A question and some advice - feed

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AntxGeorgiax

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I'm sorry that I've started a new threat, I feel kind of guilty tagging onto other people's !
As winter approaches, I want to feed my horse some new feed as she's more built up now.
She was very skinny and ribby last year so was being fed blue chip balancer, Alfa a with oil, flax oil, cheap mix, calm and condition, GP supplement and garlic and mint.
This year, she is fat.
However, she loses condition quickly, but keeps weight on fairly well. As well as being rugged up properly.
She is very hot-headed and cannot be on anything heating. So low heating but good for condition. Obviously she is brushed everyday. She will not be in near any work this winter as it will be too dark, apart from the odd hack/ride she will be turned away.
I will keep th calm and condition as she likes this, but the question is what would you feed now?
She is currently fed half a scoop calm and condition(when soaked goes to just over a big scoop) a big scoop of dengi hifi and cheapy mix.
I have heard a lot of controversial ideas about mix and nuts? Apparently mix has a lot more starch that cannot be digested and that pellets/nuts are healthier? Does anyone find this to be true?
So the question is: what would you feed?
I have looked at some Dodson and Horrell feeds but I find they make her loopy, any good ones?
I like the sound of baileys cool mix, and spillers mix, but has anyone had any dealings with either or any of their pellets that you would recommend?

Tea and cake if you got this far!
 
If she is very hot headed, don't feed any cereal, that includes "cheap mix" and if she's fat and turned away don't rug her unless she is clipped.

Depending on how good you're grazing is she may only need somthing like lo cal balancer or Fast Fibre and a mineral supplement like Pro Balance +

Do some research online and look at the starch/sugar contents of all the feeds then make a wise decision!
 
There is little point in feeding Calm and Condition AND cheap mix. If you like using a compound feed like this choose the most suitable one and stick to it.

Likewise, you don't need a balancer AND a GP supplement, particularly when fed in conjunction with a feed like Calm and Condition which is supplemented itself!

As for nuts/cubes versus mix, it is true that generally nuts are generally lower in starchy cereals than mixes, as cereals are needed to give the 'muesli' like appearance that owners like in mixes. However, there are some cubes that are still high in starch/cereals. Always read the labels of the individual feeds and ask for starch/sugar levels if these are not listed.

More important than what you feed in a bucket is what forage you give. Is she on hay or haylage and will it be ad lib? How much grazing does she get, and what quality is it?

When you say she is fat currently, does that mean you can't feel her ribs easily, or that she has a cresty neck or a gutter down her bottom? If so, then I would only be feeding a handful of hard feed as a token until she is back to a healthy weight.
 
I think you are mixing too many different feeds to really get the best out of them and to keep track of what works best. The calm and condition should be a complete feed for her, with some chaff and oil or linseed to add some calories with no need for a mix on top.

One of mine, in work gets just over 1 scoop, dry, c and c, mug of linseed, 1 scoop afalfa pellets in 3 feeds a day and ad lib haylage, if he loses weight I will give slightly more in each feed or up the linseed.
 
I didn't make it clear enough..
She was on a gp supplement and it wasn't doing her any good, so put her on bluechip.
Local feed store recommended the combination of feeds. She's a tb type and doesn't do well without a rug so needs one.
She has very little top line, and has quite a fat tummy, this is because she's been turned away and and will be be re-broken in the new year.
She would not cope without feed, so I am looking for a brand of mix/pellets to feed as she won't be on bluechip or any supplements apart from a scoop of garlic.
I've heard 'l mix' is good, but she's not prone to laminitis and feed stores have recommended to not use one combined mix (like old forage/complete fibre mix) but to feed cereals, chaff and a mush type to make sure she is getting everything.
The calm and condition she needs to have as she won't eat anything without it,
I've seen baileys no 2 which looks fairly suitable? Anyone used it?
 
So what is it you are actually asking?

You said she is fat and she is very hot headed but you want to feed her with mixes and a cube for working horses ?!

Why can't you just feed the recommended amount of C & C then?
 
OFGS, this is madness! The WHOLE IDEA of a compound bagged feed is that you do not have to add stuff; give a good quality forage and a standard mix: that is it.
 
AntxGeorgiax said:
Local feed store recommended the combination of feeds.
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Unfortunately, local feed stores are not always the best source of advice! They are employed to sell stuff, not be nutritional advisors!

She has very little top line, and has quite a fat tummy
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This makes it sound like she is not actually fat at all. You don't assess a horse's weight by the size of their tummy, but by looking and feeling their necks, ribs and bottoms. Can you see her ribs at all? Can you feel them easily? Could you post a photo of her current condition?

She would not cope without feed, so I am looking for a brand of mix/pellets to feed as she won't be on bluechip or any supplements apart from a scoop of garlic.
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You say she likes Calm and Condition so is there a reason you can't just give her that?


feed stores have recommended to not use one combined mix (like old forage/complete fibre mix) but to feed cereals, chaff and a mush type to make sure she is getting everything.
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Sorry, this is bad advice from the feed store - you don't need to feed cereals to ensure she is getting everything.

Can you tell me how much hay or haylage she is getting and what sort of grazing she is on?
 
