A new start - from full livery to DIY!

[rhino]

Had the current setup been ideal I would obviously have kept them there, but it isn’t. No other livery yards want a foal and so I’m trying to make things work. If anyone has a spare foal let me know (only half joking).

I can see that you are not joking as I have seen the post on fb. Please do not get a 2nd foal. You do not have the land. You do not have the experience. It will not be easier to put any training(or even basic handling) on 2 foals.

The £200 you think you are saving will quickly get used up on supplying forage (3.5 acres in most areas of Scotland will not support 4 horses) the high quality supplementation that growing foals need, insurance etc etc etc

 

[Kirstineridesagain]

I would need more land, and yes, I know it’s a bit crazy. Idea explored already and discarded. Back to the drawing board.

 

[rhino]

I would need more land, and yes, I know it’s a bit crazy. Idea explored already and discarded. Back to the drawing board.

Ask around. Ask everyone you know - vets, feed shop… Someone who has some native mares and foals perhaps, doesn’t need to be a commercial/big stud. Best case scenario you could also get some hands on experience with other littlies!

 

[Kirstineridesagain]

Ask around. Ask everyone you know - vets, feed shop… Someone who has some native mares and foals perhaps, doesn’t need to be a commercial/big stud. Best case scenario you could also get some hands on experience with other littlies!

Just asked someone who breeds Highlands who is a neighbour to the new yard. Fingers crossed he sees my message.

 

[Exasperated]

I've seen videos of people hacking with foals at foot and a few people did it at my old barn in Colorado, but I think you have to live in the right place, and I don't think Scotland is it. The foal isn't going to just stay on the trail. They will dart about and explore. You probably don't want to do this on shared use trails, where say a loose dog could go for them, or a mountain biker could spook them and they could shoot off, and if they are 50 meters away from you and the mare, what are you going to do? She might freak out if the foal takes a fright and will want to run after it. Almost every trail I have ever hiked or ridden on in Scotland is surrounded by hazards like wire fences, bogs, ditches. Our barn in CO had 90 acres of its own land and trails where you weren't going to run into anyone else (no land access laws in the US like we have here), only a perimeter fence, and it's Colorado, so no bogs or hidden burns.

I found it very difficult to do things with my mare with the foal at foot. My mare wasn't backed herself, so it was just bits of groundwork, but I could only manage it when my friend (now the foal's owner) or my husband was at the barn and could entertain the foal. Otherwise, he'd be bouncing around, all over us. We took them on in hand walks on the roads and trails around the yard, but only when there was someone to lead the foal. If you are doing only a short hack in walk and you have a competent friend or family member to lead foal with you, you could probably get away with that. But they do need to be very competent. I remember a few instances of Caso bouncing around and rearing on our little walks. My friend/his owner was unphased by that, and she was able to gently correct it.

We did try to leave the foal with my friend in a pen when I took his mum into the arena (only like 20ft away, but around a corner) for a few minutes. He was around 5 months old. He went ballistic. We decided this wasn't a good idea. I am sure everyone on this forum would have told me that. I doubt you will be able to take your mare out and leave the foal until the foal is weaned.

I'm sure you're eager to ride your lovely mare, but I think most people wait until weaning to restart the mare.

We weaned ours by leaving him with his aunties, the mares he'd been turned out with from six weeks old onwards, and moving my mare to a herd who lived in a different part of the yard that was out of sight and earshot of where the main livery herds lived. It was fortuitous the barn was set up in that way. Foal was chilled with it. My mare wasn't. We had to keep them completely separated for about three months. His owner and I had to make sure we weren't wanting to be on the yard at the same time. After that, they were able to operate more or less like two normal horses at a livery yard. They'd still whicker at one another, but they could share a fenceline, and we could lead one away from the other without any drama.

This is a good way of weaning - if set up for it - set-up will affect everything the OP can achieve.
The longer things remain just mum & son together, the more wrenching any separations will be.
Riding / working a healthy mare with foal at foot is perfectly possible, probably a very good idea to get both of them thinking about other things, but must be a suitable situation!
If foal can frolic and explore while riding all around the farm checking livestock or something - perfect.
If riding anywhere there is public access, remember you are fully liable for controlling your animals and any damage or injuries they cause - foals do foolish things!
We’ve backed mares with foals at foot, ideally shut two foals away together in a straw filled loosebox while we messed with the mothers, slowly extending the time apart. By the time they were weaned, 1 -2 hour slow rides without sweating or stress, but always left someone on site to keep an eye on those foals. Most foals on their own will shout and stress at first, obviously are individuals, but it’s generally easier with a pair, also for weaning.
Have at different times kept two foals without any other baby company (their dams already broken), both mares were very gradually but regularly taken for some exercise, so it never became a big shock for any of them. However, those mothers were my homebreds, so familiarity and confidence already there.
Use your common sense, don’t take unnecessary risks, enjoy your foal!

