A novice's experiences of buying a horse, an ongoing report...

[vallin]

As the eagle eyed ( ) of you will have noticed I'm currently looking for a new horse so I thought I'd keep a record of my experiences in the hope that they might amuse some and help other novice buyer like myself. Original blog is here http://vallin-photography.com/blog/second-horse/ but I thought I'd share with HHO - feel free to comment/CC/advise!

V

So the time has finally come to start looking for a second horse. I've been toying with the idea for about a year, but now it's getting serious. Buying a horse - sounds simple, right? Wrong. Turns out I know naff all about buying horses! Time to swot up.

Having found a horse to go look at and arranged a viewing I realised needed a plan (preferably a minute-by-minute, highlighted and annotated one ). I therefore consulted the Horse and Hound Forum and received some fantastic advice, leading to the plan below (alas, not quite minute-by-minute )


Step 1 - Meet horse in stable, have a good feel all over its body looking out for lumps/bumps, unevenness, conformational weaknesses, and assessing general attitude of horse

Step 2 - See horse walked away and towards and then trotted away and towards, not just focusing on what the feet are doing but looking out for movement of pelvis and back

Step 3 - Watch horse being tacked up/tack up horse watching for any signs of discomfort or resistance in the horse

Step 4 - Watch the horse being ridden, just a brief walk, trot, canter, jump and then hop on! If feeling happy/safe work through walk, trot, canter at your own pace and then pop it over jump/couple of jumps/jump with jacket over until you're happy you've got a good idea of the horses ability and attitude

Step 5 - Take horse for a walk down the road looking for spookiness/nappy behaviour (possibly do this on second viewing if you're that way inclined)

And most importantly (and the part I knew I would be worst at!) ASK QUESTION THROUGHOUT!


Now, rather than spreading out my viewing experiences over many posts I have decided to summarise my experiences, horse-by-horse below. Feel free to mock my mistakes! And to keep you entertained I have included some pictures of French looking increasingly feral



Horse 1 - 16.2, 6yo, mare, working hunter type Irish Sports Horse, being sold by a well know dealer.

Seeing as my friend S was about dragged her along as well, if for no other reason than she could drive my car home if everything went disastrously wrong I arrived with my plan clear in my head and set about 'viewing a horse'. First impressions were good, nice conformation, dished a bit behind but nothing too off putting, calm manner in the stable. One thing that stood out was the presence of sweat marks around the girth, suggesting she's already been ridden that day, not a deal breaker but worth being aware of. The seller got on, walk, trot, canter and jump, off he got and on I got. First thing I realised was that she was big, sometimes on the ground horses give the impression of being quite small but as soon as you get on you feel miles away from the ground, and on this girl I certainly did. I had my walk, trot, canter and jump and the horse didn't put a foot wrong but for some reason I just didn't feel safe. I had a chat with the seller and said I'd be in touch with him about arranging a second viewing (the horse looked right on paper, so even though I had this uncomfortable feeling in my stomach she must be the one, right?) and drove home. I talked to S and another good friend about the mare and still wasn't sure what I wanted to do. The next day she had been sold to somebody else. The universes way of telling me she wasn't the one? We'll go with that



Horse 2 - 16.2, 5y, gelding, national hunt type TB with good bloodlines, being sold by a novice hobby dealer.

