A little bit of help please

I also think the livery is too cheap, I used to pay £75 per week for full livery about 10 years ago I would expect to pay between £130 and £160 per week for full livery now but that's with ad lib hay and a basic short feed, and I agree 8kg of hay is not a lot for a horse in winter, mine get that at about 5pm but they get another net at about 10pm and they are small horses 15h and 15.3, I would put it up but up the hay limit.
 
I used to work on a yard that charged for haylage by the kg it was done on trust and liveries had to write down there daily amount they took in a book, but the yard owner would do random weighing if she thought people were taking the p, you could do this at the weekends perhaps and just sometimes turn up to have weigh of people's nets.
 
moodymare123 said:
As always I have sat down and gone through cash flow by what is included in there livery.
They get-
5 days mucking out
Turn out and bring in (includes rug changes and evening feed)
8 kg of hay
1 bag of woodpellets or 2 bales of straw
5 day poo picking
All this for £220 and like anyone I need to make a profit as a way of living a couple of liveries do pay that extra for extra hay in the evenings :-)
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You're undercharging! Round here there is one place does this sort of livery that I know is the cheapest for miles and charges £400/month. Most of the others offering this (admittedly with indoor and outdoor schools or some fab facilities) tend to charge £800+ per month!
Up your prices to cover the cost of the ad libbed hay, you cannot run at a loss!
 
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I am in shock... I charge £110 per month in winter and £85 a month in the summer. Included is..

Ad lib Hay
Ad lib Straw
24 hr turnout with Ad lib hay in field in winter
Turn out, bring in and rug change 5 days a week
Muck out 5 days (unless horse is out)
Basic Feed of mix or cubes, chaff or alfafa and sugarbeet and carrots or happy hoof for the fatties.
Facilities include floodlit school with jumps, x country course and instructor on site. I only have 4 liveries... the other horses are mine.....

Only extras are vets, farrier, wormers....

I thought I was expensive and feel awful because I need to increase by 10 a month to cover hay bills as didn't have a great crop last year so had to buy it in earlier than expected.
 
That does sound like a fairly horrible system TBH, asking for problems and stress as it encourages people to keep their horses on 8kg which will probably not be enough for most. Also very difficult to police.

I think you should either up your costs to cover ad lib hay (possibly on a sliding scale if you have tiny ponies and huge horses). Alternatively, people pay for what they use. I have been on a few yards like this, the one that worked best counted the number of bales used and each livery had a spot where their current bale was that was used by them or the yard staff for their horse.
 
Charmel said:
I am in shock... I charge £110 per month in winter and £85 a month in the summer. Included is..

Ad lib Hay
Ad lib Straw
24 hr turnout with Ad lib hay in field in winter
Turn out, bring in and rug change 5 days a week
Muck out 5 days (unless horse is out)
Basic Feed of mix or cubes, chaff or alfafa and sugarbeet and carrots or happy hoof for the fatties.
Facilities include floodlit school with jumps, x country course and instructor on site. I only have 4 liveries... the other horses are mine.....

Only extras are vets, farrier, wormers....

I thought I was expensive and feel awful because I need to increase by 10 a month to cover hay bills as didn't have a great crop last year so had to buy it in earlier than expected.
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I pay £108 per month for absolute DIY (buy own bedding/ feed/ forage/ etc), year around. We have great facilities but it makes it seem as though you are undercharging for livery/ your time, along with OP :)
 
I'm in a relatively expensive part of the country, but I was paying £35 for purely DIY. I am however from a very impoverished part of the country where DIY ranges from £10 to £30. You can actually be on DIY with adlib hay/haylage and straw for £38 a week in the winter, and less in the summer when they are out 24/7. I couldnt have found what your offering for anywhere near what your charging!
 
Charmel said:
I am in shock... I charge £110 per month in winter and £85 a month in the summer. Included is..

Ad lib Hay
Ad lib Straw
24 hr turnout with Ad lib hay in field in winter
Turn out, bring in and rug change 5 days a week
Muck out 5 days (unless horse is out)
Basic Feed of mix or cubes, chaff or alfafa and sugarbeet and carrots or happy hoof for the fatties.
Facilities include floodlit school with jumps, x country course and instructor on site. I only have 4 liveries... the other horses are mine.....

Only extras are vets, farrier, wormers....

I thought I was expensive and feel awful because I need to increase by 10 a month to cover hay bills as didn't have a great crop last year so had to buy it in earlier than expected.
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You cannot think charging under £30 per week for adlib hay/ straw with 5 day livery is cheap!!!! you have either put in the wrong price, I read it as £110 per week initially, or you are losing money on each of the 4 liveries, supplementing the owners and massively undercharging, even DIY with hay/ straw should be more than that, no wonder yards are going out of business as they will not be able to compete in a market where someone is prepared to run at such a loss.
I cost the horses on my yard at about £20 per week for hay/ straw and would struggle to do it for less, add on the box, field use, plus mucking out etc. to do it for any less than £60 -80 per week you would be better off leaving the stables empty.
 