I've seen videos of people hacking with foals at foot and a few people did it at my old barn in Colorado, but I think you have to live in the right place, and I don't think Scotland is it. The foal isn't going to just stay on the trail. They will dart about and explore. You probably don't want to do this on shared use trails, where say a loose dog could go for them, or a mountain biker could spook them and they could shoot off, and if they are 50 meters away from you and the mare, what are you going to do? She might freak out if the foal takes a fright and will want to run after it. Almost every trail I have ever hiked or ridden on in Scotland is surrounded by hazards like wire fences, bogs, ditches. Our barn in CO had 90 acres of its own land and trails where you weren't going to run into anyone else (no land access laws in the US like we have here), only a perimeter fence, and it's Colorado, so no bogs or hidden burns.

I found it very difficult to do things with my mare with the foal at foot. My mare wasn't backed herself, so it was just bits of groundwork, but I could only manage it when my friend (now the foal's owner) or my husband was at the barn and could entertain the foal. Otherwise, he'd be bouncing around, all over us. We took them on in hand walks on the roads and trails around the yard, but only when there was someone to lead the foal. If you are doing only a short hack in walk and you have a competent friend or family member to lead foal with you, you could probably get away with that. But they do need to be very competent. I remember a few instances of Caso bouncing around and rearing on our little walks. My friend/his owner was unphased by that, and she was able to gently correct it.

We did try to leave the foal with my friend in a pen when I took his mum into the arena (only like 20ft away, but around a corner) for a few minutes. He was around 5 months old. He went ballistic. We decided this wasn't a good idea. I am sure everyone on this forum would have told me that. I doubt you will be able to take your mare out and leave the foal until the foal is weaned.

I'm sure you're eager to ride your lovely mare, but I think most people wait until weaning to restart the mare.

We weaned ours by leaving him with his aunties, the mares he'd been turned out with from six weeks old onwards, and moving my mare to a herd who lived in a different part of the yard that was out of sight and earshot of where the main livery herds lived. It was fortuitous the barn was set up in that way. Foal was chilled with it. My mare wasn't. We had to keep them completely separated for about three months. His owner and I had to make sure we weren't wanting to be on the yard at the same time. After that, they were able to operate more or less like two normal horses at a livery yard. They'd still whicker at one another, but they could share a fenceline, and we could lead one away from the other without any drama.

 

[PurpleSpots]

Asking for guidance or help or youngstock livery from a reputable local native pony stud was a suggestion a couple of us made a while back - still a valid idea for sure.

Lots of practical advice on this thread - only thing I'd add that when the time comes, rather than taking the foal away in a trailer alone if foal is to be weaned elsewhere, I'd always want another horse in with him/her on the journey. The one time I properly separated a mare and foal to be weaned (I always use electric tape now and they stay in close and visual contact with each other but each with their own friends until they are so dissociated they don't worry when it's necessary for one or other to go to a different field out of sight, know it doesn't work for everyone but it's the least stressful way and most supportive way I have found to do it) I travelled mare and foal together, led mare and foal to foal's new field area, hung around while foal settled, led mare quietly away. Again, I know that wouldn't work for everyone and every mare and foal, hence saying simply another horse in trailer so foal isn't alone on the journey wondering what the hell is going on and potentially being set up for a life of trailer-associated anxiety, but it was the best way for that mare and foal and something I would definitely do again if I felt it would suit the mare and foal in question.

 

[Exasperated]

I will never leave him alone. There will also be horses right next door. But foal can come along on little hacks, it’s completely off road. Also hoping to do small solo hacks so the two can be in the field together. The whole weaning thing needs to be thought out, but not planning to do cold turkey and want him to be weaned a bit later than six months.

Just re read this, look, if you think that riding your mare away and leaving an unweaned foal to remain in the field with another horse - albeit one they usually live with - guarantees that foal will not consider trying to go in pursuit of the mother - please think again.
Until definitely weaned and operating independently, make sure the foal is only left if securely closed in. Loose box, smooth walls, not gates or window bars, with the top door shut.

