a musing about BE records

louisesb said:
I have to say I think this is a very interesting post - although I have to say DiggerBez it is disgraceful if you've received rude PM's - you've raised a valid opinion/thought and even a reader doesn't agree with you there is no need to be horrible to you privately or otherwise.
Anyway I digress - I have to say I do agree in part with Anomaly, Tabledancer and Lec - I event to have FUN and couldn't be arsed with what other people think one bit. As a complete amateur with one horse of course I go out with the thought I will win this time - haven't done to date, but if I thought otherwise what's the point? I also affiliate as it allows me to compete against professionals - I love watching them warm up, walk the courses, their grooms get their horses ready etc etc - you just don't get this at unaff and it's a real treat to learn from them.
However, I have to say I have 'spied' on past 'friend's' BE results before and had a sneaky smile when it hasn't gone so well for them - is that really so bad? And to be honest, I know damn well they do the same to me. Also, I would have to say if you were looking to sell the horse in the future, then yes, your competition record will make a difference.
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oh i totally understand the idea of having fun- thats why i do it! and have never managed a win either (so so close once, but so far :rolleyes:)... so i really understand going even if you know that getting placed is unlikely (which mathmatically it clearly is- 50 in a section and only place to 10th). heavens, i think we'd all have to quit if we only wanted to win every time out- its the people who consistently get E'd (as above like 10x a season over several years) that i wonder about... it must be soul destroying, surely? :confused:
 
dominobrown said:
I havent sent any PM's as I am not that bothered!
Maybe the intial tone came over a little rude.
I do understand that if someone got 10 E's then that is a waste of money!
I also don't understand when people get rubbish BE90 results then move up to PN, its a bit mad!

But reasons for going BE is that there is literally a handful of unaffilated events, and most with PC which I am too old for.

Sorry if I am a bit blunt! :o
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i don't undersstand where i was rude though?? :confused:
 
Why oh why do people put so much store by BE records? :mad: It drives me up the wall how anyone can, and will, make assumptions about a horse based on its BE record without even speaking to the rider/owner. They're not machines, s**t happens, and sometimes the only way to find out what you've got is to put yourself out there ie. take a straight route/try a different bit/go up a level, thereby finding out whether all the hours of preparation, training and hard graft will reap rewards.

Disclaimer: obviously this assumes you have a fairly good idea of whether your horse is ready for it, but that's a whole different subject and one which is often brought up on here...(which suggests to me there are a lot of people who could do with a good adviser/trainer.;))

I do see your point, diggerbez, but if those people are eternal optimists with more money than sense then leave them to it. :D
 
Baydale said:
Why oh why do people put so much store by BE records? :mad: It drives me up the wall how anyone can, and will, make assumptions about a horse based on its BE record without even speaking to the rider/owner. They're not machines, s**t happens, and sometimes the only way to find out what you've got is to put yourself out there ie. take a straight route/try a different bit/go up a level, thereby finding out whether all the hours of preparation, training and hard graft will reap rewards.

Disclaimer: obviously this assumes you have a fairly good idea of whether your horse is ready for it, but that's a whole different subject and one which is often brought up on here...(which suggests to me there are a lot of people who could do with a good adviser/trainer.;))

I do see your point, diggerbez, but if those people are eternal optimists with more money than sense then leave them to it. :D
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haha, i just wish i could have some of that optimism- i am one of life's negative thinkers...(would also like some of their money as well please ;):D)
 
Sorry, couldn't think of the word. Not rude exactly but more 'Why do people bother to event if they are rubbish? Only good people should event'. Obviously you didn't mean it like that and didn't want to offend anyone, but that is probably why some people took it the wrong way.

Again I agree with you if people who get continuously rubbish results year after continue to plug away, but they are not doing anyone any harm.
:)
 
dominobrown said:
Sorry, couldn't think of the word. Not rude exactly but more 'Why do people bother to event if they are rubbish? Only good people should event'. Obviously you didn't mean it like that and didn't want to offend anyone, but that is probably why some people took it the wrong way.

