a musing about BE records

diggerbez

diggerbez

Well-Known Member
Joined
31 March 2008
Messages
8,053
Visit site
charlimouse's post got me thinking and having a nosey at BE records of people i know. what i don't understand is when people who have a horse that is consistently crap and yet they still pay money to event it affiliated??

now i'm not saying for one minute that my horses are perfect and i've never had a fault but if i was going to pay £230 to register me and horse and upwards of £70 an event i would want them to be fairly consistent- so an average dressage, no more than a couple down SJ and usually clear XC- as a bare minimum. if i was finding that at every event i had a cricket score sjing then i would have lessons and go unafil til it was sorted. ditto if i had 2 stops every time out XC. what i have noticed about the people i know as well is that having a cricket score sj and lots of stops XC is clearly an indication that you should move up from BE90 to BE100--- ????? why? i don't understand how it does anyone's confidence any good to perservere when clearly there is a problem that needs resolving? now i know there are always those stops which are rider error/silly etc- but what i am on about is records which span 2 or 3 seasons with lots of stops and elims on them. what is the point in paying £70 to get elim when you can pay £40 to get elim unafil?
ETS i'm primarily thinking BE90s and BE100s here- i know its a LOT more difficult to jump DC when you get higher up the levels

i had a season with my grey horse where he wasn't consistent- did 3 events where he stopped XC and a couple where he stopped SJ too and i sold him - looks like a lot of people who i know would have kept him and he'd be doing novice now?! :p
 
Last edited:
I don't get it either I wasted plenty of £££s with one horse last year we had a disaster SJing at Northallerton and despite lessons in between it led to another at Hexham (ground, foot abscess, horrendous riding etc all contributed here) so we went for dressage at Hutton but decided to call it a day and just work away at home until it was sorted and if needs be sell her as a first horse. But looking back it was never going to succeed that season as we were very unprepared despite a good season before - the benefit of hindsight ;)! Though why people keep gong and entering before they have solved the problem is beyond me surely it is just demoralising and definitely not fun!

Admittedly I have taken a pony eventing who could not do dressage - we got 50 something every time out but we also went double clear every time and I really enjoyed it. I also have some stupid mistakes on mine and my horse's records but they are just that. So I am definitely not saying my ponies or record are perfect either!!
 
Last edited:
Personally I don't understand as it's such a huge amount of money. However, if both the horse and rider enjoy it and are on the whole fairly safe then I can't see a problem. It's their money after all!
 
One side of the coin, they have the money, they enjoy it.

Other far more cynical side;

they are able to say 'they event'..... sounds good....
they think it will 'come right'
their trainer earns alot of money from them in lessons and persuades them to keep going (have seen this happen)
just too stubborn to give it up as a bad job

ok I am not in a good mood this morning so may sound a bit harsh!
 
I don't really see the reasoning for doing something like that with ANY kind of competition. ;) If you're competing to get mileage and work out problems in competition even if you're not competitive, or if you genuinely enjoy the competing but your horse won't ever be really competitive for reasons you can't change, fab. But if you're having the same serious problems every time out and not fixing those problems at home (I don't care how expensive lessons are, surely they're less expensive than wasting the money getting eliminated) then what's the point?

Also, with all the fuss about safety, surely someone who is regularly getting eliminated/falling off etc. is in more danger? Everyone is making such a fuss about people taking personal responsibility for keeping themselves safe, but no one seems to be able to say "Hey, maybe take a step back before you break your neck."

People do have bad runs of luck or periods where they're working stuff out, and it doesn't take much to make it go wrong at higher levels, but yes, at the bottom end, surely the expectation is at least to finish?

That said, you should all be grateful - those people are paying into the pot and aren't ever in danger of taking a prize, so more for the rest of you. ;)
 
Often a record can look very bad due to silly mishaps. Our old pony was going consistently clear at 1/1.10m ODEs with decent dressage and coming in the top 3. Affiliated her, and her record is very poor which doesn't reflect well.

