A&P Care and Gain for weight gain

lynz88

lynz88

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Wanted to get some feedback on the Allen and Page care and gain. I have generally read some good things on here about it but just in bits and bobs. It's looking like I'm about to do a yard move which will allow me to select the feed that I want to feed and not be hemmed in which makes me happy.

For those that have fed this, how much per day did you feed to put weight on? I've got an approx 500kg TB that struggles with weight and muscle but also does not tolerate alfalfa nor sugar (and I am thinking soy might also be part of that mix after reading a number of posts on here). I don't think my horse + "fat" will ever go together in a sentence but I'm also determined....

Also wondering if you fed a supplement alongside? I've been feeding the equimins advanced complete along with vit e and msm. I plan on keeping the vit e and msm unless the grazing is better but would be happy to ditch the supplement.

He's currently on Saracens fibre cubes which I'm not a fan of + linseed + beet pulp (I can never remember what it's otherwise called here) + 12kg of hay/haylage fed at a 50/50 ratio. I plan on keeping the linseed in the mix.
 
I have recently moved from veteran vitality to this feed after one of my oldies dropped quite a bit. He’s approx 500kg and I give him 1 Stubbs scoop with 300g of linseed. 3 weeks in and he’s looking fantastic I would definitely recommend. As I give the recommended amount of care and gain he doesn’t need any other supplements which is great.

I rang and spoke to A&P as veteran vitality has actually more calories but care and gain suits him better .
 
I started to feed this on the recommendation of my local feed store. My old boy has been on Spillers Senior Mash, but looks as though he just needs something with a bit more to it. It's gone straight through him, given him bad diarrhoea. Something in it hasn't agreed woth him at all.
 
I haven't used it, but the first 2/main ingredients are Oat Straw Pellets and Unmollassed Beet Pulp
Beet pulp would agree with, straw usually used for feeds suitable for good doers
 
Couple of things, have you ruled out ulcers if weight gain is an issue (being a TB has he raced?) mine was struggling to put on and we did scope and found grade 2 ulcers.

Allen and page muscle and focus was brilliant for helping put on weight and muscle in my ex racer, and it’s ulcer friendly so for mine it was brilliant. I added a bit of thunderbrooks herbal chaff to bulk it out a bit and give him something to chew as he did gorge on the mash. We had him on A&P care and gain too but he didn’t put on as much as the muscle and focus.

Can’t remember the exact amount now as I’ve sold him on but we were giving a full dry scoop am and pm with chaff then obviously soaking to make a mash x
 
I use the Soothe and Gain and my horse has gone from not wintering well for the last 4 years to coming out with muscle and a decent weight for the first time. He is also VERY fussy but hoovers this up. I started him on a scoop of this , split into 2 feeds and have ended up dropping it right back this last month or two so he didn’t come out of winter too porky!
 
Interesting feedback. I looked at the soothe and gain and I think it had a lot of sugar and starch or it had alfalfa in it...I can't remember off the top of my head but I remember taking it off the table as an option for a reason that escapes me for the moment!

Not heard of the muscle and focus so will have a look at that to see if it's suitable. We have ruled out ulcers. Just for clarity, he's 19 and I've had him for 16 of those years. He has always struggled with weight and muscle but he is also an EPM horse. He did have an EPM episode probably about 12 years ago now which was treated very aggressively with Marquis and haven't had any issues since.
 
I put my old horse on it last year coming out of winter as he'd dropped a bit of weight. It put the weight back on him quickly (2 feeds per day, each of 2 mug-sized scoops of C&G and 1 mug of micronised linseed).

This winter he's dropping more weight as well as muscle (he's 31), had dental diastemas flushed out recently. I've upped his C&G to 2 feeds per day each of 3 mug-sized scoops plus 1 mug of micronsied linseed. He's put a small amount of weight back on and is stable but I want to get more cover onto him.

My friend feeds her two oldies (31 and 32) about twice the amount of C&G that I feed mine per day so I'll try the same, also handwalk him each day to eat the spring grass that's coming through. (He also has grazed grass and hay at home and lives out 24/7).
 
My mare was doing well on it until she started not clearing her bucket. She spent most of the winter on it and whilst i wouldn't have been unhappy if she had put some more weight on, she looked well.

Had she kept eating it I wouldn't have changed.
 
Thankfully mine is a wannabe piglet so I'm not concerned with him not liking it or going off of it 😂😂

I just had a look at cushcare and it looks like it has beet pulp but doesn't say its unmolassed which would be an issue. It otherwise sounds like a very good option. Molasses defo puts weight on mine but then his feet get incredibly sore so not an easy balance.

When mine was losing weight last fall, the vet (who also currently keeps her horse at the yard we are currently at) recommended unmolassed beep pulp or copra but she said she's seen more horses respond better to beet pulp. As the yard offers unmolassed beet pulp at no extra charge I went for that and while it hasn't put on loads of weight, he doesn't look terrible.
 
