A livery rant 😩 why is it so hard?!

[Traks]

Feel free to scroll past, I am just feeling fed up and very disheartened about having a horse on livery why is it so hard to find somewhere that meets your horses basic needs of turnout, a clean stable and nice people running it?!!!

We live in a very rural part of the world, Herefordshire, so you’d think brilliant, lots of yards to chose from! Nope! Majority of horse owners here have their horses at home…livery yards are few and far between and the standards are shocking! I’ve been to a few in the past 3 years (was on full livery but I cannot explain how bad these yards were, basic horse needs not being met among some reasons) I’ve recently changed to DIY and absolutely love having the control over how much bedding my horse gets, how much hay she is given and all her management is now up to me. It’s bliss!

However I’ve just found out that the yard owner is likely going to have to move as her landlord is making noises…so we could be homeless again soon! We’ve literally just moved last month

Prior to this recent moved I spent ages trying to find somewhere, and I mean I REALLY tried, advertised, contacted every horse owner I knew to ask if they knew of anywhere, the vet, my physio, even random people that I had heard might do livery. I also tried to find a field or anywhere that might work…In the end my friend offered us a stable at hers but obviously now we are facing the prospect of looking again…

I honestly feel so defeated, we cannot afford to buy a property with land or stables, we can’t move areas as my daughter is about to start secondary school and we need to be in the catchment etc (we are now).

We were briefly at a yard 30 mins away which was actually fine but it was only DIY and impossible to work around that twice a day in winter with my work (an hour away) and childcare etc etc

Argh at this point I wish I could just up the whole horse thing it’s driving me mad!!!

Sorry for the rant!

 

[Flowerofthefen]

Sorry to hear you are struggling. We're you allowed to help each other out at your previous DIY yard? It could mean only going once a day?

 

[Traks]

Sorry to hear you are struggling. We're you allowed to help each other out at your previous DIY yard? It could mean only going once a day?

There were only 3 of us, the yard owner and another lady. Both did their own and didn’t have any capacity to help with mine (I did ask). That was what I was hoping for when we moved there in summer…I’d have had to get a freelancer every morning which would have cost a lot on top of the livery cost, plus I hated being so far away from the pony…and it was exhausting working all day then doing the drive, it’s not an easy one on little back lanes and in winter I’d never get there for flooded roads etc x

 

[tda]

Is it worth asking the landlord if you can stay DIY if you just want no frills?

 

[Traks]

Is it worth asking the landlord if you can stay DIY if you just want no frills?

no alas, the yard is rented with the house plus I think he wants the paddocks for crops as she keeps making noises about the fields being taken off her!

She says she’d find somewhere for our pony too if she does move as she has 5 of her own but…!! Hate the uncertainty x

 

[lynz88]

Unfortunately nothing to add other than I know how you feel. I am dying to get off part livery and do assisted DIY elsewhere. I am so sick of constantly having to monitor and be down anyways because staff can't do the most simplest of tasks even when you ask and have it on a rug chart...and dont even get me started on feeding properly....

 

[blitznbobs]

It’s just not worth it to land lords to rent for diy - what you can charge doesn’t cover costs. And land is expensive these days and people want 24 hour turnout so that if you don’t want it to look like a bog requires a lot of land … it’s not surprising there aren’t many options … and it’s just going to get worse as cost of staff and supplies go up … it’s just cost me 5k for a small patch to be post and railed so even though I have the land to utilise it is very expensive and to break even I’d have to charge a lot more than people are willing to pay

 

[awelshandawarmblood]

We have the same here, vast majority keep horses at home so very few liveries. Ive moved from yard to yard for this very reason over the years. Promised the world & always delivered less than sub standard care. Ive been on DIY, part & full, but in all cases where Ive had assistance Ive ended up having to double check or go anyway as I couldnt trust them. Ive luckily at last now ended up at a friend's field where we help each other out I can pay a close friend who's a freelancer to cover. Could you find land to share with a friend? I completely understand where you're coming from though, Im done with livery.