First time out- 6th after dressage, clear SJ, then a silly fall after a fence as pony ballooned and poor jockey got pinged out of the saddle which unnerved them and so at the next fence the riding was hesitant so pony did a dirty stop and jockey came off again.

Second time- it was hailing during her dressage, with strong winds and nearly horizontal rain. Pony was hugely unimpressed and threw her toys- incorporating some lovely, balanced broncing into the test. But double clear.

Third time- dressage went to pot due to nerves from the last time, but double clear. Got 14 too fast time penalties as they'd been doing PC Opens and hadn't thought to adjust their speed for BE100!

Fourth- pony slipped on take off in a related distance XC and only just managed to avoid a rotational due to her quick brain. A broke her CB so had to retire.

It's a poor record- but inbetween these outings she won ODEs and qualified for the PC Champs. It was just sheer bad luck on the other outings.
 
But that was just one season Lolo, not year after year.
I'm wondering what prompts people to affiliate in the first place. R has 3 new ones to event this year, has done the usual prep in all 3 disciplines and decided two are ready but the other one needs some U/A experience first. Rather than waste money up front, if and when he catches up she'll affiliate him.
I think lostmymarbles may have hit the nail on the head and I'm in quite a good mood :D
 
I know a couple of people who event at BE90, who's idea of a good run is a mid 40's dressage, 20+ SJ pens, and if they get round the xc without being eliminated then you would have thought they had won, the way they go on about it! I do wonder why they bother. They run about every other week during the season, but never improve. They then announce BE90 is too easy when they have yet to get a clear xc out of 20+ runs!
 
serial lurker here, just wanted to say that these threads aggravate me. my BE record is utterly appalling, e'd at two consecutive events despite dropping down a level and having been in the top three at the unaff events i had done up to that point, reason: bad back caused by a slip, so entirely out of my control. yes it looks bad and i was devestated, still am in fact, but at the end of the day i dont really see how it impacts on anyone else's life and if it does i feel sorry for you tbh. i guess what im trying to say is i dont understand why certain people have to be so unecessarily judgemental. seems to me like its always the ones who are the most insecure about their own abilities who are first in line to tear apart anyone else. just chillax ffs and stop worrying about what others around you are doing, you might find the journey more enjoyable that way.
 
My record for 2010 is pretty crap.

2009 was better.. completed all events bar 3 because of a broken wrist and a stubborn pony ;)

In 2010 i did 5 events and only completed 1 - and this was with 2 stops XC. Now, i know that looks appauling and tbh, depresses me to look at it but at the end of the day, what happens happens and i know the one E on my record and the numerous R's were for all the right reasons and - to me - that's what matters.
 
I atually have a lot of sympathy with anomaly on this. I think it is far too easy to be judgmental without knowing all the facts. I suspect there are very few, if any, BE competitors who set off to an event expecting to be E, fall off, whatever - we all travel in a state of hopeful anticipation! Whatever materialises may be very different from what we hoped for, and some people may be slower than others at reading the writing on the wall, but still...

I have a long and varied record on a variety of horses, but have certainly gone through the odd dodgy looking period: Turbo went from first event to 1* in one season then up to Int clear by May the next - then from July that year to March the next failed to complete a XC - they all say either R or E (OT) . It took that long and much heartache to accept he really had given up XC :( Every event I went during that period, with the exception of one, I hoped and believed we had fixed the problem - through a variety of means (perseverance and success xc schooling, change of jockey, dropping down a level, winter hunting - you name it!). History shows that I was wrong, of course, but I didn't know that at the time... I would therefore counsel everyone to be slow to sit in judgement ;)
 
