A little bit of help please

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moodymare123

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So I am currently trying to combat a problem on regards of my liveries, they get 8kg a night in there livery package and if they want more they pay for it, now I do the part liveries in the week so I do the hay nets etc but on the weekends They have to do there own horses BUT I've got a feeling that they are giving their horses far more than 8kg so can anyone give me a little help on how to get on top of this as they get very much for the livery they pay (220 a month) and don't want to become bankrupt lol. many thanks!
 
I wish i had that method! I pay for every net. £1.50 a day for 19kg (cause 20kg is £3)

Unless you can be there literally every net, you just have to let it go i think. Two days is not going to bankrupt you i don't think. However i am looking at it from the livery side lol
 
Sorry, I think you need to work out how much your time (the amount it would take you to do the nets in advance) is worth compared to the hay you are "loosing".

Another thought - is it currently supposed to work on some kind of "honesty box" basis? The liveries weigh the nets and 'fess up to anything over the allowance?

Depending on the personalities you might be able to shame them into doing so... if you do the nets in the week you know how much you put, so, perhaps mention to liveries that you are a little concerned they aren't feeding enough as you put x kg per day and only a few strands are left in the morning or whatever? Then they have the choice of either saying they don't want to feed enough forage or upping the amount they record?
 
Most of my liveries are very honest but there is a couple which I'm unsure of! One of them being my friend and she has already said to one of my liveries "it's my friends yard I can do what I like" hmmmm not happy with that!
 
I think it would depend on whether 8kg is enough for the horse, it may be that a few require more than you are giving them and you need to charge a bit extra for those so they get enough, I give mine pretty much ad lib and find that the horses that eat more balance out the costs of the ones that eat less and no livery has ever been concerned about getting what they are paying for.

Many of mine would be hungry on 8kg it certainly would not last them very long at this time of year, so it may be that they are arriving on a Sat/ Sun morning and finding nothing left and a hungry horse so give more in the evening, I would ask them if they want to have more and put the price up to take it into account, I charge less for ponies than for horses for this reason as they do need and get less than the bigger ones, 8kgs is just under 1.5% of a 550 horse so for any over that it will be barely enough unless the grass is still very good.
 
As always I have sat down and gone through cash flow by what is included in there livery.
They get-
5 days mucking out
Turn out and bring in (includes rug changes and evening feed)
8 kg of hay
1 bag of woodpellets or 2 bales of straw
5 day poo picking
All this for £220 and like anyone I need to make a profit as a way of living a couple of liveries do pay that extra for extra hay in the evenings :-)
 
What about a couple of surprise visits at the weekend to check? Otherwise you're going to have to do the nets in advance on the Friday (although unless your hay bales are locked up anyone of a mind to do so will "top up"). They are getting a reasonable deal. Would there be any mileage in using group pressure? Say you know the majority are being honest but you have concerns that the books are not balancing. If there is something going on it needs to stop, otherwise costs will have to go up for everyone. But that depends on the personalities - and your appetite for a battle I suppose.
 
Seriously? All this over a few extra kg of hay twice a week when they are paying for livery? Mine get ad lib hay in their DIY package, home grown so there is plenty of it, and I charge enough to cover whatever they use. Maybe you could do the same - charge enough to cover all the hay they could possibly want, in the interests of having happy healthy horses? At most it would add a further £10 pm if that?
 
I don't think that you are charging enuff, that is an easy place to fall in to .......... £280 for bigger horses, up them to 10kg nets. They can have the outsize nets which are easily identifiable.
The price of good hay can be very variable, season to season. I don't know if you have explained this to them, or if you have costed haylage.
The yard I kept pony in was ad lib with haylage and hay, we fed our own,
there were small pony stables, medium stables and slightly bigger stables, so three levels of payment. I did see one person feeding ridiculous amounts, but that could have been stopped.
I paid about £220 in winter, and that was totally DIY. But included a bale of shavings delivered to stable once a week. It was a premium price, but it was usually full.

In the interim just put a notice up and scales in a public place, and ask them to weigh every net.
 
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I do not know where you are based, but £220 per month is a very good deal!
TBH some horses will need more and others less dependent on work load, condition, hard feed intake, etc.....I always find it odd when horses all get the same amount in kilograms irrelevant of size, hence why you get this problem at the week ends that the owners feel the horse needs more(They do not feel they should pay for it!). You either put the livery up by a fiver a month(Saying this is the only way I can cover the extra hay taken at weekends....might make the culprits think that others will be penalised for their actions!), or discuss the weight per net required by the owner.....most yards will charge less for ponies and more for horses....either way, it will be difficult to curb this....unless you put in CTV so you can catch them in the act!!!
 
It's easy saying that but those 3kg-4kg extra is 288kg a year so I'm not being silly at all, I don't run a livery yard for the fun of it I do it to make a living, luckily I don't have to pay to rent the yard or else I would really be bankrupt!!!!
 