Again I agree with you if people who get continuously rubbish results year after continue to plug away, but they are not doing anyone any harm.
:)
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well i am sorry if people thought that i meant that but i did write my post quite carefully so that it didn't come across like that. i do think sometimes that people don't read a post properly and then get all stroppy when really if they read something properly they would realise that it said something different to what they thought?!
 
diggerbez said:
that i wonder about... it must be soul destroying, surely? :confused:
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That's it for me, I would just be so demoralised by the whole thing but perhaps I just over think things and am too pessimistic! But then at the end of the day I think my fantastic result is probably someone else's sh** result who looks at my record and wonders why I bother!
 
I think the people on here that got tetchy are the people that probably thought you were talking about them ;)

But in fact, most people who have posted don't have the kind of records you've posted about - I also don't know why people would bother if they had 10 E's season after season. If people are truly honest, getting E'd isn't fun - if you have more than say 3 seasons with 10 E's off the same horse - wouldn't you think of a change of career?

I don't win or get placed everytime out SJ (far from it :rolleyes: ) but if I got eliminated at 2-3 events consecutively I would be staying at home for a bit, or getting a rider for the next comp.

As for rude PMs - really?! I never get why people bother doing that :)
 
I dont really worry much about my BE record there is more to life!! Last year I evented before I should have done ie my dressage marks were a bit dodgy... but we had fun!

Also a record can look dodgy due to injury etc and it can take a while/a competition to realise what is wrong.

Agree eventing is very expensive to do unless you are going to do well.. but on the other hand sometimes you want to get out there!
 
I've got mixed feelings about this.

I've got a pretty shite record, we've never managed to pull it off BE for various reasons (you can check out my previous threads if you are interested). I've sucessfully completed all the unaff stuff round here and my horse goes well in lessons. It can be difficult to predict what will happen at an aff event because it's almost impossible to replicate that atmosphere IME horses can be going great guns upto the event and it all goes to pot on the day. You can't train for that.

I do get what you are saying though and if you are constantly getting E'd at every event all season it seems odd to keep banging your head against a brick wall and people certainly shouldn't be upgrading if that's the case.

I also think the entry system encourages this a bit because you have to enter so early and can't get money back people think they may as well have a go anyway because they've paid for it.

I think it's an individual riders choice at the end of the day, so if they are happy to keep investing the time and the money despite it not going well that's upto them. No skin off my nose. For myself after a rubbish time at the couple of events I tried last year I stopped took stock and made a plan. We've been working hard over the winter, I've addressed the physical/vet issues that were contributing and I'm going to give it another go. However despite both of us being more than capable of what I'm trying to achieve I have to accept that Bipolar Pony may never be able to handle a BE event and if we have a repeat of last year I won't be doing it anymore.
 
I for one, totally agreed with your post, and can easily see what you meant!

A lot of people would say it was pointless eventing at lower levels full stop. I'm not one of them, each to their own, but when I first started there weren't any intros or training classes, nor pre novice if I remember correctly. Thats why it was considered so brave, and that you had a good horse if you could go affiliated... However many of us do stick at lower levels - myself included! I've had a couple of good seasons, with a few lower level placings, and consistant clears XC, then I got injured, and wouldn't have been able to do much, so didn't register last year - just did local stuff.

I've a couple of friends who registered their horses and spent last season getting eliminated at EVERY event they went to - often in the SJ, let alone the XC, yet to hear them at RC, "I do affiliated..." you'd think that they were the best things to hit BE - to me its a huge amount of money if you're consistantly not getting round.

On the flip side, I would do BE events with my 6yr old before I did unaffiliated events - I know that they will be well built with good ground, whereas local unaffiliated XCs are likely to be boggy, and slippy around me...
 
i'm another with a fairly ropey BE record, certainly my prep last season (on a horse that had never evented), consisted of the odd lesson, roughly 2 XC schooling sessions, some hunting & a couple of rounds of SJ, and one EVER dressage test!

I went BE with that little prep because i knew i could turn up, everything would be well organised, well presented, the height would be consistent (generally) the fences would ride well & to be honest, i could just school round, having fun, because trying to juggle 2 kids & having a business to run, i want to be able to pay for the privlidge of lovely events, helpful people etc, etc, all of the things that where i live, you just do not get at UAfill, so i shall carry on juggling it all, and having a fairly ropey BE record!

& believe me, BE records are NOTHING when compared to the book..... yes book, printed at the end of a P2P season, listing every horse & someone else's opinion of your horse, how you rode it, how much better/worse you are than the person who previously rode it! and they do not hold back.... it makes for the most hysterical reading, and makes the BE records seem V tame!
 
racingdemon said:
i'm another with a fairly ropey BE record, certainly my prep last season (on a horse that had never evented), consisted of the odd lesson, roughly 2 XC schooling sessions, some hunting & a couple of rounds of SJ, and one EVER dressage test!