I have a dreadful BE record. It does not reflect how much blood, sweat and tears went into those 5 years of a dreadful BE record!
First horse was a jumping machine but completely refused to play ball in the dressage. Bought another one and probably started it sooner than it should have hence hit or miss. I was just desperate to event. Record gets better but then goes downhill again and horse is diagnosed with spavins. Was lucky to loan a horse who was incredibly talented but very tricky and we had some huge blips as he pulled himself up xc twice and my nerves let me down sjing which he then took advantage of. Have I learnt a huge amount yes! My riding is 20x what it was in 2006 and the new horse will have the benefit of everything I have learnt. I am hugely competitive but you have to start somewhere and you only improve from making mistakes.
 
you really only have to worry alot, about BE records if you want to sell the horse at some point for profit or whatever, people really go by every single detail on it, i had someone musing for an hour on the phone when looking at my eventer as at one event i had managed to get a bit lost on course(longleat, dont know why, but each time i landed after a fence i couldnt get my barings), and that i had 2 poles down there, when in actual fact as i was about to go in the heavens opened and the rain came down like ive never seen, i kicked on but due to weather conditions just couldnt keep from slipping and sliding (lost 2 studs too)!! and ended up with 7 time faults but clear!!! If you just love eventing and the atmostphere and want to know what courses to expect and that it will be run to guidlines then why not spend your money how you like!!!!
 
Ditto anomaly, tabledancer and LEC ...

If you take the time to speak to people whose records may not look wonderful you will find there is a usually a 'story' to go with it and things are never quite as straight forward as they seem.

Going unaff seems a simple solution - TBH its potentially a no brainer for most of us (competitive or not). Sadly for some of us there are few unaff choices, of those that run you have no idea as to standard of course - how many have been to an unaff event where jumps are trappy, go from tiny to enormous etc - its difficult to plan a season of unaff unlike BE where the calendar is out and plans can be made.

If I and others choose to spend our money on BE and make 'sacrifices' elsewhere, surely that is a choice we should be able to make without critiscism. Being first is fantastic but the reality is that position is only available for one person - perhaps we should just decide who that person is to be each event and the rest of us stay at home.

Whilst it is something I may aspire to I will also take my pleasure in a fence well jumped, an event completed or whatever. My day is not ruined by not being placed.
 
TBH, as a SJer, I often wonder why anyone continues BE if they can't get round an intro SJ course clear fairly consistently - for the expense its just crazy!

I have a very short BE record (day tickets) and at my last intro I had a fence down, I could have cried I was that annoyed with myself! :D
 
anomaly said:
serial lurker here, just wanted to say that these threads aggravate me. my BE record is utterly appalling, e'd at two consecutive events despite dropping down a level and having been in the top three at the unaff events i had done up to that point, reason: bad back caused by a slip, so entirely out of my control. yes it looks bad and i was devestated, still am in fact, but at the end of the day i dont really see how it impacts on anyone else's life and if it does i feel sorry for you tbh. i guess what im trying to say is i dont understand why certain people have to be so unecessarily judgemental. seems to me like its always the ones who are the most insecure about their own abilities who are first in line to tear apart anyone else. just chillax ffs and stop worrying about what others around you are doing, you might find the journey more enjoyable that way.
Click to expand...

I totally agree, it's no-one else's business. the trouble is with the BE records is you don't really know what has really been happening. We were selling a 6 yrold last year and he had some time penalties XC . We had people saying 'oh he can't make the time etc', where in reality he'd been taken steady to educate him.
 
Well my BE record is completely and utterly rubbish. Will I continue to BE? Yes, because there is a reason behind each E- well apart from one!

Brightling International- I lost my whip after jumping a fence, I compeltely lost concentration and we crashed into the next element. So I asked the photographer in the ring to pick it up for me as the arena party were re-building the fence I demolished. Looking back now I shouldn't have done it but I was eliminated and not allowed to continue onto the cross country. (Turns out the rule is the dependant on the judge- down to them to make a decision).

I had a tough time at Munstead due to T being difficult in the showjumping (20 pens)

Firle Place- 40 cross country penalties. I was riding with a broken arm (we didn't realise it was broken at the time). I was experiencing pain so circled twice, at two different points. Just to regain control as I was struggling with my arm in the state it was. The officials counted them as me approaching T to the fence.