 

[Traks]

Ive moved from yard to yard for this very reason over the years. Promised the world & delivered less than sub standard care in some cases. Ive been on DIY, part & full, but in all cases where Ive had assistance Ive ended up having to double check or go anywhere as I couldnt trust them. Ive luckily at last now ended up at a friend's field where we help each other out I can pay a close friend who's a freelancer to cover. Could you find land to share with a friend? I completely understand where you're coming from though, Im done with livery.

Yeah I think she is looking at alternative yards for her horses, hopefully we can go where she goes I’m just a bit shocked that I’m in this situation as I had no idea when I moved there a month ago this was on the cards

I spent all summer trying to find a field or something to rent either myself or with a friend or two…literally nothing.

I know it’s the same whatever livery you are on, part full or DIY! I’d do full livery again but there are only a couple nearby and I’ve been to them all and they all had major issues! I don’t want 24/7 turnout I’m fine with less over winter…just some form of turnout would be nice (previous yard had them in all the time bar 2 sessions on the horse walker for an hour at a time and occasionally they could go in the field for a few hours once or twice a week). I know DIY is scarce…I was paying over £600 a month for the one above with no turnout. Money isn’t actually the issue, I just want a decent home for our pony…

Thanks for listening to my moaning, I know I’m not alone x

 

[Traks]

It’s just not worth it to land lords to rent for diy - what you can charge doesn’t cover costs. And land is expensive these days and people want 24 hour turnout so that if you don’t want it to look like a bog requires a lot of land … it’s not surprising there aren’t many options … and it’s just going to get worse as cost of staff and supplies go up … it’s just cost me 5k for a small patch to be post and railed so even though I have the land to utilise it is very expensive and to break even I’d have to charge a lot more than people are willing to pay

I don’t mind paying more, been full livery for years but the 3 yards near me are all shocking in their own ways and I have ended up doing DIY because that is all I could find…I do prefer it though as now my horse gets fed, a decent bed and I can choose how much hay she gets. I’ve forsaken very good facilities to be able to just keep her in a nice clean stable with ad lib hay and turnout. I don’t even have an arena where we are now, have had to compromise massively for where we are and now even that isn’t enough long term x

 

[pistolpete]

We’ve discussed this before. Isn’t it sad. All the riding schools around here south of england seem to be closing down. The roads are busier than ever. I hack in some forestry commission land and that’s currently horrendous due to tree felling. Think keeping horses will only be for the people that have their own land. Sad times.

 

[Traks]

We’ve discussed this before. Isn’t it sad. All the riding schools around here south of england seem to be closing down. The roads are busier than ever. I hack in some forestry commission land and that’s currently horrendous due to tree felling. Think keeping horses will only be for the people that have their own land. Sad times.

I think you are absolutely right, I honestly don’t blame yards that can’t make it work financially, I totally get it why so many are closing (I know of at least 4 that have closed in the past 18 months).

It just makes me so sad that I can’t find a yard for my daughters pony, she’s doing so well with her and just wants to have fun…she just wants some security for her as do I, she’s totally stressing about her being homeless I’d honestly sell up and move to another part of the country if we could but alas we can’t x

 

[Sussexbythesea]

I feel your pain. My yard of 14yrs closed down last year. After one move that didn’t work out I’ve got them at two separate yards with one on part-livery and one living out 24/7. I can’t afford the part-livery but I can’t find anything else vaguely suitable for him (need a school and individual turnout due to behaviour) or two spaces together and it’s been over a year! I feel in constant state of stress about it.

I think the horse world is going to go into free fall and it will eventually affect all horse owners even those fortunate to own their own land as the reducing numbers will end up making a lot of horse related suppliers also unviable as usually it’s the many that keep a business going not the one or two wealthy ones.

I keep looking at moving away from the area just so I can find places to keep my horses but not sure where that is . Any suggestions welcome

 

[Traks]

I feel your pain. My yard of 14yrs closed down last year. After one move that didn’t work out I’ve got them at two separate yards with one on part-livery and one living out 24/7. I can’t afford the part-livery but I can’t find anything else vaguely suitable for him (need a school and individual turnout due to behaviour) or two spaces together and it’s been over a year! I feel in constant state of stress about it.

I think the horse world is going to go into free fall and it will eventually affect all horse owners even those fortunate to own their own land as the reducing numbers will end up making a lot of horse related suppliers also unviable as usually it’s the many that keep a business going not the one or two wealthy ones.

