A new low in dressage sport ... tongue amputation

Cortez said:
Despicable. It's not the first time I've heard of this being done either. No wonder the poor thing was lolling it's tongue, look at the restriction in the parotid gland; I'm surprised it could breathe. There needs to be a real root and branch of the welfare standards - and absolute compliance - or else I feel there will be a reckoning a-coming.
Click to expand...

And she came second in that specific competition with 74%... so the judges clearly didn't mind it couldn't breathe.

Albeit, having just looked at her instagram, it seems she's grown up since then as I can't see any overly tight flashes like in that photo (although they are all in them), or quite so distressed looking horses.. They're all still overbent on the whole however.
 
Goldenstar said:
I still can’t get my head round a vet doing that.
Was it in the UK?
Click to expand...
Veterinarian Palle Brink carried out the operation. According to Ridehesten this happened at an equine clinic in Malmö, Sweden. Brink argued that the front section of the tongue was removed because of "infection and dead tissue in the tongue".

Tbf, judging by the intolerable pressure being put on the pony’s mouth in the ridden pics the tongue may well have been irreparably damaged by poor riding before she examined the pony.
 
Goldenstar said:
you know if you where writing welfare legislation you would never think of making cutting off a horses tongue because he sticks it out illegal because no reasonable person would ever consider it it’s incredible.
Click to expand...

I worked for a very well known dressage rider in the US nearly 40 years ago who had this done to more than one horse, on the quiet. I didn't work for him for very long; that wasn't the only awful thing being done at that establishment.*






*My first job on day one was to wipe the blood off the walls............
 
Cortez said:
I worked for a very well known dressage rider in the US nearly 40 years ago who had this done to more than one horse, on the quiet. I didn't work for him for very long; that wasn't the only awful thing being done at that establishment.*






*My first job on day one was to wipe the blood off the walls............
Click to expand...
What happens to people to make this acceptable inside their heads
 
This amputation was carried out fairly recently ie after March 2019 as that was when the photo in post #15 was taken.

This is the ponies FEI record , Camilla Juul Moeller stopped riding the pony in 2018 (from FEI records)

DateShowEventCompetitionObs. HeightAthletePositionScore
07/05/2023AalborgCDIPP FS - Pony Riders Freestyle to MusicSofie Aagaard Buur-Thomsen374.483
06/05/2023AalborgCDIPP Ind - Pony Individual CompetitionSofie Aagaard Buur-Thomsen569.910
05/05/2023AalborgCDIPP Team - Pony Team CompetitionSofie Aagaard Buur-Thomsen271.762
02/07/2021YpäjäCDIPP FS - Pony Riders Freestyle to MusicCharlotte Iwang Søndergård1467.955
01/07/2021YpäjäCDIPP Ind - Pony Individual CompetitionCharlotte Iwang Søndergård970.135
30/06/2021YpäjäCDIPP Team - Pony Team CompetitionCharlotte Iwang Søndergård1069.048
28/10/2018ExlooCDIPP FS - Pony Riders Freestyle to MusicCamilla Juul Moeller672.125
27/10/2018ExlooCDIPP Ind - Pony Individual CompetitionCamilla Juul Moeller768.604
25/10/2018ExlooCDIPP Team - Pony Team CompetitionCamilla Juul Moeller968.762
22/07/2018DiepenbeekCDIPP FS - Pony Riders Freestyle to MusicCamilla Juul Moeller371.892
21/07/2018DiepenbeekCDIPP Ind - Pony Individual CompetitionCamilla Juul Moeller268.694
20/07/2018DiepenbeekCDIPP Team - Pony Team CompetitionCamilla Juul Moeller567.952
25/05/2018UggerhalneCDIPP FS - Pony Riders Freestyle to MusicCamilla Juul Moeller1170.334
24/05/2018UggerhalneCDIPP Ind - Pony Individual CompetitionCamilla Juul Moeller969.234
23/05/2018UggerhalneCDIPP Team - Pony Team CompetitionCamilla Juul Moeller2464.333
12/05/2018KristiansandCDIPP FS - Pony Riders Freestyle to MusicCamilla Juul Moeller172.142
11/05/2018KristiansandCDIPP Ind - Pony Individual CompetitionCamilla Juul Moeller668.423
10/05/2018KristiansandCDIPP Team - Pony Team CompetitionCamilla Juul Moeller367.333
30/07/2014MalmöCDIPPonies Final FreestyleChristine Marie Senger769.900
29/07/2014MalmöCDIPPonies IndividualChristine Marie Senger866.992
28/07/2014MalmöCDIPPonies TeamChristine Marie Senger270.000
31/05/2014CompiègneCDIPP Ind - Pony Individual CompetitionChristine Marie Senger2966.423
30/05/2014CompiègneCDIPP Team - Pony Team CompetitionChristine Marie Senger2966.923
19/04/2014Stadl PauraCDIPFEI Pony Riders Freestyle testChristine Marie Senger1068.583
17/04/2014Stadl PauraCDIPFEI Pony Individual CompetitionChristine Marie Senger1466.667
16/04/2014Stadl PauraCDIPFEI Ponies Team CompetitionChristine Marie Senger1666.496
 