Pulborough- R- Again I had to pull up due to pain in my arm. I was gutted!

So our BE100 record is rubbish but the aim is to set the record straight this year. As we are regularly placed at PC level 4 and have been placed in the two placings at BE90. It's just me adapting to moving up- not helped by a broken bone!

I can see why people are so judgemental. But I carry on because I love it. :)
 
anomaly said:
serial lurker here, just wanted to say that these threads aggravate me. my BE record is utterly appalling, e'd at two consecutive events despite dropping down a level and having been in the top three at the unaff events i had done up to that point, reason: bad back caused by a slip, so entirely out of my control. yes it looks bad and i was devestated, still am in fact, but at the end of the day i dont really see how it impacts on anyone else's life and if it does i feel sorry for you tbh. i guess what im trying to say is i dont understand why certain people have to be so unecessarily judgemental. seems to me like its always the ones who are the most insecure about their own abilities who are first in line to tear apart anyone else. just chillax ffs and stop worrying about what others around you are doing, you might find the journey more enjoyable that way.
Click to expand...

Me too. My record is deffo nothing to shout about! But me and my horse had fun, I have gained a lot of experience, my horse has finally done something. Also there are hardly any unaffilated events around, even if they are the XC courses are built by farmers wishing to kill horse riders :D and sadly are often badly organised. BE xc course, especially at the lower levels are often a nicer ride.

An attitude that you shouldn't be seen dead at BE event unless you are very rich, have a flashy horse and never make mistake, and arefantastic at everything pees me off.
Its my horse, he's never going to be for sale. My money and time and I will do what I like. We aren't a total liability!
 
dominobrown said:
Me too. My record is deffo nothing to shout about! But me and my horse had fun, I have gained a lot of experience, my horse has finally done something. Also there are hardly any unaffilated events around, even if they are the XC courses are built by farmers wishing to kill horse riders :D and sadly are often badly organised. BE xc course, especially at the lower levels are often a nicer ride.

An attitude that you shouldn't be seen dead at BE event unless you are very rich, have a flashy horse and never make mistake, and arefantastic at everything pees me off.
Its my horse, he's never going to be for sale. My money and time and I will do what I like. We aren't a total liability!
Click to expand...

TBF DB i never suggested that to go BE you have to be rich, have a flashy horse and never make a mistake. i am certainly none of the above and i make more mistakes than most people. i'm not criticising people as such i was genuinely just wondering why/how people keep going...when i had crap with my grey i couldn't do it to myself but can sympathise why people like TD keep plugging away thinking a problem is resolved- with they grey he had had a few top 4 placings at intro so moved up to PN where he had a few good runs and then the wheels came off. i persevered for a season and had a mixture of great results or stops XC or SJ- was so frustrating and heart breaking that i couldn't keep entering and putting myself through that... so i do really commend people who can keep positive (i'm very much a negative person about myself and it takes very little to knock my confidence)

also- i did say in my OP that there are always the results that are explainable- as a few people have talked about here- yes you will learn from mistakes and sometimes you have to keep going to keep improving. i just personally couldn't justify paying the money to go BE over a number of seasons if i thought there was a high chance of things going tits up - so those of you who have got all stressy, get off your high horses, i wasn't having a dig at you/ criticising you- if you are happy and horse is happy great- i was simply trying to understand how people think as its different to how i think and i was simply just interested. God this place is so frustrating, can't raise an interesting topic of conversation without people getting defensive/stroppy and sending rude PMs! :confused:
 
anomaly said:
serial lurker here, just wanted to say that these threads aggravate me. my BE record is utterly appalling, e'd at two consecutive events despite dropping down a level and having been in the top three at the unaff events i had done up to that point, reason: bad back caused by a slip, so entirely out of my control. yes it looks bad and i was devestated, still am in fact, but at the end of the day i dont really see how it impacts on anyone else's life and if it does i feel sorry for you tbh. i guess what im trying to say is i dont understand why certain people have to be so unecessarily judgemental. seems to me like its always the ones who are the most insecure about their own abilities who are first in line to tear apart anyone else. just chillax ffs and stop worrying about what others around you are doing, you might find the journey more enjoyable that way.
Click to expand...