I keep looking at moving away from the area just so I can find places to keep my horses but not sure where that is . Any suggestions welcome

Oh goodness that’s awful!!! how stressful for you, I hope you find something suitable soon, it’s such a worry isn’t it?! What area are you looking for? Perhaps someone on here can help?

I have lots of horsey friends through pony club and I am the only one who keeps at livery, I don’t think the others all get it at all…I’m so envious of them with their own fields and farms (which I know do come at a cost too to other things).

It’s meant to be a fun enjoyable experience isn’t it?! considering what we pay you’d think it would be possible to find something! And yes I totally relate to wanting to move to another part of the country where there are more options!!! Not that easy though is it? I’ll keep everything crossed for you! Xx

 

[kaiserchief]

I just spotted this on Facebook, a small individual setup in Lea: https://www.facebook.com/groups/153...3603902652061/?sale_post_id=24303603902652061

If you're the forest side of Hereford it may suit? Obviously not if you're the Brecon side. Good luck, I hope you find somewhere soon. The one thing that really surprised me moving here was how few livery yards there are! The other side of the river they're everywhere.

 

[Traks]

I just spotted this on Facebook, a small individual setup in Lea: https://www.facebook.com/groups/153...3603902652061/?sale_post_id=24303603902652061

If you're the forest side of Hereford it may suit? Obviously not if you're the Brecon side. Good luck, I hope you find somewhere soon. The one thing that really surprised me moving here was how few livery yards there are! The other side of the river they're everywhere.

Thank you that sounds ideal except we are north Herefordshire, the worst location 🫩 I know it’s absolutely unbelievable how bad the yard situation is here, further south there are loads of options!!

I would honestly never ever recommend this area for anyone thinking of moving this way, look elsewhere!

 

[pistolpete]

Just seen four acres advertised down her guide price £125,000. Probably go for more. It’s not even fenced and not sure you could get equestrian use.

 

[Traks]

Just seen four acres advertised down her guide price £125,000. Probably go for more. It’s not even fenced and not sure you could get equestrian use.

I know, this is the issue!! I keep seeing small parcels of land being sold off, but they stick the work “potential for development “ on the listing and they go for hundreds of thousands…

I’ve been around horses for over 25 years and have never known it this bad, I wish I had a Time Machine and could go back and buy a small holding pre covid! Ugh!

 

[I'm Dun]

I don’t mind paying more, been full livery for years but the 3 yards near me are all shocking in their own ways and I have ended up doing DIY because that is all I could find…I do prefer it though as now my horse gets fed, a decent bed and I can choose how much hay she gets. I’ve forsaken very good facilities to be able to just keep her in a nice clean stable with ad lib hay and turnout. I don’t even have an arena where we are now, have had to compromise massively for where we are and now even that isn’t enough long term x

I found the more you paid the worse it was! The best yard I was on was the cheapest, but it was 45mins away on the way to work. Fine pre covid, not doable for DIY afterwards. Its horrible. I'm sorry your going through this. I gave up horses and dont miss the yard stuff at all.

 

[Traks]

I found the more you paid the worse it was! The best yard I was on was the cheapest, but it was 45mins away on the way to work. Fine pre covid, not doable for DIY afterwards. Its horrible. I'm sorry your going through this. I gave up horses and dont miss the yard stuff at all.

True, the most expensive yard we have been at was definitely the worst!

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

I'm a DIY YO, which I run from home. Only 8 horses here, including mine.

We all get on fine here; purely because I live here, I make darn sure that nobody comes through the gates that I get any sort of bad vibes about. In 30 yrs of doing this I've only ever had a handful of people who either I had to show the gate PDQ, OR they chose to take that route themselves pretty quickly.

The problem re. "standards" is that DIY livery is totally unregulated. If it WERE to be regulated, then guess what, we'd all have to bump up our prices very considerably. And then imagine the outcry.