Poor pony. Poor child
I don't ever jump on dressage threads because I dont feel qualified to comment.
In this case absolutely anyone can see how wrong this is.
The horse world should be outing these people and banning them from competing for life, and any vet who carried out this mess should be banned from practicing for life.
 
Goldenstar said:
But if they can prove that the tongue was infected and necrotic it gets complicated doesn’t it .
I wonder if it was a yard vet as in employed by the yard full time or from an outside practise .
Click to expand...


Even worse, it's really only fair for the accusers to prove that it wasn't. I would expect it to be quite normal for vets to cut off injured/infected bits of horses without taking photos first, so that might be difficult.
.
 
AShetlandBitMeOnce said:
This is from google, I have cropped it so as not to post a child's face, even if it is a publicly available photo... but if this is how the poor thing is ridden, then I am not surprised it stuck it's tongue out. That pony has literally nowhere to go, it's head is in a vice, and look at how tight that flash is... and it's not an isolated photo either. Owners should be banned from keeping animals entirely imo.

View attachment 130393

ETA: I don't speak the language so not sure, but this is a riding club I assume from the title - I wouldn't personally be proud of any of these photos, and certainly wouldn't have them on my webpage. The only one not entirely offensive is the one in the drop.

Bedre sent end aldrig – Gråsten rideklub af 2004

grr4.dk grr4.dk
Click to expand...
Unutterably vile behaviour on the part of the adults responsible for the management of the pony and for their parenting/teaching the child.
 
If the tongue was injured, surely there are questions to be answered as to how that happens as well? I can imagine it would be difficult to find a vet to amputate a healthy tongue- but if the owners had already caused harm to the tongue through the way the pony was being ridden...

The whole thing just feels horrific, poor, poor pony.

I do think serious questions need to be asked about the owners who had it done, and also why that sort of riding/tack is rewarded in dressage. It feels mad to me that you can't compete BD/FEI dressage bitless because the horse isn't showing "true submission" but you can achieve that submission through flashes done up ridiculously tightly etc. I don't ride bitless, but I'd have thought *more* training would go into bitless dressage than strapping a horse's mouth shut.

I also agree about the social licence- we have to speak out about these things, or in the end they will come for all of us.
 
ycbm said:
Even worse, it's really only fair for the accusers to prove that it wasn't. I would expect it to be quite normal for vets to cut off injured/infected bits of horses without taking photos first, so that might be difficult.
.
Click to expand...
But in this case the pony was FEI registered and probably worth a lot of money, I would have thought a vet would want to protect themselves against accusations of wrong doing by taking pictures of the damaged/necrotic tongue pre and post surgery. I suspect there is more to this than has been published so far!
 
I don’t doubt there’s a lot of back story , however the picture of the poor pony is yuk yuk yuk tbh the tongue is only one of several horrible things in that picture .
No one for one moment would think that pony in that picture sees the tack coming and thinks oh good a trip to the indoor .
That children grow up thinking that’s horsemanship is just profoundly depressing .
I am sad and cross .
 
If this was done on a healthy tongue then it is absolutely reprehensible.
Tiddlypom said:
bf, judging by the intolerable pressure being put on the pony’s mouth in the ridden pics the tongue may well have been irreparably damaged by poor riding before she examined the pony.
Click to expand...
Very possible.
Wishfilly said:
If the tongue was injured, surely there are questions to be answered as to how that happens as well? I can imagine it would be difficult to find a vet to amputate a healthy tongue- but if the owners had already caused harm to the tongue through the way the pony was being ridden..
Click to expand...

My current pony nearly lost Part of his tongue.
He came in from the field bleeding from the mouth. Vet summoned, he had fractured a tooth and the bit that fractured off had cut very very deeply into his tongue.
As you can imagine its a rather difficult place to keep a wound clean and it got infected.
Thankfully heavy duty antibiotics saved my lads tongue.