Went to view this boy on my own not really expecting much as on paper he wasn't my 'type' and I think this is where I made my mistake. Because I wasn't expecting to like him I didn't have my plan in my head, expecting to be there more for the experience than to buy (yes people whinge about 'timewasters' when selling horses, but unfortunately for novice buyers it's a bit of a necessary evil). I did step 1 pretty well, but in my haste (being surprised by the fact that I actually quite like to lad) I skipped step 2. Step 3-5 went well, I felt safe and happy, he jumped over my scarf and generally had a fantastic attitude. I went home happy, having decided to go for a second viewing with a more knowledgeable friend. Second viewing time came and I was increasingly nervous, I hate riding in front of other people, especially ones who's opinions I respect, so a big dose of 'man the hell up' was needed and dully delivered. Before we arrived A clarified what I wanted from her - to tell me honestly if she thought the horse was going to do the job I wanted with me as pilot. We arrived, checked passport, A asked lots of questions I should have asked already (was chastised for this later) and I had a second ride in the school. I still really liked him so A got on to have a feel and judge whether he would do the job. She liked his attitude so I was allowed ( ) to take him for a walk down the road where he didn't put a foot wrong and filled me with hope and confidence. We got back to the yard and A asked me if I'd notice the lump on his gluteal muscle, I admitted I hadn't, had I seen him walk and trotted up in hand? again I hadn't, could I see anything wrong with his pelvis? ah. His pelvis was a good inch or so higher on one side compared with the other. ******. I thanked the seller and said I let her know in the next day or so. On the drive home we discussed the horse at length and I was surprised by how upbeat A was about him. However, with hindsight I think she wanted me to work through it on my own and make sure I learned from my mistake. I had a good long think about and checked my thoughts against those of the wise bods on HHO and came to the conclusion that my gut feeling was correct. He wasn't going to be the horse for me Onwards goes the search!

 

[Birker2020]

Horse two may have put his pelvis out rolling or getting cast or falling in the field. Nothing that a physio and a few exercises couldn't put right. But i know how you feel, if you are compromising already before even getting the horse then maybe its not the best choice.

GOOD TIP - whilst you are riding get your friend to stand next to the vendor and film you riding. Make sure the volume is up! Get your friend to casually drop in some questions - "does the horse hack out alone"? "Is it good to shoe?", "does it buck?" "does it rear?". This way you have it all on film as proof of what the vendor has told you, should you buy the horse, get it home and find its a complete nutcase! Also see the stable that the horse lives in, and check it hasn't had water withheld from it. This can cause a horse to be dopey through dehydration. Also check the horse doesn't crib bite or windsuck by seeing it loose in its stable and watching it for a while.

 

[vallin]

Thanks for that Applecart 14

Forgot to convert the frenchie pics so here they are

 

[Dusty M Yeti]

Hopefully the knowledgeable friend (A) from the second viewing of horse 2, taught you what you should be asking and looking for on a first viewing. Everybody has to learn these things - assessing horses in a short space of time takes skill and experience and imo it is easier to pick up along the way than read in a book! Keep going, the right horse will be out there

 

[windseywoo]

I'm not a novice horse owner, but like yourself I'm a novice buyer. The two horses I've had before I've had from foals so they were a blank canvas and on the whole have both turned out fine!!! However my partner decided last summer that he would like a horse of his own after pootling around on my friends very safe and dependable cob. So throughout the winter he's been having lessons with my instructor and has come along very quickly. What with other things such as moving house and going on holiday in the last three months, we've then got down to looking for a horse. We wanted to rehome from one of the charities but there never seemed anything suitable for him, so we started on the sites and emailed a couple of people. So the viewings started last week and the first horse we tried was a 16.2 irish horse about 10 who seemed a nice chap. I got on, asked for a trot and he almost bounced me out the saddle, he had so much power that almost straight away I thought it would be too much for OH to ride. However I took him out and he was sound on the road so we said we'd have a think. OH really liked his attitude and because I wasn't sure we got my instructor to try him the following day, with OH also having a sit on. However instructor agreed with me and even though we liked him he wasn't right at the time. Cut to this weekend we went to see a Warmblood/cob cross mare 15.3, 7 years old, with instructor in tow and have come away with new horse. She's more like what we were looking for in our minds very sweet, doesn't worry about anything on a hack and nice to handle. Pretty much followed your set of rules, but as soon as instructor said she liked her we were sold. Obviously I think price comes into it a little bit and what you want to do, but always go with your gut and i'm sure you'll find your horse eventually. Good luck

 

[Maclinda]

