hours getting on and off and moving/changing poles which isn't all that conducive to keeping the flow. It's possible that I don't do as much of this work on my own as I could as it's such a pain. However I shall give myself a kick and go and put the canter poles out again tonight (the yard policy of tidying everything away every session doesn't help either!! ). Thanks TD, I shall also be trotting to small fences (though I do do this fairly regularly, again probably not enough and probably with insufficient discipline).

- Height of fences - I agree with you and normally jump 1m-1.10 at home for most exercises. I find this height totally non-threatening on this horse and am able to keep a better rhythm as I'm not getting wound up about the stride being there. I also know how easy this is for him to jump so am much less inclined to push or fire him. The fences were bigger last night as I was trying to explain to my instructor how my riding changed when the fences got bigger and she wanted to see what I meant - I think I proved my point! Unfortunately someone only showed up to video right at the end so you have only a snapshot, not a true reflection of the session.

I think I can take a little more, though it must be constructive! I'll try to get some video of some polework/exercises to balance it out a bit otherwise I shall sound like I doth protest too much!

 

[SpottedCat]

My impression, fwiw, is that because you're expecting him to rush, you don't have him in front of the leg, especially on the turn. The canter looks nicey nice but not terribly up or punchy, until you turn to the fence.

I wonder if it'd help having a couple of small fences out and riding to them on a more continuous loop? It almost looks like you have everything quiet on the turn to preempt the rushing, but I think if you do that he feels maybe underpowered so then it's a viscious circle?

Feel free to ignore me, I probably haven't a clue what I'm on about!

 

[Gamebird]

My impression, fwiw, is that because you're expecting him to rush, you don't have him in front of the leg, especially on the turn. The canter looks nicey nice but not terribly up or punchy, until you turn to the fence.

I wonder if it'd help having a couple of small fences out and riding to them on a more continuous loop? It almost looks like you have everything quiet on the turn to preempt the rushing, but I think if you do that he feels maybe underpowered so then it's a viscious circle?

Feel free to ignore me, I probably haven't a clue what I'm on about!

I shan't ignore you!

You're right, speed and momentum do not always equal in front of the leg, and I think it's an easy trap to fall into with forward-going horses. I have also taken to using my elbows instead of my legs for some unknown reason. In front of the elbow....?

I think your idea sounds similar to Vicky's and I do find that it's when we come out of the turn that the rhythm disappears so I'll play with looping about a bit cheers.

 

[louisem]

Firstly,I haven't read many of the replies.
Jerry looks like a lovely,scopey,buzzy but slightly anxious,easily distracted horse. From what you have explained,you both are going through a confidence crisis,not really lack of confidence that either of you can do the job,but more that he doesn't 100% believe you and you don't completely trust him. So you start to hassel him a bit and then he worries that there is something scarier than what he is seeing so he gets even more anxious.
I do think his swishy tail is totally 'him' and when at the end of the vid,when your rhythm is better,it does become less. And for him,actually for all jumpers,rhythm is crucial (sp?) I feel that the size of your arena isn't helping at the moment because you are only getting one 'shot' and then you panic a little and 'fire' him (elbows,seat,the whole shebang) he's shooting forwards and worrying about hitting a pole and the whole thing becomes far too hasty?
Anyway,enough of my waffling,he's lovely,and if he were mine (and I wouldn't say no...) I would be telling myself,even ordering myself to SIT STILL. Concentrate on RHYTHM (count,sing,tick-tock,whatever) Try a placing pole at 5.5m on all the fences to stop you worrying about a distance and giving him a comfortable feeling. Also maybe instead of jumping higher,try using oxers and making them wider still using the placing pole. Canter more in the corner then wait quietly the last 3 strides (easier with that pole)
So,maybe useful,maybe not,but good luck anyway. He really has talent! (And you are not so bad yourself)

 

[SpottedCat]

Picking up on something else you've said, if you think/know your riding changes over bigger fences then the only cure I've found for this is to have really regular tuition with someone on the ground who you trust to help you override your instincts. It's what I've spent the last 18 months doing!

 

[tigers_eye]

Better still go and stay with Louise, she works magic!

 

[Vanha12]

totally sympathise with the being on your own bit and having to keep getting off to move poles - very difficult to keep interesting, productive and flowing sessions in these circumstances. I have exactly the same problem, just with smaller jumps; they look huuuuge to me!

 

[louisem]

Better still go and stay with Louise, she works magic!

Thanks for the vote of confidence!!!!
*Cackles quietly*

 

[kirstyhen]

I don't think anyone has suggested having his teeth checked, getting an Animal Communicator or Strapping a Crystal to his head, so there you go

My only actual suggestion is more Gin, 'cos I would have to be as drunk as a very drunk thing to canter down to those fences without flapping about And that's on my pony that scrapes over her fences, let alone one that catapults you into next week!

I'm just going to agree with louisem's post, I reckon she knows her eggs, so it might make me sound clever