A new start - from full livery to DIY!

Kirstineridesagain

Kirstineridesagain

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I’m about to find out what it’s really like to own a horse (well, two). I’m going from full livery to DIY quite soon (exact timing not decided, but in the next couple of months to be sure). A field of just over three acres, shared with a friend and her horse. A stable, a small outdoor school, beautiful hacking. 15 minute’s drive. Thankfully my friend is very practical and has a lot of time so she can go every day - thinking of getting a freelance groom a few days a week if it becomes too much work, though.

I’m sure there will be so many decisions ahead, and new things to learn, but at last I’ll feel like a proper horse owner who can make my own decisions, and can see my horses as much as I like (well, pretty much every day), my daughter can bring friends to see the foal, the whole family can get to know the horses and I can slowly start to think about riding and groundwork to get my mare back into fitness. Not only that, I’ll be saving quite a lot of money so if I do need professional help or a new saddle I can justify it because I’ll be saving about £200 every month.

I’m sure I’ll be in for a shock, but hopefully also many happy moments (and will probably get fitter by doing some work myself!).

All amicable with the yard she’s on and they are aware I’m leaving - in fact, they suggested it. And hooves will be done very soon too.
 
I started out diy, did several years of full / 5 day livery and I’m now back on diy.
I much prefer it (ask me again in winter!!)
I like the improved bond with my horse
I like that if I fancy changing anything I don’t need to explain / justify it to someone else
I don't need to wonder if my instructions / requests are being followed
On diy you tend to interact with the other liveries more so I am more sociable and I have more people to bounce ideas off.
 
Excellent that you are moving away from where you are 🙂.

Will you be able to wean the foal first where she currently is? Can’t remember if the foal is old enough. Will there be company for the foal if you and your friend ride out together? It can be tricky with a threesome if one horse is left behind on its own, and I wouldn’t ever do that to a foal.
 
Tiddlypom said:
Excellent that you are moving away from where you are 🙂.

Will you be able to wean the foal first where she currently is? Can’t remember if the foal is old enough. Will there be company for the foal if you and your friend ride out together? It can be tricky with a threesome if one horse is left behind on its own, and I wouldn’t ever do that to a foal.
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I will never leave him alone. There will also be horses right next door. But foal can come along on little hacks, it’s completely off road. Also hoping to do small solo hacks so the two can be in the field together. The whole weaning thing needs to be thought out, but not planning to do cold turkey and want him to be weaned a bit later than six months.
 
Is the friend’s horse the one you are advertising for? So they don’t actually have it yet? How will you ensure it is safe around vulnerable youngstock? It will obviously need back shoes off.

Is your fencing foal proof and foal safe? How will you separate the mare and foal from the new horse safely to begin with? Temporary electric fence is not ideal.

Glad you have a farrier sorted, it’s fairly negligent of the previous yard to have left it so long. Is this same farrier going to be able to come to you on a regular routine when you move? Has he been getting wormed effectively and are you aware of correct ongoing worming protocols for foals?

Is your friend experienced in handling and training foals? They will need checked at least twice a day so if that’s not possible I think the idea of a freelancer is good - as long as they know what they are doing around foals.

Sorry lots of questions but having owned horses for 25 years and having worked on many yards, including with youngstock, my first foal was still a steep learning curve. And he had the benefit of coming from an experienced stud who had provided him with the best first 7 months of life possible and offer ongoing advice.

Not even questioning weaning or riding the mare yet, you have a lot to do before you need to worry about that.
 
It’s going to be a couple of months of working out all of the above!

I doubt it will be the same farrier, but there are plenty of good farriers around so will research that bit.
 
As I’m sure you appreciate, your set up will not be suitable for a weanling. You will be best to plan to send the foal off to youngstock livery at weaning so he can grow up in a herd of other youngstock. The other option would be to bring in another weanling, but you're going to struggle having enough land to support 3 horses so that is unlikely to work without putting in significant infrastructure with surfaced turnout pens etc
 
TheMule said:
As I’m sure you appreciate, your set up will not be suitable for a weanling. You will be best to plan to send the foal off to youngstock livery at weaning so he can grow up in a herd of other youngstock. The other option would be to bring in another weanling, but you're going to struggle having enough land to support 3 horses so that is unlikely to work without putting in significant infrastructure with surfaced turnout pens etc
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Youngstock livery is definitely an option.
 
Although I’ll be doing this alone (well, I have support from home) I am lucky that I keep in close contact with the breeder of my mare, a very experienced breeder of many years. She’s on hand to give advice, as are several other more experienced horse people that I know. We’ll take it one step at a time. Of course fencing etc will be appropriate - we have lots of time to get the set up ready thankfully.
 