Great advise from Applecart14 "GOOD TIP - whilst you are riding get your friend to stand next to the vendor and film you riding. Make sure the volume is up! Get your friend to casually drop in some questions - "does the horse hack out alone"? "Is it good to shoe?", "does it buck?" "does it rear?". This way you have it all on film as proof of what the vendor has told you, should you buy the horse, get it home and find its a complete nutcase! "
Great piece of advise!!!!! AFTER I HAD BOUGHT my first horse the owner sent me a vid of him jumping (with someone else riding him), in the background I hear her telling her friend "I just want to be able to take him down the road without being thrown off!!!!!!!" WHAT!!! luckily he turned out to be a fantastic horse and it was more about her inexperience that him being a psycho!

 

[Birker2020]

Great piece of advise!!!!! AFTER I HAD BOUGHT my first horse the owner sent me a vid of him jumping (with someone else riding him), in the background I hear her telling her friend "I just want to be able to take him down the road without being thrown off!!!!!!!" WHAT!!! luckily he turned out to be a fantastic horse and it was more about her inexperience that him being a psycho!

OMG that's unbelievable!

 

[Birker2020]

He looks a nice sort. x

 

[Holding]

That was very entertaining, definitely keep updating! I went looking for a horse earlier in the year and tried a handful. Horse 1 I adored but tanked off a bit on one rein and I wasn't sure, plus he was more money than I wanted to pay. Horse 2 I bought subject to vetting, then she failed . Horse 3 was described as 'sharp' but she went beautifully for me in the trot, asked for canter and found myself standing on the floor next to her. Horses 4 through 8 were lame/mad/both. I ended up keeping the current horse, so not a great success story!

Definitely always have a friend along. They don't even need to be super experienced - I'd rather go with a non-horsey friend than nobody at all. Their job is to ask lots of questions, then pause for awkwardly long amounts of time while the seller rambles on and incriminates themselves/the horse. They are also there to refuse to let you get on anything that looks dangerous, so you can save face and pretend you definitely were looking forward to trying to sit a vertical rear. And most importantly, as you drive away, they are responsible for assuring you that you looked brilliant on the horse, ride like Carl Hester, and the fact that you couldn't even manage to get a canter was totally the seller's fault. For the latter, I find my mother works best.

 

[dominobrown]

Don't be afraid to try as many horses as possible, I don't believe that is time wasting, however doing 2nd/ 3rd viewings and keeping the seller hanging on is time wasting. Don't be to stuck into buying a particular type eithers because you might be surprised.
Like others have said take someone with you every time. Don't be embarrassed to bring a notepad with questions you want to ask with you. Also it helps to read between the lines. I tried a lovely horse down in Leicestershire who was quite under budget, which was on a hunting yard. Everything else on the yard hunted- that horse didn't, and from bits and bobs the groom said I bet it could be a sharp sod out and about. Although I was buying an event horse I wanted to know whether it had hunted as to hunt successfully your horse would generally need reasonable manners and not be a complete lunatic (however after spending a few years hunting other people's 4 year old pointers that might not be completely true )
Finally, you need to be a bit clinical, don't let emotions come in to it.

 

[vallin]

Thank you for all the advice suggestions, it has been taken on board! And dominobrown - I agree re emotions, I am currently fighting a battle between what my heart wants and what my head (and A!) know will actually be suitable!

Have seen a couple of horses I like the look of to view next weekend so will update with successes/failures after

 

[vallin]

UPDATE!

