A livery’s horse hit my car - who pays?

[OlderNotWiser]

Today a groom was leading a full
livery horse out to the field when she spooked and swung into my car. There is a sizeable dent in the tailgate. The yard owner is saying that the owner has to pay for the damage but surely as the horse was in the charge of the groom it is down to the yard’s liability cover or the grooms own insurance? Anyone have any experience of this?
(Edited for grammar)

 

[HopOnTrot]

Employers insurance would pay I imagine but I would just pass it onto your car insurance company

 

[Gloi]

If I was the owner I'd be annoyed if they expected me to pay for the groom's bad handling.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

Just a guess, but your 1st point is the YO, she needs to deal with you via her business/employee insurance.
They may then claim against the owner or groom (if groom is a freelancer)

How much do you not want to have YO problems tho....

 

[AmyMay]

YO.

 

[Backtoblack]

Yard owner or groom if the groom is freelance then the groom. Unless the car was parked causing an obstruction to the horse's route in which case it's the car owners fault.

 

[OlderNotWiser]

Employers insurance would pay I imagine but I would just pass it onto your car insurance company

I was hoping to avoid using my car insurance as they tend to increase the premium even with a ‘no fault claim’. And it’s my son-in-law’s car which I was borrowing (I’m on his insurance).

 

[Abacus]

Definitely YO. And don't be persuaded into dealing directly with the owner about it, it's up to the YO and staff if they want to claim against the owner (though I wouldn't think they have a case).

 

[Tiddlypom]

Unless the car was parked causing an obstruction to the horse's route in which case it's the car owners fault.

Even if the intended route was partially blocked by a car, it’s the horse’s handler who decides whether it is safe to lead the horse past the car. It is never right to barrel past with insufficient room.

Hand it over to the car’s insurance co and let them fight it out with the other parties. If the groom is an employee, then it should come off the yard’s insurance if indeed they have any.

 

[marmalade76]

Is it not the case that cars are parked at your own risk? I park my car on the yard, if my yard mate's horse dinged it I would consider it my fault for parking it on a yard where there are horses but that said I drive old cars that I own outright.

 

[OlderNotWiser]

Even if a car park says ‘at your own risk’ and ours doesn’t, there are circumstances where it’s unenforceable.
This mare hates the tractor which the groom knows and yet she led the horse out past the tractor and she spooked a considerable distance before hitting the car. If it was only a dink I would suck it up but it’s a substantial dent.

 

[Abacus]

Even if a car park says ‘at your own risk’ and ours doesn’t, there are circumstances where it’s unenforceable.
This mare hates the tractor which the groom knows and yet she led the horse out past the tractor and she spooked a considerable distance before hitting the car. If it was only a dink I would suck it up but it’s a substantial dent.

That makes it even more the groom or employer's liability, as she knew that the horse was scared of something and took a risk, knowingly. Unfortunately though I don't think you can avoid talking to the insurance company unless your YO just agrees to pay or claim on her insurance (or indeed chase the horse owner to pay). If you were to tell her to deal with your insurance company she might give in. Doesn't make life comfortable at the yard though.

Was't thee a case in court just a few days ago about a girl hurt when an RDA horse chucked her off? A lot of the decision was based on whether the horse was known to be reliable/unreliable and whether the girl riding knew that.

 

[nagblagger]

Even if a car park says ‘at your own risk’ and ours doesn’t, there are circumstances where it’s unenforceable.
This mare hates the tractor which the groom knows and yet she led the horse out past the tractor and she spooked a considerable distance before hitting the car. If it was only a dink I would suck it up but it’s a substantial dent.

Groom or YO, if i was the owner of the horse i wouldn't be happy that the groom put her at risk.

 

[ihatework]

I wouldn’t get into a debate about it.
The YO has to deal with it - whether it’s off their PL or the owners PL will be down to them to negotiate - it’s not your problem!

I’d lay the expectation that the YO is liable in your eyes and they will be the one receiving the initial bill.

 

[Apercrumbie]

Even if a car park says ‘at your own risk’ and ours doesn’t, there are circumstances where it’s unenforceable.
This mare hates the tractor which the groom knows and yet she led the horse out past the tractor and she spooked a considerable distance before hitting the car. If it was only a dink I would suck it up but it’s a substantial dent.