Kirstineridesagain said:
Not yet. But suitability with my two is a priority.
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Exciting! Good luck, do be careful never to leave your youngster behind unless it’s securely fastened into a safe stable (lots of straw, no haynets, no bucket handles, no headcollar) with the top door closed - even a laid back foal that happily leads away and seems independent, can suddenly decide to leap out in pursuit - they’ve no body weight and very long legs!
 
Exasperated said:
Exciting! Good luck, do be careful never to leave your youngster behind unless it’s securely fastened into a safe stable (lots of straw, no haynets, no bucket handles, no headcollar) with the top door closed - even a laid back foal that happily leads away and seems independent, can suddenly decide to leap out in pursuit - they’ve no body weight and very long legs!
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I will not leave him on his own. ☺️
 
If you are only 15min away you can absolutely go every day. With a headtorch in the winter at silly o’clock both ends of the day.

The friend may or may not find a horse that is suitable for them. They may or may not find one that is kind towards a foal they have never met. Even the loveliest horse can have a moment and a foal to make 13.2hh is tiny and extremely vulnerable.

I’m going to tell you our experience after our surprise foal. Hopefully something in there will help you.

Ours was to make 11.2hh so was the size of a large dog. We did later acquire some weanlings to make 13.2hh though and used a similar setup.

First: fencing. They can limbo through or under post and rail if it’s too wide or too high off the ground. They can step on nails that fall from rotten wood or play with them and get them stuck in their mouths. Barbed wire is a definite no and I read too many stories of foals killings themselves or degloving legs in standard electric fencing. Which was a disaster for us as we had dodgy barbed wire fenced off with electric, and nothing at all in places. So we bought, at great expense, lots of the very stiff and therefore safer 40mm tape (was Fieldguard but they’ve since gone bust - same stuff is freely available online). We then attached that to thinner wooden posts inside the boundary until we could (with landlord’s permission) just remove the barbed wire and attach our sturdy electric fence to the posts on the perimeter. Worked an absolute treat. Foal did attempt to limbo out a few times but she never got hurt and all was well.

Second: company before weaning. Our very very very sweet first pony gelding became aggressive on sight of the foal. He didn’t accept her until she was about a year old. Some of the mares were ok, but to be safe I only ever put baby in with mum, mum’s best friend and our ancient Shetland. Nothing big went anywhere near them.

Weaning: I managed weaning by removing mum from the yard (she had had enough of her daughter by then!!) and neither was bothered. Foal got to stay with her buddies so felt safe. Mum got a well earned rest. We weaned at 5.5 months due to the mare losing too much weight and frankly being fed up of feeding the foal!

Post weaning buddies for foal: Our foal was small and our land rich. I bought another small weanling and they grew up together as part of the main herd. We still have one, the other has just found her perfect home.

Given we then had the setup for it, we then bought some weanlings from the sales. I did not integrate them in with the main herd until 2yo, just added an older nanny and left them to it. Around 18 months I trusted them enough with fencing to put them in a friend with standard boundary fencing and not the super safe stuff.


In terms of riding your mare - we weaned and then started backing about a month later.
 
Thanks for many good points. I’m hoping the colt will be over 14hands due to dad’s size, but yes, he is small! No barbed wire thankfully. It’s all a work in progress. How the setup will actually look is not clear yet. No contracts signed either - we’re still at an early stage. So timings will be worked out .
 
I forgot to add about gelding if you plan to keep the weanling with you there.

We managed to keep our weanlings together until the spring following - when they were nearly 1. Almost overnight the colt started mounting the fillies. We separated them immediately and booked in his op but the next two weeks were interesting. We had to keep the colt separate in a paddock that had to have extra height added to the fence and had to be extremely secure. He became a complete escape artist and tricky to handle. His hormones were literally driving him wild.

Colts ‘can’ mature earlier and can technically impregnate a mare from six months onwards depending on how they develop.
 
Kirstineridesagain said:
Thanks for many good points. I’m hoping the colt will be over 14hands due to dad’s size, but yes, he is small! No barbed wire thankfully. It’s all a work in progress. How the setup will actually look is not clear yet. No contracts signed either - we’re still at an early stage. So timings will be worked out .
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Great!
but someone who knows what they are doing will absolutely have to visit your mare & foal at least twice per day, until very much older and entirely independent.
Please don’t move them off the livery yard unless certain that you have basic supervision in place. Until you have bred and kept foals yourself, it is difficult to convey just how prone some of them are at getting into some sort of pickle or other, even in what appears to be a perfectly suitable environment. You need eyes on as much as possible.
 