Horse 3 - To say this week at work has been long is an understatement! I was therefore looking forward to a weekend of viewing horses. However, for one reason or another by the time the weekend actually arrived I had no horses to view! A quick look on HHO/Horsemart turned up a 15.2, 6yo, ROR gelding who looked sweet (if not ticking many boxes) and was only 10 minuted down. I had a long conversation with the seller on the phone (asking lots of question!) and arranged to view the horse at 0830 on Sunday morning (euch! ). A had also agreed to come with me seeing as it's so close (and I think she's getting sick of me sending her links to ads ) so of we tootled. This time I was not getting complacent; met the chap in his stable, good grope all over, nothing seemed out of place and asked the seller to walk him up for me (step 1 and 2, check). He moved very straight and had a lovely over track in walk so it was back to the barn to be tacked up. Step 3 went well and seller got on. First thing I noticed is that he grinds his teeth like a diva! Didn't seem overly stressed or unsettled but it was definitely worth noting with dressage in mind. After she had a quick walk, trot, canter, jump and got on. Now at this point I feel I should apologise to the seller, I promise I am not that much of a numpty rider and I am capable of getting a tune out of most mid-range horses, however nerves very much struck and I rode like a tool! Ho-hum, horse didn't seem overly bothered and once we got over our miscommunication in the canter I popped him over a cross pole and then a cross pole with some bits underneath. I got off feeling somewhat ashamed of my riding, but happy with the horse. I left it there and told the seller I'd speak to her later in the week about viewing him again at a venue with a school (she only has fields to ride in at her yard). Discussions on the way home with A showed that her line of thinking was very much in line with my own, nice horse, definitely do the job and would teach me a lot along the way as well as being something I can bring on - but am I going to like him enough to keep me happy even though he isn't what I really want...?

To be continued!


Frenchie had a bath today in preparation for having her end of winter clip so to keep you amused, here's a picture of an unimpressed looking french horse

 

[goodtimes]

I was always told, when viewing a horse, ride really badly as well as ride as you would normally. That way you will know how the horse reacts if you accidently gob it, lose you balance, bounce around a bit. So I wouldn't worry too much. Good luck in your search.

 

[Laafet]

I hate trying horses with a passion, when we bought my first horse I was working in a dealers yard at the time so more than used to riding strange horses. It took a year of traipsing up and down the country looking at horses, most not as described. 3 failed vetting later, the farrier mentioned a horse just a few miles down the road that he thought would suit me, he was grey which at that time had been a big no no, but we thought as he wasn't far it was worth a look. It was love at first sight, and after a passed vetting, he came home and gave me 10 fantastic years. Since then I have either bought racehorses off the track or bought via word of mouth. When I bought Nickel, I had given my old dealer friend a budget and description of what I wanted. She knows me really well so went off to Ireland, bought a few and found a few local to her for me to try. I ended up riding 4 horses of varying ages and budgets and set my heart on one, that was Nickel. He came home the following week. I had looked at a few privately before I went to her but was getting so disheartened by the whole process.

 

[Firewell]

Funny thread thanks for posting . I'm the worst Novice buyer, I managed to get screwed over by TWO dodgy dealers. Good luck with finding your new partner, re the teeth grinding it *may* be a sign of ulcers. Or it might not be, my old horse ground his teeth and he was fab for 20yrs!
Keep us updated

 

[el_Snowflakes]

Agree with apple cart re taking pics & vids, with sellers permission of course! That way you can mull
It over at home

 

[el_Snowflakes]

I was always told, when viewing a horse, ride really badly as well as ride as you would normally. That way you will know how the horse reacts if you accidently gob it, lose you balance, bounce around a bit. So I wouldn't worry too much. Good luck in your search.

Erm, I wouldn't agree with the riding badly bit. If I was the seller, I wouldn't sell my horse to someone who rode badly!!

 

[Lolo]

Erm, I wouldn't agree with the riding badly bit. If I was the seller, I wouldn't sell my horse to someone who rode badly!!

I wonder if they mean don't ride into the fence and see what happens, hit a misser and then come again and see how the horse reacts both times, drop the contact when schooling and see what the response is... Al got Smokey on some odd strides trying him out, and his response was to just go higher- he never considered saying no because she got it wrong. It's not riding badly as such, just seeing what happens in not-ideal situations.

 

[Blythe Spirit]

LOL@Holding - i think i will print out your instructions to the viewers accomplice and give them to my husband - we went to see a few horses for me together (he is horsey BTW) when he stood an sulked throughout the viewing refusing to speak to anyone at all. refused to discuss horse on the way home and when pushed assured me that I rode like a beginner, looked nervous, shouldn't have tried jumping, should buy a bigger one etc etc!

which explains why i usually take my dad - though he is actually less experienced with horses!