I imagine the horse's owner is quite annoyed that her horse was put in this position then - the horse could easily have been injured and it sounds like it was an avoidable situation if the groom knows the horse hates the tractor.
ETA - IMO it's the YO's responsibility, not the owner's.

 

[Fieldlife]

I imagine the horse's owner is quite annoyed that her horse was put in this position then - the horse could easily have been injured and it sounds like it was an avoidable situation if the groom knows the horse hates the tractor.
ETA - IMO it's the YO's responsibility, not the owner's.

Playing devils advocate, if grooms job is to bring horses in / turn them out and tractor is nearby, what do you expect them to do? Especially if YO us aware of tractor location?

 

[lauragreen85]

Today a groom was leading a full
livery horse out to the field when she spooked and swung into my car. There is a sizeable dent in the tailgate. The yard owner is saying that the owner has to pay for the damage but surely as the horse was in the charge of the groom it is down to the yard’s liability cover or the grooms own insurance? Anyone have any experience of this?
(Edited for grammar)

I would say yard owners insurance . is there much damage?

 

[scruffyponies]

I'm pretty sure neither YO or owner's insurance may not pay out as I think the claimant had to prove fault and that's hard in this situation.
You can pay out of pocket to get it fixed at a reputable 'low overhead' type place (usually found operating out of farm buildings somewhere). The cost to repair a dent is likely less than the excess on a claim, and your insurance need never know.

 

[Squeak]

Is it worth maybe getting a quote for the damage just so you all know what your dealing with? You may be really lucky and it's not as expensive as you're expecting.

 

[LEC]

Also it depends how much you like your yard as the attitude already indicates that you and the yard owner might not be seeing eye to eye.

 

[Pinkvboots]

Playing devils advocate, if grooms job is to bring horses in / turn them out and tractor is nearby, what do you expect them to do? Especially if YO us aware of tractor location?

Wait to pass by the tractor safely or ask them to stop and turn off the engine off if it is stationary where you meed to walk.

 

[blitznbobs]

It’s without doubt the yard owners responsibility (unless the groom is freelance then it is theirs) it is not the horse owners who has used a professional to do a service which they have been negligent in doing. If they knew the risks then they could have asked you to move your car before bringing the horses through. Definitely the groom’s fault so it depends how the groom is employed

 

[Fieldlife]

Wait to pass by the tractor safely or ask them to stop and turn off the engine off if it is stationary where you meed to walk.

I’d assumed it was turned off & stationary when horse spooked at it.

 

[Pinkvboots]

I’d assumed it was turned off & stationary when horse spooked at it.

I didn't assume it was because the horse spooked.

 

[Lois Lame]

I’d assumed it was turned off & stationary when horse spooked at it.

I did too.

 

[Lois Lame]

I didn't assume it was because the horse spooked.

I assumed that the tractor wasn't normally parked there.

 

[Pinkvboots]

I assumed that the tractor wasn't normally parked there.

See I just thought the tractor was on the move.

 

[Apercrumbie]

Playing devils advocate, if grooms job is to bring horses in / turn them out and tractor is nearby, what do you expect them to do? Especially if YO us aware of tractor location?

As the groom knows that the horse is very scared of tractors, I expect them to wait until the tractor has gone before leading them.

 

[Pinkvboots]

One of mine is not great with any motor vehicle so tractors are probably the scariest thing, I wouldn't risk leading him or riding him through a small gap or near anything he could knock if I'm near one, as he will rush past and then looses the ability to be aware of what is around him.

I have turned around or gone a different way to avoid them in the past, if someone handling my horse put him in a situation where he hit something I would hold them responsible and be really angry.

 

[ycbm]

Playing devils advocate, if grooms job is to bring horses in / turn them out and tractor is nearby, what do you expect them to do? Especially if YO us aware of tractor location?

Wait, but if it's impossible to move the tractor, lead the horse with the groom between the horse and the tractor, so that if it gets near the car they can turn the head towards and the bum away from the car.