I've seen videos of people hacking with foals at foot and a few people did it at my old barn in Colorado, but I think you have to live in the right place, and I don't think Scotland is it. The foal isn't going to just stay on the trail. They will dart about and explore. You probably don't want to do this on shared use trails, where say a loose dog could go for them, or a mountain biker could spook them and they could shoot off, and if they are 50 meters away from you and the mare, what are you going to do? She might freak out if the foal takes a fright and will want to run after it. Almost every trail I have ever hiked or ridden on in Scotland is surrounded by hazards like wire fences, bogs, ditches. Our barn in CO had 90 acres of its own land and trails where you weren't going to run into anyone else (no land access laws in the US like we have here), only a perimeter fence, and it's Colorado, so no bogs or hidden burns.

I found it very difficult to do things with my mare with the foal at foot. My mare wasn't backed herself, so it was just bits of groundwork, but I could only manage it when my friend (now the foal's owner) or my husband was at the barn and could entertain the foal. Otherwise, he'd be bouncing around, all over us. We took them on in hand walks on the roads and trails around the yard, but only when there was someone to lead the foal. If you are doing only a short hack in walk and you have a competent friend or family member to lead foal with you, you could probably get away with that. But they do need to be very competent. I remember a few instances of Caso bouncing around and rearing on our little walks. My friend/his owner was unphased by that, and she was able to gently correct it.

We did try to leave the foal with my friend in a pen when I took his mum into the arena (only like 20ft away, but around a corner) for a few minutes. He was around 5 months old. He went ballistic. We decided this wasn't a good idea. I am sure everyone on this forum would have told me that. I doubt you will be able to take your mare out and leave the foal until the foal is weaned.

I'm sure you're eager to ride your lovely mare, but I think most people wait until weaning to restart the mare.

We weaned ours by leaving him with his aunties, the mares he'd been turned out with from six weeks old onwards, and moving my mare to a herd who lived in a different part of the yard that was out of sight and earshot of where the main livery herds lived. It was fortuitous the barn was set up in that way. Foal was chilled with it. My mare wasn't. We had to keep them completely separated for about three months. His owner and I had to make sure we weren't wanting to be on the yard at the same time. After that, they were able to operate more or less like two normal horses at a livery yard. They'd still whicker at one another, but they could share a fenceline, and we could lead one away from the other without any drama.
 
Knowing me I will probably wait. I’m not known to take risks with horses, for their and my own safety. In theory it could work bringing her into work earlier, but it would have to be in the field probably (although to get to the outdoor school he could easily be led and it’s completely off road).
 
The most important thing I learned is that there is a lot of management that goes into land, what before was "HopOnTrop, could you move to X field on Wednesday" now becomes a much more involved process of worrying about land, worrying about contractors, praying for the right weather, trying to get contractors to turn up at a suitable time, moving horses/fencing/poo at a suitable time and of course.... paying for it.

Which makes livery seem like very good value!
 
maya2008 said:
I forgot to add about gelding if you plan to keep the weanling with you there.

We managed to keep our weanlings together until the spring following - when they were nearly 1. Almost overnight the colt started mounting the fillies. We separated them immediately and booked in his op but the next two weeks were interesting. We had to keep the colt separate in a paddock that had to have extra height added to the fence and had to be extremely secure. He became a complete escape artist and tricky to handle. His hormones were literally driving him wild.

Colts ‘can’ mature earlier and can technically impregnate a mare from six months onwards depending on how they develop.
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Good point! I chose to have mine gelded when he was still with his dam as there is research suggesting it is less stressful for them that way.

Mine was gelded at 6 months, along with 2 others at the stud. They then went back to their mums for some sympathy and care for a couple ofweeks.Then they were weaned together.

Other bonus of earlier gelding for the OP is it can add height. Not that I needed that, at 2 1/2 he’s already bigger than both his parents!
 
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rhino said:
Other bonus of earlier gelding for the OP is it can add height. Not that I needed that, at 2 1/2 he’s already bigger than both his parents!
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I normally get the colts gelded at about 6 months of age when they are still with their mum but one of my foals had to be gelded at a week old due to a hernia. He is now 17:3 (both parents were around the 16:3 mark) so it certainly added some height in his case!

To the OP, with the setup you are describing I would definitely be looking at youngstock livery. IMO youngsters need plenty of turn out space and similar age company with a sensible 'aunty' or two to teach them manners.

Some years ago I bought two weanlings as company for my foal. One of my boodmares absolutely took against one of the new foals and chased her out of the field. Fortunately I had a sensible gelding to 'uncle' the two foals until my foal was weaned. ~What I am trying to say is that there is no guarantee that your friend's new horse will be accommodating towards your foal.
 
eggs said:
I normally get the colts gelded at about 6 months of age when they are still with their mum but one of my foals had to be gelded at a week old due to a hernia. He is now 17:3 (both parents were around the 16:3 mark) so it certainly added some height in his case!