I went BE with that little prep because i knew i could turn up, everything would be well organised, well presented, the height would be consistent (generally) the fences would ride well & to be honest, i could just school round, having fun, because trying to juggle 2 kids & having a business to run, i want to be able to pay for the privilege of lovely events, helpful people etc, etc, all of the things that where i live, you just do not get at UAfill, so i shall carry on juggling it all, and having a fairly ropey BE record!

& believe me, BE records are NOTHING when compared to the book..... yes book, printed at the end of a P2P season, listing every horse & someone else's opinion of your horse, how you rode it, how much better/worse you are than the person who previously rode it! and they do not hold back.... it makes for the most hysterical reading, and makes the BE records seem V tame!
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those would be the dulcet words of Mackenzie and Selby then!!
 
racingdemon said:
Oh yes.....you have to love them!!

i was quite proud when my 1st P2Per was given a double squiggle and described as not suitable for a novice girl,
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My favourite was on one of my boss's horses which said something like:
'horse fairly consistent which is just as well as his geriatric jockey is virtually blind and nearly failed to recognise him in the paddock on his last outing' :D

A prolific local winner was described something like 'has carted every jockey in the area and jumps abysmally. Somehow manages to find the finish line despite these obvious flaws'.
 
Gamebird said:
My favourite was on one of my boss's horses which said something like:
'horse fairly consistent which is just as well as his geriatric jockey is virtually blind and nearly failed to recognise him in the paddock on his last outing' :D

A prolific local winner was described something like 'has carted every jockey in the area and jumps abysmally. Somehow manages to find the finish line despite these obvious flaws'.
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One of the proper amateur riders in my area was described as 'using his horse as a trampoline'!!!
 
diggerbez said:
i am sorry to have aggravated you. 2 x Es is not what i would call a shocking BE records. 10+ Es a season (on same horse) over 3/4 seasons is what i would consider shocking.
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sorry if my post came across badly, and if it inspired some loser to send nasty messages :( it wasn't my intention for things to get heated, i guess i was just trying to explain (badly) that theres often a flip side and that i suppose i can sympathise with the slightly blind optimism people sometimes harbour when it comes to horses... its heartbreaking to accept that the horse you love so much isn't going to do the job you want it to and maybe thats where these strings of bad results stem? just a thought.
 
Good post - interesting! I suppose it comes down to what each person enjoys. I think we all have an expectation of ourselves. If we drop below it, we're disappointed, if we exceed it, we're thrilled. I think the important point is what level does the expectation lie at?

Plenty of people would be mildly suicidal if they had my BE results. Others would be delighted to have achieved them. It totally depends on where you think you should be, and where you aim to be. If you are achieving your expectations then you are probably pretty happy. That said, I find it hard to believe that people would be pleased to be E consistently - but they probably hope for better each time out.

We could probably all do better (unless we're Toddy) so it's hard to say that it's worth eventing if you consistently get x result but not if you consistently get y result.
 
I have to agree with DB on this one, I dont understand why you would spend season after season slogging away - the disappointment must be awful.

I am another with an awful BE record BUT I only did a few events before giving up and going back to UA before giving up copmpletely ;) Turned out poor pony had navicular which was why he was refusing the SJ - he could manage on a surface (which was what we trained on with no issues) so trainer and I thought he was just being a git in competition and it made me so despondant - I burst into tears after our last event at ALW where he refused as I had really thought we'd nailed it :(
 
Had to laugh at OP's 2nd post. the old expression of "me thinks he/she doth protest too much" comes to mind. I too fail to see why people continue to get obliterated year on year, but it is their choice, their huge amounts of money, and if it wasn't for those who continue to event that probably shouldn't, BE would struggle to continue financially. BE has encouraged people to try eventing, in the past the lowest class available started at Novice altho I think that was near to where pre novice is today, I stand corrected if wrong.

My biggest gripe is how the ground gets messed up particularly in the SJ phase by combinations who refuse all over the place, ruining the ground for the higher classes to come.