 

[TarrSteps]

Erm, I wouldn't agree with the riding badly bit. If I was the seller, I wouldn't sell my horse to someone who rode badly!!

If you go to try a horse and it can't cope with how you ride when you're anxious, it's not the horse for you. After all, what's going to happen when you get to an horse show?

Re selling horses. I see your point but I don't think it's particularly productive to start judging prospective buyers too harshly. If you feel the horse is not suitable, then definitely it's time to speak up. If the buyer manages the horse fine, the horse is okay with it and every thing looks safe, I think it's a bit tricky to say you'll not sell it because you're waiting from someone better!

Now, riding intentionally badly, I think that is a different situation. There are ways you can test a horse without being unfair to it and if I really thought a prospective buyer was intentionally trying to get a horse to make a mistake, I might very well ask them to be on their way.

 

[el_Snowflakes]

Well I'm not convinced....if someone started trying out what would happen if they "accidentally gobbed it" they would be on their way.....!

 

[TarrSteps]

Well I'm not convinced....if someone started trying out what would happen if they "accidentally gobbed it" they would be on their way.....!

Didn't I just say that?

Now, riding intentionally badly, I think that is a different situation. There are ways you can test a horse without being unfair to it and if I really thought a prospective buyer was intentionally trying to get a horse to make a mistake, I might very well ask them to be on their way.

But I don't think that is the same thing as someone worrying that, because they are nervous, the seller will send them down the road. And equally, as a piece of buying advice, why would you want a horse that will down tools just because you're a bit anxious and not riding your best? Surely that doesn't bode well for the future?

 

[Ditchjumper2]

If a horse will stop, start, stand and steer with one hand whilst OH is holding hunting whip or flask in the other hand it is almost a deal and if it stands whilst he has a wee so much the better . Seriously a horse which has to be ridden 100% properly would not suit us.

 

[el_Snowflakes]

Didn't I just say that?




But I don't think that is the same thing as someone worrying that, because they are nervous, the seller will send them down the road. And equally, as a piece of buying advice, why would you want a horse that will down tools just because you're a bit anxious and not riding your best? Surely that doesn't bode well for the future?

TS I was responding to 'good times' who said they would intentionally ride badly to see why happened if they "gobbed it in the mouth". You said you wondered if they meant ride badly, as in not riding it into a fence/dropping contact et. This is all fine, & I doubt anyone would discount a prospective buyer for being a little nervous. I was simply responding to this particular quote.

 

[TarrSteps]

Ah, okay. I thought I'd missed something.

I've been with lots of people to look at lots of horses, showed lots of horses to prospective buyers and even ridden horses for buyers that weren't present. There are lots of ways to test horses (although anyone who tells you they have a crystal ball is lying) and I don't think there is any reason to trap horses unfairly.

 

[Goldenstar]

If a horse will stop, start, stand and steer with one hand whilst OH is holding hunting whip or flask in the other hand it is almost a deal and if it stands whilst he has a wee so much the better . Seriously a horse which has to be ridden 100% properly would not suit us.

Us to .
I have when trying MrGS potential horses try dropping the reins in front of jumps turning to fence with very little warning .
Stopping and standing while the rider does all sort of peculiar things .
Cantering on loose reins ( MrGS is very fond of cantering about with his reins in loops while I watch through my fingers )
MrGS getting off and expecting the horse to stay with him .
Standing walking and trotting while MrGS texts and emails various parts of the world .
Luckily the calm can do ID's we find seem to thrive on this type of think for yourself lifestyle .
We have Fatty2 in training he's green and being trained for the job the first time I have done this rather than buying a made one , he's coming on fine .