i am sorry to have aggravated you. 2 x Es is not what i would call a shocking BE records. 10+ Es a season (on same horse) over 3/4 seasons is what i would consider shocking.
 
have to say ive noticed this too lol

i dont event - its not my thing - but i do look at some peoples record.... for like several years one record i know of(person) who competed to novice then dropped back down - horse was totally inconsistent for several years. (horse has never won and come in the top 5 and im talking 5+ years)!

mabey its just enjoyment but i woldnt be paying that kind of money for a crap record.
 
Sorry if my post came across stroppy, it wasn't supposed to. I was just trying to justify my record (to myself if nobody else ;)). Very interesting post. Are there really people that get 10 E's in one season? If so I can see why you raised the question. I'd seriously have to reconsider eventing if those were the results I was getting. There is so much moral battering you can take! :o
 
I agree, I personally, wouldn't keep going with the horse or with BE if we were crap at every BE event. it is just too expensive.

I think what DB was getting at is the number of people who seem to carry on eventing when all phases are bad. Not just a crap dressage, or a couple down SJ but consistently bad for all phases . I personally would give up for a bit if every event I entered ended up with me R or E'd as I would probably identify that I have something I need to work on and maybe my £70 entry fee would be better spent on lessons! And no, I'm not getting at those who have unfortunate things like broken arms/dropped whips/horse going lame/injured etc etc as we all have these happen to us. :D

It really seemed like a harmeless thread that has turned a bit cross- at the moment, I am questioning whether I'm going to continue to take part in the forum as I for one would hate to receive rude PM's for my opinion.
 
caterpillar said:
You've received stroppy PM's for a harmless thread?
Some people really need to calm down and chill out!
Click to expand...

DB you got pm's about this thread!!! How bloooomin ridiculas is that!!!!! You cant have a good debate without someone sending unhappy PM'S!!!!! unreal, and how very sad this person must be!!!!!!!!grrrrrrr!!!!
 
Eventer96 said:
Sorry if my post came across stroppy, it wasn't supposed to. I was just trying to justify my record (to myself if nobody else ;)). Very interesting post. Are there really people that get 10 E's in one season? If so I can see why you raised the question. I'd seriously have to reconsider eventing if those were the results I was getting. There is so much moral battering you can take! :o
Click to expand...

haha no i didn't think you were being stroppy E96 :)

thanks AF- thats exactly what i was getting at :)
 
I have to say I think this is a very interesting post - although I have to say DiggerBez it is disgraceful if you've received rude PM's - you've raised a valid opinion/thought and even a reader doesn't agree with you there is no need to be horrible to you privately or otherwise.
Anyway I digress - I have to say I do agree in part with Anomaly, Tabledancer and Lec - I event to have FUN and couldn't be arsed with what other people think one bit. As a complete amateur with one horse of course I go out with the thought I will win this time - haven't done to date, but if I thought otherwise what's the point? I also affiliate as it allows me to compete against professionals - I love watching them warm up, walk the courses, their grooms get their horses ready etc etc - you just don't get this at unaff and it's a real treat to learn from them.
However, I have to say I have 'spied' on past 'friend's' BE results before and had a sneaky smile when it hasn't gone so well for them - is that really so bad? And to be honest, I know damn well they do the same to me. Also, I would have to say if you were looking to sell the horse in the future, then yes, your competition record will make a difference.
 
I havent sent any PM's as I am not that bothered!
Maybe the intial tone came over a little rude.
I do understand that if someone got 10 E's then that is a waste of money!
I also don't understand when people get rubbish BE90 results then move up to PN, its a bit mad!

But reasons for going BE is that there is literally a handful of unaffilated events, and most with PC which I am too old for.

Sorry if I am a bit blunt! :o
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top