I have absolutely no idea how he fractured a tooth or how long before he was found that it happened. (Other than it was some time after 8am and before 4pm).
 
conniegirl said:
If this was done on a healthy tongue then it is absolutely reprehensible.

Very possible.


My current pony nearly lost Part of his tongue.
He came in from the field bleeding from the mouth. Vet summoned, he had fractured a tooth and the bit that fractured off had cut very very deeply into his tongue.
As you can imagine its a rather difficult place to keep a wound clean and it got infected.
Thankfully heavy duty antibiotics saved my lads tongue.

I have absolutely no idea how he fractured a tooth or how long before he was found that it happened. (Other than it was some time after 8am and before 4pm).
Click to expand...
To be clear, I'm not criticising anyone who's been in this situation more generally, but it's equally interesting that you managed to save your horse's tongue, and I'm assuming he wasn't an FEI pony, who I would expect to have access to the very best vet treatment available!

I do understand these things happen, but combined with the pictures of the poor pony going around with a flash that tight and clearly sticking the tongue out due to discomfort, it's easy to assume that had something to do with the original injury.
 
So there are 3 possibilities:
1) they cut it off becuase the pony couldn't cope with the excessivley tight flash, and stuck his tongue out to try to get a little more comfortable
2) they cut it off because the excessively tight flash caused him to injure his tongue
3) they cut it off because he injured his tongue some other way

Sadly, I doubt #3 is the correct answer, but how on earth can it be proven???
 
Velcrobum said:
But in this case the pony was FEI registered and probably worth a lot of money, I would have thought a vet would want to protect themselves against accusations of wrong doing by taking pictures of the damaged/necrotic tongue pre and post surgery. I suspect there is more to this than has been published so far!
Click to expand...

Well quite. Nobody with much sense believes it was innocent but the guilt can't be proved unless taking pictures of bits you intend to cut off is required, and it's not.
.
 
Last edited:
Cragrat said:
So there are 3 possibilities:
1) they cut it off becuase the pony couldn't cope with the excessivley tight flash, and stuck his tongue out to try to get a little more comfortable
2) they cut it off because the excessively tight flash caused him to injure his tongue
3) they cut it off because he injured his tongue some other way

Sadly, I doubt #3 is the correct answer, but how on earth can it be proven???
Click to expand...
The flash will be that tight in an attempt to stop him from lolling the tongue. Ineffective, obvs., hence the surgical option.
 
It’s likely that the tight flash is an attempt to mange the problem
Here’s a way to manage the problem find the pony and easy job where it does not matter that it needs to stick it’s tongue out take off the flash leave him too it .
To be brutal people buy horses all the time that fail to achieve what they are intended to.
People suck it up and move on.
 
Poor pony. 🤢🤢🤢 the pictures the everything is just horrendous. How can that poor pony do anything but stick out his tongue when his poor little face is bulging like that out of the bridle. But what I cannot fathom is the few times I’ve ridden a horse that working seriously correctly, in balance, confident and happy in themselves…. It’s breath taking, inspirational, every time my boy takes even half a step to feeling like that my heart skips a beat and birds sing, and I’m doing little bits out hacking because I don’t think he’s there yet to school to hard… how, just how on earth does anyone in their right mind looks at these pictures or rides that “feel” and thinks “this feels good and right and that horse looks like they’re enjoying themselves and I really love horses.” All adults involved should be ashamed of themselves and have trouble sleeping for a long time in my opinion. Such as shame that a young rider to have been taught this way. I remember growing up around old fashioned harsh ways and being so upset because I just loved horses and wanted them to love it too. ☹️

Apologies that turned into an awful rant.
 
Wishfilly said:
but it's equally interesting that you managed to save your horse's tongue, and I'm assuming he wasn't an FEI pony, who I would expect to have access to the very best vet treatment available!
Click to expand...
Not FEI no, but he is an Ex RIHS winner and HOYS pony who was very well insured at the time.
We had access to a major equine hospital throughout and believe me it was touch and go for a while.

I agree in this (fei pony) case is it unlikely this pony injured his tongue accidentally and then developed a major infection and necrotic tongue, but not impossible.

Very difficult to prove though, if a vet is crooked they could easily manufacture evidence of a tongue injury particularly if no photos were involved.

Its really upsetting as its highly likely a change of bit/noseband would have helped enormously, possibly even solved the problem.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top