 

[FabioandFreddy]

After viewing lots of horses that sounded great on paper, my advice would be to always see video of the horse before wasting time viewing. Even this isn't foolproof but gives you a better idea of what to expect. And also ask if the advert pictures are recent and if they're not, ask them to take some. You'd be amazed at the amount of people that will use years old pics on the ad and the horse isn't in that condition now.

 

[TarrSteps]

After viewing lots of horses that sounded great on paper, my advice would be to always see video of the horse before wasting time viewing. Even this isn't foolproof but gives you a better idea of what to expect. And also ask if the advert pictures are recent and if they're not, ask them to take some. You'd be amazed at the amount of people that will use years old pics on the ad and the horse isn't in that condition now.

I once was alerted to an ad using a photo of myself riding a horse for sale, which dated from two owners before!!

 

[vallin]

UPDATE! (have read all the replies above, thanks, some interesting points raised )
So the TB is still a maybe, aim going to try him at a school next week, however in the mean time I went to try...

Horse 4: 15.2, 6yo, ISH, mare with an (apparent) slight attitude problem. I saw this mare advertised on both HHO and facebook with the classic tag 'not suitable for a novice', *the* most useless tag (to me) in the world. Anyway, both myself and A watched the videos on youtube and agreed it was worth at least a phone call. I spoke to the seller at length and also spoke to the gentleman that rides the horse when the daughter is on holiday, and decide that if I could combine the viewing with a trip to the beach then mare was worth a look. A will only doing second viewings/incredibly local viewings so the unhorsey OH was bribed with ice cream and a pic nic to come along I had previously agreed with the seller that I'd meet her there at 12 and would like the horse to be in so was a bit annoyed when she didn't arrive until 1210 and the horse was still out, ho-hum, bite my tounge and smile. The seller had told me that the horse was generally grumpy and liked to pull faces/squish you against the wall, so I was rather suprised to be presented with a very sweet, calm mare that seemed quite happy to put up with being prodded and poked! Horse was trotted up (I'm getting better at this viewing thing ) and moved very nicely, if rather exuberantly So far, so good. A semi-pro was ridding the horse for the viewing (reason open to interpretation) so he got on and immediately put the horse into trot and then canter. Hmmm. Horse was throwing herself about a bit but nothing horrendous. I asked him to walk the horse around the school before he did any jumping. She was a bit 'joggy' but did eventually walk. He then popped her over a cross pole and a vertical which she jumped nicely, if a bit OTT. I asked the pro to get off and I got on. I took people's advice on here and spent a good 10 minutes just getting comfortable with the horse in walk and trot as I (correctly) suspected that when I asked for a bit more she was going to start throwing herself around. She did a good impression of a bouncing ball but I slowly got a bit more used to her and comfortable sitting on her and then popped her over a cross pole on each rein. I decided to leave it there as the horse was really rather sweaty and blowing and I didn't feel it was fair to ask any more of her. I helped the seller untack her and she went back to the calm, chilled horse that we brought in. I told the seller I needed to have a good think and would let her know by the end of this week and took the OH to the beach.

So yes, that was the viewing. Now to do some thinking about whether or not the horse is going to be able to cope with my unregimented life style and whether or not I am a good enough rider to school her out of the bouncy ball impression.

In other news horse 1 is back up for sale...am waiting on the dealer to message me with details of what happened there...

And finally a question...I have seen a nice little Irish mare, being sold by someone well known but not a pro. However I spoke to her today and the horse, despite coming over from Ireland 3 weeks ago (6yo), does not have a passport...is this legal?

Thanks

And a picture of a very naked, very sexy French pony

 

[TT55]

Great post, OP

Ohhh i made so many mistakes when viewing current horsey. I must have looked like such an idiot... didn't trot up, didn't make owner ride first... etc etc. Horse was tacked up when I arrived and i'm fairly sure she was ridden before. I saw her tacked up and fresh at 2nd viewing though... Luckily she's turned out alright

I have no idea how to buy horses, haha! I'm not too bad at spotting lameness, but i'm always afraid that if I trot it up and I don't notice any lameness that the owner is potentially trying to hide, i'll look like even more of an idiot!