 

[cariadbach10]

We bred our first foal in 2024- similar set up in that the mare was bought in foal, and three other horses on site which reduced to one- my Arab gelding. He became the foal’s uncle- was there at his birth and replied to his first whicker. Mum was very laid back and foal got to know the others over the fence of our open barn. I didn’t allow them in the same field together till he was about four months old. All went well and they were a happy little trio. However when foal was six months old I took my eye off the ball and let him into the barn when older gelding had finished his food and left a little in the bucket, which foal went to eat. Gelding decided he DID want it and moved the foal off it; foal was caught in a corner of the barn, and ripped his neck open on a blunt bolt- the innocuous kind that holds on every five bar gate in the country. It was so bad I honestly didn’t know whether to call the vet or the hunt, but the vet sewed him up. He was lucky to escape as another few cms and it would have been his jugular. It was the kind of freak accident that happens regularly with foals- this was the only bolt of its kind in a huge barn, but he found it. He and the gelding carried on being good friends but I wouldn’t EVER feed horses without separating them and removing the buckets even when you think they’re finished- especially foals and their aunties/uncles.

Weaning was delayed because of the injury, so we gelded him at about nine months, and started doing over the fence weaning, taking mum away from foal and gelding but ensuring they could still see one another. This involved spending four figures on post and rail to safely divide a large field. I didn’t trust electric as had known a foal years ago get tangled up in it and die. We increased the period of time they were separated gradually before I sent mum away on rebacking livery for five weeks when foal was eleven months old. He had still been sneaking odd feeds up till then. All was pretty calm- foal was fine with his gelding mate and mum dried up nicely off site and out of sight of him. I think sending the mare away rather than the foal worked well as he got to stay in familiar surroundings with his friend, whilst coping with being cold turkey.

Brought mum back, and reintroduced everyone and to my surprise he didn’t try to feed again- or if he did she told him where to go.

Eventually decided to send him off site to youngstock livery as he was getting a bit big for me to handle (he’s destined for racing and will make 17hh) and needed to see a bit of life and experience stabling and yard environment.

All in all, the whole process has been rewarding but incredibly stressful and expensive. Adding in extra risk such as a new horse coming in or trying to ride the mare with the foal careering around loose in the background- eek. I would honestly imagine the worse case scenario and work backwards from there. I know that sounds dramatic but it really does only take a moment’s lapsed concentration or a feed bucket in the wrong place for things to escalate.

Good luck with the move!

 

[Ahrena]

I will add a slightly different tact to all this. I’m an experienced owner, spent best part of 10 years working as a rider/groom etc but was new to foals.

For various reasons, I ended up renting a field when my foal was about 6 months old. It was the dam, foal and then I bought a weanling to keep him company. I weaned over a temporary (the plastic stakes) electric fence.

I did a lot of research and my horses knew and were respectful of electric fencing. It was entirely drama free. Once he was happy with his pal, I started riding mum.

He would run around neighing for a minute or two when I left, then settled. I don’t know if he’s just needy and that’s just him or if it’s a product of his weaning as he’s now 3, I lost his mum a couple of years ago, and he still runs about screaming for a minute or so when I take my mare out. He’s not as funny when I take his friend out.

 

[Widgeon]

I forgot to add about gelding if you plan to keep the weanling with you there.

We managed to keep our weanlings together until the spring following - when they were nearly 1. Almost overnight the colt started mounting the fillies. We separated them immediately and booked in his op but the next two weeks were interesting. We had to keep the colt separate in a paddock that had to have extra height added to the fence and had to be extremely secure. He became a complete escape artist and tricky to handle. His hormones were literally driving him wild.

Colts ‘can’ mature earlier and can technically impregnate a mare from six months onwards depending on how they develop.

On the other hand, it can be fairly straightforward. My colt starting mounting his gelding friend pretty well exactly when he hit a year. He was his normal friendly self in all other respects, just a bit more bolshy and obviously VERY annoying for the gelding. He didn't try to jump out to find the mares or do anything silly. I rang the vet the next day, he was castrated about a week later. Hormones subsided within about ten days, I didn't have to do anything special with fencing or handling.

@Kirstineridesagain I know your friend doesn't have a horse yet but my experience definitely proved the value of a nice natured gelding as a buddy for a colt. But buying a horse is a bit of a minefield anyway so I appreciate you'll have to work with whatever you find that's suitable for her.

ETA oh and my yearling is happy to be left alone if the other horses go off on a short hack. So long as he has plenty of hay and his head in a bucket when we leave, he's not fussed. We did work up to that in the same way you'd train a puppy to be left alone, but it wasn't hard. So be prepared for the worst (as always) but please don't start panicking and thinking that everything that can go wrong, will. If you have experienced help and can pay for outside help when needed, you'll probably muddle through just fine in the setup you have available.

 

[Widgeon]

Just asked someone who breeds Highlands who is a neighbour to the new yard. Fingers crossed he sees my message.

ooh now that sounds like a really useful contact. If he's a nice helpful chap I would be cultivating him as a neighbour bottle of whisky for Christmas etc....if he's friendly he could be invaluable.

 

[Muddywellies]

I've done horses at home, full livery and diy. Full livery has its place, but I much prefer diy.