The reason bad yards - and bad YO's - continue to operate, is I guess because nobody challenges bad management, bad horse-care, and poor facilities. Plus - and you lot aren't gonna like this! - a lot of owners expect to pay coca-cola prices for champagne livery. Yes keeping horses is expensive, but we as YO's need to have enough capital held in-hand for emergencies like (as happened last year) fixing a field-shelter that had disintegrated in the storms, or to repair fencing (never cheap, even if you can get someone!), muck-heap removal (again not cheap but has to be done), as well as possibly employing staff to help out if needed (I don't, but some yards need to). Then you get expenses such as water (I'm on metered here, so every drop has to be paid for - and I frankly dread someone wanting to soak hay as this is massively expensive on my water-use). Electricity isn't such a headache here as I'm on solar power, but if there's a yard where people are using the school at night with the spotlights on, this can run-up a huge electric bill in no time.

Then there's the owners who are quite happy to ignore what the YO is saying about how one wet windy winter's night their horse "looks a bit colicky and it might be best to call the vet" and then only decides to call the vet when you are very insistent. Then do they sit-up with said horse all night and make sure all is well?? Ummmh, nope. I did. I did it for the horse and not the owner, and I know that with my current liveries I wouldn't have to do it, but this is the sort of "extra services" which a good YO will do as a matter of course (for which we do not charge, or at least I don't, and yes I know I'm soft in the head).

Sorry, didn't mean to rant.

Sorry you are having to move from your current yard OP, it is always very unsettling when this happens. Hope you find somewhere.

 

[SEL]

The stress of having to move yards too often (change of ownership, housing development x 2) is what led me to beg & borrow to buy my place. Since then more yards have been allocated to housing too.

 

[sarcasm_queen]

Would any of the PC friends have space for your 2?

 

[lynz88]

I'm a DIY YO, which I run from home. Only 8 horses here, including mine.

We all get on fine here; purely because I live here, I make darn sure that nobody comes through the gates that I get any sort of bad vibes about. In 30 yrs of doing this I've only ever had a handful of people who either I had to show the gate PDQ, OR they chose to take that route themselves pretty quickly.

The problem re. "standards" is that DIY livery is totally unregulated. If it WERE to be regulated, then guess what, we'd all have to bump up our prices very considerably. And then imagine the outcry.

The reason bad yards - and bad YO's - continue to operate, is I guess because nobody challenges bad management, bad horse-care, and poor facilities. Plus - and you lot aren't gonna like this! - a lot of owners expect to pay coca-cola prices for champagne livery. Yes keeping horses is expensive, but we as YO's need to have enough capital held in-hand for emergencies like (as happened last year) fixing a field-shelter that had disintegrated in the storms, or to repair fencing (never cheap, even if you can get someone!), muck-heap removal (again not cheap but has to be done), as well as possibly employing staff to help out if needed (I don't, but some yards need to). Then you get expenses such as water (I'm on metered here, so every drop has to be paid for - and I frankly dread someone wanting to soak hay as this is massively expensive on my water-use). Electricity isn't such a headache here as I'm on solar power, but if there's a yard where people are using the school at night with the spotlights on, this can run-up a huge electric bill in no time.

Then there's the owners who are quite happy to ignore what the YO is saying about how one wet windy winter's night their horse "looks a bit colicky and it might be best to call the vet" and then only decides to call the vet when you are very insistent. Then do they sit-up with said horse all night and make sure all is well?? Ummmh, nope. I did. I did it for the horse and not the owner, and I know that with my current liveries I wouldn't have to do it, but this is the sort of "extra services" which a good YO will do as a matter of course (for which we do not charge, or at least I don't, and yes I know I'm soft in the head).

Sorry, didn't mean to rant.

Sorry you are having to move from your current yard OP, it is always very unsettling when this happens. Hope you find somewhere.

Your yard sounds amazing. I would happily pay what I am paying if I got that type of service. Instead, I pay nearly £900/month for an overgrazed field with sketchy at best fencing, horse never fed properly and I buy in my own feed at my own additional cost (no discount) at which yard staff let me run out a few weeks ago.

In addition, horse is never rugged properly despite having a rug/weather chart and he is already a skinny monster so drops more weight. I want him kept warm and snuggly to help him at minimum, maintain weight. I ask, and ask, and ask but it isn't until I complain to the resident vet that things change and horse is finally rugged properly. Horse loses weight but despite me adding more feed and oil, have to beg for more hay (which I think is only fair given I am paying to feed someone else's horse each month anyways).