Time and again you see, especially when fence judging (I compete as well), people who look totally terrified about going x country....why do it then? and the poor bloody horses who are expected to be brave for the riders and then get hell if they decide it ain't for them either. Have in the past actually asked competitors when stewarding in the x country warm up, if they really want to go. If you are frightened at competing at Intro or BE 80 I would question the actual safety for the rider AND the horse.
 
silu said:
Had to laugh at OP's 2nd post. the old expression of "me thinks he/she doth protest too much" comes to mind. I too fail to see why people continue to get obliterated year on year, but it is their choice, their huge amounts of money, and if it wasn't for those who continue to event that probably shouldn't, BE would struggle to continue financially. BE has encouraged people to try eventing, in the past the lowest class available started at Novice altho I think that was near to where pre novice is today, I stand corrected if wrong.

My biggest gripe is how the ground gets messed up particularly in the SJ phase by combinations who refuse all over the place, ruining the ground for the higher classes to come.

Time and again you see, especially when fence judging (I compete as well), people who look totally terrified about going x country....why do it then? and the poor bloody horses who are expected to be brave for the riders and then get hell if they decide it ain't for them either. Have in the past actually asked competitors when stewarding in the x country warm up, if they really want to go. If you are frightened at competing at Intro or BE 80 I would question the actual safety for the rider AND the horse.
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Oh dear, please don't ask me if I am sure! When I went up to N last year, I felt so terrified in the warm up (more SJ than XC) that I couldn't actually speak.
 
Interesting thread. My BE record (with my only horse I have ever evented) isn't actually too bad - but then I have only done about half a dozen events!! First two at Intro, respectable dressage, one down SJ, one stop XC, then third one we went clear XC and would have been 5th if hadn't had the pole SJ, then I broke my leg and came back out a year later at BE80 and been placed (6th then 4th) both times with DC. However I know he will struggle to be competitive at Intro and would certainly not have the scope to do PN (he is 14.2) so I don't affiliate him properly, plan is to do 80s on tickets and unafill 90s at venues like ALW and Tweseldown.

I must admit I do think there are some (not many, but some) people who just DON'T do the homework. Before my youngster goes to an ODE I want him to go nicely (preferably cxlear) round at least one hunter trial course and preferably be scoring 60%+ unaffil dressage. So he may not event first half of this season, god, if it all goes to pot when he goes XC schooling again, he may not event this year! I'm fully prepared that he may have the odd babyish look at fences, but will start him at 80 so he can hopefully pop from a trot if needs be (well actually he can pop 90 from a trot if I'm honest, it just scares me!)

But having said all that some horses will never make the top ten but still have a lot to give - friend of mine events up to PN and goes DC, every time. They do a frankly rubbish test so are rarely in the running but have a lot of fun, and can't see anything wrong with that.

If I am honest you see this at every level tho IMO. You see the same people out every weekend at local unaffil in all disciplines doing W/T dressage, 2'3 SJ, getting eliminated every time etc and I do wonder why they don't spend some of their entry fees on lessons, but guess its each to their own.
 
I dont see why it matters either way.....If they affiliate or not. It's their money, their choice. Personally, I am choosing to affiliate BE because I want a well thought out, structured, and regulated day out. I don`t want to do unnafiliated at a yard that just happens to have some xcountry jumps, that the YO`s husband built and put where he feels fit. (ok ....maybe a bit extreme but you get my point).
 
sprite1978 said:
I dont see why it matters either way.....If they affiliate or not. It's their money, their choice. Personally, I am choosing to affiliate BE because I want a well thought out, structured, and regulated day out. I don`t want to do unnafiliated at a yard that just happens to have some xcountry jumps, that the YO`s husband built and put where he feels fit. (ok ....maybe a bit extreme but you get my point).
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for the 100th time...it doesn't matter...i just wondered why people would put themselves through continued disappointment... thats all. wish i hadn't asked now.
 
diggerbez said:
for the 100th time...it doesn't matter...i just wondered why people would put themselves through continued disappointment... thats all. wish i hadn't asked now.
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How do you know these people are dissapointed?... Its possible to compete without being competative. They might just enjoy the day out.
 
sprite1978 said:
How do you know these people are dissapointed?... Its possible to compete without being competative. They might just enjoy the day out.
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i suppose hadn't thought of it that way....i would find it hard to enjoy myself if i got eliminated every time out but thats just me i guess....
 
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