I used to weigh my all feed when I had three, all on different regimes, and 8kg lasted my 14.3 for 5-6 hours, with a few strands left for morning. I know this cos I missed the bus once and had to sleep in the feed room right next to his stable.
I think that is the basic problem, they want their horses to get more, just do it and explain why the price is going up.
Ad lib forage has to be cheapest way of feeding, else they have to feed for condition, which is almost certainly more expensive.
 
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moodymare123 said:
It's easy saying that but those 3kg-4kg extra is 288kg a year so I'm not being silly at all, I don't run a livery yard for the fun of it I do it to make a living, luckily I don't have to pay to rent the yard or else I would really be bankrupt!!!!
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The 288kg a year for a few horses is the equivalent of around 10-12 small bales per horse per year so even if you cost them at £5 per bale by putting the livery up for all by £5 per month you will cover any extra plus a bit left over, if you buy in big bales then you will be making more so you will win, most people should expect a small increase every year or two so put it to them all that costs are going up so you are going to increase from 1/5/16, you should also find intake goes down in the summer to balance things out a little more in your favour.
 
I think your liveries currently get a very good deal. We're approaching Spring/summer so consumption will hopefully lessen soon. I'd just revise your pricing for the next calendar year. A small increase to cover more forage should be perfectly acceptable to your liveries, I would think.
 
you need to put your prices up so there is no need to worry about a few kg of hay, the run down yard I keep my mare on is £90 per month DIY and if you want livery on top of that it is £8-10 per day and you supply everything
 
I don't know where you are but £220 a month for what you offer is cheap! You could reassess your charges based on height of equine & have a sliding scale. Generally the bigger the equine the more hay/haylage they need so this would be seen to be fair.
 
Don't do it by the kilo.

Charge per small bale. Easy to manage and much simpler. Costs more to buy small bales but they can buy as many bales as they like then. You get paid per bale whether they use it or not.
 
Once you start worrying about 2 kg of hay your prices are too cheap -up the price and include in it ad lib hay
 
Up your price a little and make the hay ad lib. No more worries for anyone
Unless of course they start taking it off the yard (surely unlikely) xx
 
Another one who thinks your price is just too cheap - I think you should increase it and make hay available ad lib. And probably take a bit more profit! Unless the facilities are incredibly basic that really is very cheap indeed.
Where in the country did you say you were...
 
I would just shove up the livery a tenner a month and stop worrying.

I have never heard of a livery deal to incl only a certain kg of hay, but then i've only ever been DIY and mine are all fed adlib. 8kg wouldn't keep my 15hh boy fed for more than 4 hours
 
What you are offering is 5/2 livery essentially - I pay £85 pw for that and people think I have it cheap! I have no idea how you are making a living on that amount.
Put your prices up to cover ad lib, then you don't have to get into the kgs.
 
moodymare123 said:
Most of my liveries are very honest but there is a couple which I'm unsure of! One of them being my friend and she has already said to one of my liveries "it's my friends yard I can do what I like" hmmmm not happy with that!
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Sounds like your livery is a ***** stirrer, you have no proof that your friend said this but it seems she's been sentenced without a hearing.
 
I'm another who would put the price up and provide ad lib. I'd expect to pay around £300/month for what you provide plus ad lib forage at my yard, with decent but not top class facilities.
 
8KG of hay really isn't a lot. I've had this issue before on yards when I have been paying over £400 a month . My native needs as much as a bigger horse and if they are brought in at 2/3pm (as some yards do) then 8KG would be gone by tea time. I think just up the charge a little and let the liveries feed ad lib hay then everyone wins. Clearly you have to make a living and should not subsidise liveries, but they also will be concerned about the gut health of their horses, so it seems the best solution all round.
 
Your prices are very, very competitive, OP!

I do think you are undervaluing your livery provision. My very (very!) good doer costs nearly what you charge just on DIY (+ buying own bedding and forage), depending upon which hay source and which bedding type I use.

Your time is worth charging for and if you want to earn a living, you need to earn a wage :)
 
Another who thinks your price is rather cheap. Round here I would expect to pay between £70 - £90 per week including basic hard feed for what you are offering.

If you don't want to put your prices up then it would definitely be worth the effort of making up the weekend hay nets. From what you have written I am not sure if any of your liveries are getting more than 8kg on the days you normally do them. If they do then you can make up the weekend haynets with the additional amount of hay.
 
You arne't charging enough.

I have never ever been on a yard where I had a KG limit on Hay and I would never ever go onto a yard with such a restriction.

I pay £25 per week for my stable, £10 per week for them to feed and turn my horse out Monday - Friday in winter, and £10 per week for 2 haynets per day of any size as long as my horse is actually eating it all. She is out all day so I only use one net a day for overnight.

The question in my mind is, do the horses have alot of wastage from Sunday night on Monday morning? If not and they are getting more then you should be looking at your restriction.

You should be charging your liveries enough to cover these costs.
 
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