Yard staff also changed horse's feed and didnt tell me once. I had to seakily trap them in order for them to admit. I also asked yard staff to take him off of alfalfa and yard staff continued to feed it to him citing he was fine. Funny...eventually get them to take him off and suddenly he isnt a super duper itchy horse.

Fairly recently the yard staff announced that if you need your horse's feet sprayed or anything (particularly in the winter), then you have to come and do it yourself. I have also found other horse wee in my horse's stable not cleaned out recently.

The plus side is horse has his friends and is generally happy. He gets all day turnout which he needs. We have an indoor and outdoor school along with a lot of great hacking. But I have had enough for the price that I am paying.

Oh yes and I make daily supplement pots at which I am down about 4 containers in a matter of 8 months of doing this.

Sorry turned into a bit of a rant!!

 

[Fire sign]

Gosh this is making me realise how very lucky I am … my yard owner is so flexible and lovely and treats every horse like an individual .. its not perfect or immaculate but it works for all of us and she is always full x

 

[Orangehorse]

Herefordshire isn't easy, is it? You think its a rural county but as you say, most people keep their horses at home.

It is the same as the bridlepath situation, is there even a bridlepath association in the County?


I hope you are able to find somewhere.

 

[Cloball]

Just seen four acres advertised down her guide price £125,000. Probably go for more. It’s not even fenced and not sure you could get equestrian use.

There's a 8 acre horse field on quite a slope at the bottom of my road on the market for 800k for development... It has been on for at least 4 years though and is down wind from the sewage works

 

[Traks]

Herefordshire isn't easy, is it? You think its a rural county but as you say, most people keep their horses at home.

It is the same as the bridlepath situation, is there even a bridlepath association in the County?


I hope you are able to find somewhere.

Oh no bridlepaths are non existent here, it’s a sad state of affairs for horse owners sadly unless you have your own place. I’ve lived in lots of places and honestly this is the worst ever! I think I had more yard options when I lived on the west of the M25!

 

[Traks]

Your yard sounds amazing. I would happily pay what I am paying if I got that type of service. Instead, I pay nearly £900/month for an overgrazed field with sketchy at best fencing, horse never fed properly and I buy in my own feed at my own additional cost (no discount) at which yard staff let me run out a few weeks ago.

In addition, horse is never rugged properly despite having a rug/weather chart and he is already a skinny monster so drops more weight. I want him kept warm and snuggly to help him at minimum, maintain weight. I ask, and ask, and ask but it isn't until I complain to the resident vet that things change and horse is finally rugged properly. Horse loses weight but despite me adding more feed and oil, have to beg for more hay (which I think is only fair given I am paying to feed someone else's horse each month anyways).

Yard staff also changed horse's feed and didnt tell me once. I had to seakily trap them in order for them to admit. I also asked yard staff to take him off of alfalfa and yard staff continued to feed it to him citing he was fine. Funny...eventually get them to take him off and suddenly he isnt a super duper itchy horse.

Fairly recently the yard staff announced that if you need your horse's feet sprayed or anything (particularly in the winter), then you have to come and do it yourself. I have also found other horse wee in my horse's stable not cleaned out recently.

The plus side is horse has his friends and is generally happy. He gets all day turnout which he needs. We have an indoor and outdoor school along with a lot of great hacking. But I have had enough for the price that I am paying.

Oh yes and I make daily supplement pots at which I am down about 4 containers in a matter of 8 months of doing this.

Sorry turned into a bit of a rant!!

This honestly doesn’t surprise me for a second, it seems these yards can just get away with being shocking because people either stay because they have no alternative or they leave when they’ve had enough.

I hope something better comes up for you soon x

 

[lynz88]

This honestly doesn’t surprise me for a second, it seems these yards can just get away with being shocking because people either stay because they have no alternative or they leave when they’ve had enough.

I hope something better comes up for you soon x

Thank you. I am only still there because I am on a waitlist elsewhere. I also do not have a car so limits me even more. Unfortunately (but maybe fortunately?) that yard thst I am waitlisted for doesnt have a huge turnover. I am willing to accept humans make mistakes and won't say a thing over small things but almost every week it seems to be something.

I really hope you find somewhere. It is incredibly frustrating and even more frustrating if you have a high maintenance horse/pony.