JillA said:
Seriously? All this over a few extra kg of hay twice a week when they are paying for livery? Mine get ad lib hay in their DIY package, home grown so there is plenty of it, and I charge enough to cover whatever they use. Maybe you could do the same - charge enough to cover all the hay they could possibly want, in the interests of having happy healthy horses? At most it would add a further £10 pm if that?
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This!
 
You are charging far too little OP. If you charge £220 per month, that is under £55 a week, which is insane for what you include! You could easily charge another £20 per week and it would still be extremely reasonable. I would just put your prices up tbh, then they can have ad lib hay and you don't need to worry about every penny.
 
HashRouge said:
You are charging far too little OP. If you charge £220 per month, that is under £55 a week, which is insane for what you include! You could easily charge another £20 per week and it would still be extremely reasonable. I would just put your prices up tbh, then they can have ad lib hay and you don't need to worry about every penny.
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Correct.
 
In reply to me being too cheap.

I have a full time job, this is done as an extra, as my hobby not my job and my daughters help.. Most of Hay is cut off my fields and I swap some with a local farmer for straw (though difficult last year) and if you are doing 10 horses of your own an extra 4 is neither here or there really. The four liveries all work or cant get there every day so I would rather just treat them the same as mine so if mine are out over night so are theirs, mine in so are theirs. My liveries help out a bit with mine on the weekends if they are about and generally its a very happy place with no issues over charging. If they want extra or different hard feed they buy their own. I buy feed in bulk so cheaper. I haven't really sat down and worked it out.
 
Charmel said:
In reply to me being too cheap.

I have a full time job, this is done as an extra, as my hobby not my job and my daughters help.. Most of Hay is cut off my fields and I swap some with a local farmer for straw (though difficult last year) and if you are doing 10 horses of your own an extra 4 is neither here or there really. The four liveries all work or cant get there every day so I would rather just treat them the same as mine so if mine are out over night so are theirs, mine in so are theirs. My liveries help out a bit with mine on the weekends if they are about and generally its a very happy place with no issues over charging. If they want extra or different hard feed they buy their own. I buy feed in bulk so cheaper. I haven't really sat down and worked it out.
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You sound like a very kind person but you are without a doubt subsidising your liveries by a considerable amount. I'm in a relatively cheap part of the country and pay £25 a week for DIY, and £15 a week in winter for ad lib haylage. My yard is well maintained and has an outdoor school but nowhere near the facilities you have. If you doubled your price for what you offer it would still be cheap. Nobody is saying you have to charge more, but make sure your liveries know just how good a deal they have. If they genuinely help out when they are there, it would go someway to mitigating the cheap livery, but please don't be taken advantage of.
 
Charmel said:
In reply to me being too cheap.

I have a full time job, this is done as an extra, as my hobby not my job and my daughters help.. Most of Hay is cut off my fields and I swap some with a local farmer for straw (though difficult last year) and if you are doing 10 horses of your own an extra 4 is neither here or there really. The four liveries all work or cant get there every day so I would rather just treat them the same as mine so if mine are out over night so are theirs, mine in so are theirs. My liveries help out a bit with mine on the weekends if they are about and generally its a very happy place with no issues over charging. If they want extra or different hard feed they buy their own. I buy feed in bulk so cheaper. I haven't really sat down and worked it out.
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I don't know where you are in the country but that is still cheap that would just get you a stable each month round here, I would imagine your liveries are very happy they are getting a very good deal, I would sit down and work out what's they are getting and put the price up it may just be a hobby but why do it for nothing.
 
annagain said:
You sound like a very kind person but you are without a doubt subsidising your liveries by a considerable amount. I'm in a relatively cheap part of the country and pay £25 a week for DIY, and £15 a week in winter for ad lib haylage. My yard is well maintained and has an outdoor school but nowhere near the facilities you have. If you doubled your price for what you offer it would still be cheap. Nobody is saying you have to charge more, but make sure your liveries know just how good a deal they have. If they genuinely help out when they are there, it would go someway to mitigating the cheap livery, but please don't be taken advantage of.
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My friends tell me exactly the same thing :) I should really have a look at what it costs me. I constantly have people asking me to move onto the yard but I leave several stables as I don't need any more work and its a private yard with 4 liveries rather than a full blown livery yard. . Can't see my 4 liveries ever leaving, it is a very happy yard, however I have told the one that he can't not have another horse on the yard as it would be extra work and cost to me, plus he asked for a discount on an extra one. I will work out cost and if I am losing maybe I should have a yard meeting and discuss an increase because I am sure that they would pay the extra if I asked...
 
annagain said:
That is seriously taking the p***.
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Agreed but he can be a bit like that... he is the only one who never helps and complains about cost of everything. I arrange everything for him farrier annual jabs etc. as the horse was his wife's who died, so he hasn't got a clue really but thinks he should breed from his horse again as he thinks his wife would have liked that.... he is quite mad really but I love the mare, she is an absolute sweetheart and I worry about her welfare if she ever left me. Bearing in mind he didn't realise farrier required more than twice a year and that there have to have hay even if you feed hard food when I first met him.
 
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