To the OP, with the setup you are describing I would definitely be looking at youngstock livery. IMO youngsters need plenty of turn out space and similar age company with a sensible 'aunty' or two to teach them manners.

Some years ago I bought two weanlings as company for my foal. One of my boodmares absolutely took against one of the new foals and chased her out of the field. Fortunately I had a sensible gelding to 'uncle' the two foals until my foal was weaned. ~What I am trying to say is that there is no guarantee that your friend's new horse will be accommodating towards your foal.
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That’s a big worry and something I will have to solve. Youngstock livery is an option, but then I don’t see the point of moving them before weaning, and the field will go to someone else and I’ll have to join a waiting list. It’s incredibly hard to find this kind of diy livery near me, where I don’t have to stable at night, and I’m very keen to make it work with my friend.
 
Kirstineridesagain said:
That’s a big worry and something I will have to solve. Youngstock livery is an option, but then I don’t see the point of moving them before weaning, and the field will go to someone else and I’ll have to join a waiting list. It’s incredibly hard to find this kind of diy livery near me, where I don’t have to stable at night, and I’m very keen to make it work with my friend.
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These type of set ups can be great but not usually for a novice first-time foal owner. Add in the complications of a small foal and my advice would be to use the next few months to really think about what is best for you all in the longer term.
 
Could you have the field for your mare and friends horse and put the foal in youngstock livery until he his a bit older? That way you won’t lose the field and can concentrate on bringing your mare back into work.

I have no experience with foals but they sound like hard work!
 
Herewegoagain said:
Could you have the field for your mare and friends horse and put the foal in youngstock livery until he his a bit older? That way you won’t lose the field and can concentrate on bringing your mare back into work.

I have no experience with foals but they sound like hard work!
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I think the foal is only about 8 weeks old so it would be quite a wait, I’m assuming field owner wants it let out quicker than that.
 
Herewegoagain said:
Could you have the field for your mare and friends horse and put the foal in youngstock livery until he his a bit older? That way you won’t lose the field and can concentrate on bringing your mare back into work.

I have no experience with foals but they sound like hard work!
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Foals aren’t hard work, they just need company of their own age and ample well-fenced turnout.
Sharing 3 acres with the dam and another older horse is never going to be an appropriate set up.
 
Kirstineridesagain said:
That’s a big worry and something I will have to solve. Youngstock livery is an option, but then I don’t see the point of moving them before weaning, and the field will go to someone else and I’ll have to join a waiting list. It’s incredibly hard to find this kind of diy livery near me, where I don’t have to stable at night, and I’m very keen to make it work with my friend.
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It would solve most of your problems, presuming the 3 acres is currently split into more than one field.

For now:
Mare and foal in one paddock, friend’s horse in another.

At weaning, send foal away rather than mare (having taught him to load etc first). That leaves two happy horses behind to make friends and winter together.

At the age of about 2/2.5 bring your youngster home for extra handling prior to backing. He can then go in with the older two.

Or sell at weaning and buy something your family members can ride now?
 
Selling the foal at weaning is much the best option, leaving the OP free to concentrate on her new mare who she hasn’t ridden yet because of the foal. If iceys are as popular as she says then he should be easy to sell on to a good home.

OP, you are clearly rather new to horse ownership and all it entails, and have rather jumped in by importing an in foal mare. I had owned for many years with my own yard at home before I first bred a foal, and even then it was a big learning curve. So much to go wrong so quickly, youngsters love to self harm.
 
Tiddlypom said:
Selling the foal at weaning is much the best option, leaving the OP free to concentrate on her new mare who she hasn’t ridden yet because of the foal. If iceys are as popular as she says then he should be easy to sell on to a good home.

OP, you are clearly rather new to horse ownership and all it entails, and have rather jumped in by importing an in foal mare. I had owned for many years with my own yard at home before I first bred a foal, and even then it was a big learning curve. So much to go wrong so quickly, youngsters love to self harm
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“Clearly rather new” - yes, I am new to ownership. Never said I wasn’t.

Selling is not an option. They are very popular (don’t know why you’re questioning that) at least among “Icey converts” (many don’t have a clue about them and therefore wouldn’t consider them), but the plan is still to keep him to be a future riding horse for myself and my daughter.

Lots of good advice in this thread, it’s still a bit of a puzzle that hasn’t quite come together but hopefully everything will slot into place eventually.

Had the current setup been ideal I would obviously have kept them there, but it isn’t. No other livery yards want a foal and so I’m trying to make things work. If anyone has a spare foal let me know (only half joking).
 
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