If you’re looking at A&P I have fed both care and gain and the soothe and gain.
C&G was good but didn’t put weight on but did fuel a quite hard working horse over the summer whose grass was limited, he did maintain so I suppose if the workload wasn’t there it would’ve done the job!
The S&G is our winter feed now and I fed about a Stubbs scoop unsoaked a day and it’s kept the weight on fabulously without blowing his mind as I found a lot of the other conditioning feeds just send him loopy.

S&G and C&G have alfalfa or soya or barley in so they are good for any feed reactive horses.
 
Yes, S&G id slightly higher in starch and sugar but so are most higher calorie foods. Mine is barefoot and has had ulcers so i was wary but he’s done well on it. I don’t think it has Alfalfa in as mine doesn’t tolerate it well
 
Barton Bounty said:
I can recommend coolstance copra for weight gain, it is pure coconut and what I fed BB with his many allergies
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I am a fan of Coolstance copra but all of mine decided to stop eating it this winter - even the one that usually hoovers up everybody's left overs. Not sure if it is specific to the bag I have but am loathe to buy another to see if it makes a difference as they are all a good weight at the moment.
 
C&G ingredient: Oat Straw Pellets, Molasses Free Beet Pulp, Linseed Expeller, Field Beans (Fava), Pea Protein, Rapeseed Oil, Di-calcium Phosphate, Salt, Calcium Carbonate, Mint, Vitamin and Mineral Premix, Fenugreek, Yeast Products (0.14%), Seaweed, Nettle, Dandelion, Fructo-oligosaccharides (0.04%)

For comparison, what would the weight gain/ability to keep weight on be from feeding something like Speedibeet (ingredient beet pulp) instead?
 
Big Old Horse is 520g and 34 years old. He is on 4kg a day plus a mug of linseed and all the hay he can eat.
When the grass eventually comes through I will probably reduce to 2kg (ish) and halve/cut out the linseed.
He has come out of winter better than ever before - that has got to be the C&G (he was previously on Spillers Super Mash)

I did consider feeding a Progressive Earth natural (rather than synthetic) Vitamin E supplement but Vit E in 4kg C&G was enough.

A&P were very helpful when I phoned.
 
I used it for a while and found it very palatable, unfortunately made my barefoot horse a bit footy. Changed to plain speedibeet and improved.
 
Zoeypxo said:
I used it for a while and found it very palatable, unfortunately made my barefoot horse a bit footy. Changed to plain speedibeet and improved.
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Did the speedibeet keep weight on your horse? My old horse has lost weight this winter so I've upped his C&G (which last winter was enough to keep him looking good) which has stopped the weight loss but not necessarily put any new weight on. (His teeth have received vet treatment a couple of weeks ago to help).
 
Suechoccy said:
Did the speedibeet keep weight on your horse? My old horse has lost weight this winter so I've upped his C&G (which last winter was enough to keep him looking good) which has stopped the weight loss but not necessarily put any new weight on. (His teeth have received vet treatment a couple of weeks ago to help).
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Yes with ad lib haylage and added linseed
 
Speedibeet alone won't be enough and I would bet my life on that just having had him for so long. This is all good feedback and meant to drop A&P a message today but have been a bit busy.

It is indeed the combined sugar and starch levels in the S&G that worries me being barefoot but that's overall, really good feedback @Identityincrisis he is naturally lazy so something that will give him enough spark would be ideal. I think when I read "not suitable for laminitics" I immediately decided not appropriate (he isn't laminitic but with all the feet problems we have had over the years....!!)
 
Care & Gain isn’t high enough DE that I would consider it a conditioning feed. I like D&H Cushcare Condition as a low sugar & starch conditioning feed, though it’s targeted at veterans it’s actually just a very good all round conditioning feed that derives its calories from various oils. I feed alongside a scoop of fibre beet and add extra linseed and/or copra if I need a bit extra in winter.
 
eggs said:
I am a fan of Coolstance copra but all of mine decided to stop eating it this winter - even the one that usually hoovers up everybody's left overs. Not sure if it is specific to the bag I have but am loathe to buy another to see if it makes a difference as they are all a good weight at the moment.
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Thats is really unfortunate, hopefully they will start eating it again 🙂
 
frankieduck said:
Care & Gain isn’t high enough DE that I would consider it a conditioning feed. I like D&H Cushcare Condition as a low sugar & starch conditioning feed, though it’s targeted at veterans it’s actually just a very good all round conditioning feed that derives its calories from various oils. I feed alongside a scoop of fibre beet and add extra linseed and/or copra if I need a bit extra in winter.
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I like the look of cushcare apart from the beet pulp as it looks like it might be molassed (I assume it's molassed unless stated otherwise)
 
Oh interesting. Will definitely ask as I don't see that on their site on my phone. How much of cushcare does everyone feed out of curiosity? The bag is smaller and slightly more expensive but if you feed even less....
 
You will feed considerably less. My 12hh pony had one small scoop and it made such a difference that she ended up on half a scoop twice a day. It's not as much volume as Care & Gain. I fed it with speedibeet so make up the volume. You don't need to soak it either.
 
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