That was very bad advice from the feed store I wouldn't be happy with that.
I wouldn't/won't feed cereal it's a in natural feed full off sugar/starch and the horse don't/can't get the best out of it.
Iv never had problems with weight on tbs but they get a high spec vit/min supplement in a based of fast fibre and linseed that's it and they are perfect weight and coats that look like polished glass. IMO I wouldn't feed the diet shes on to any of mine as hi fi isn't needed, cheap mix = cereal and c &c I found to be useless plus has a far bit of starch in.
 
TGM said:
Unfortunately, local feed stores are not always the best source of advice! They are employed to sell stuff, not be nutritional advisors!



This makes it sound like she is not actually fat at all. You don't assess a horse's weight by the size of their tummy, but by looking and feeling their necks, ribs and bottoms. Can you see her ribs at all? Can you feel them easily? Could you post a photo of her current condition?



You say she likes Calm and Condition so is there a reason you can't just give her that?




Sorry, this is bad advice from the feed store - you don't need to feed cereals to ensure she is getting everything.

Can you tell me how much hay or haylage she is getting and what sort of grazing she is on?
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Currently in a 28 acre field so no hay other than when she's caught.
Pic will follow in next post.

She's now being fed horse and pony cubes, baileys no4 top line cubes, Alfa a original and a scoop of calm and condition.

From my Learning from pony club and advice from feed stores and Allen and page themselves, the complete mixes (like L-mix) is best suited for my type of horse in summer, because she needs a bigger feed with more concentrate nutrients in winter,
Pic to follow in a few minutes!
 
579fb0f04dd2b3e396c53539edc42aa8_zps15e7609d.jpg




June
 
Personally I would keep it simple. I feed both ours Speedibeet, Alfa Oil, and Linseed meal, with a balancer (or vit/min supplement).

The speedibeet and the alfa oil keep them sane and full (and warm!) and the balancer makes sure they get everything, then the linseed gives them energy to hunt, and can be easily adjusted if they get too fat/thin...

IMO mixes tend to be held together by molasses and the last thing most horses need is sugar on top of all the starch!!
Yes, cubes are generally more digestible, but again they contain a lot of starch, and that can be linked to ulcers, "bad" behaviour, poor feet, lami/cushings etc etc.
 
c7367c7be47afca0f6b3e2b17f7472d8_zps35c6001f.jpg


When I first got her.
This is what I mean about needs topline.

662c30543d665bbf62a1b8e64c64e3f2_zpsc73871ac.jpg


2 weeks ago before the rain came.
When I say a fat tummy and no topline, this is what I mean, apart from she is a bit fatter now. No, you cannot feel her ribs unless you feel for them if that makes sense, they are not obvious but not unfeelable .

She needs more muscle across her back etc. but she has been turned away for the last year so this isn't neglect or something wrong with her, this is lack of work.
 
Although mine is a Sec D part bred and keeps weight easier than your TB, i was feeding Alfa A Oil, linseed oil, Baileys top line conditioning mix and forage.

He now gets Dengie Original, very cheap hilight nuts, garlic powder and biotin and to be honest he looks better now than what he ever did on all that expensive stuff.

We also have two ex racers on our yard and all they get the Dengie Mollasses Free and cheap nuts and they do fine on it x
 
JenHunt said:
Personally I would keep it simple. I feed both ours Speedibeet, Alfa Oil, and Linseed meal, with a balancer (or vit/min supplement).

The speedibeet and the alfa oil keep them sane and full (and warm!) and the balancer makes sure they get everything, then the linseed gives them energy to hunt, and can be easily adjusted if they get too fat/thin...

IMO mixes tend to be held together by molasses and the last thing most horses need is sugar on top of all the starch!!
Yes, cubes are generally more digestible, but again they contain a lot of starch, and that can be linked to ulcers, "bad" behaviour, poor feet, lami/cushings etc etc.
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Thankyou :) I switched to nuts because the typical mix was so full of molasses. She is getting a handful of fibre cubes and a handful of baileys no4 . Feed store said not to feed linseed (last year I was giving her a squirt of flax oil which is the same thing in every evening feed- but either this or the mix made her very fizzy and to the point she was dangerous to ride- please don't start a big war on I should be able to ride etc, she was being pumped full of food as she arrived to me in an awful state.)
 
JenHunt said:
Personally I would keep it simple. I feed both ours Speedibeet, Alfa Oil, and Linseed meal, with a balancer (or vit/min supplement).

The speedibeet and the alfa oil keep them sane and full (and warm!) and the balancer makes sure they get everything, then the linseed gives them energy to hunt, and can be easily adjusted if they get too fat/thin...


Brilliant advice, exactly what i feed my gelding and would have recommended.
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ok, so if linseed doesn't agree with her, then perhaps try full fat soya meal or equijewel or copra as the fat/oil source. it may just be that she found the particular profile of the linseed "heating".

Personally I suspect it was the mix, but if you'd rather play safe, I can't argue with that, you know her better than I do!
 
yaffsimone1 said:
Although mine is a Sec D part bred and keeps weight easier than your TB, i was feeding Alfa A Oil, linseed oil, Baileys top line conditioning mix and forage.

He now gets Dengie Original, very cheap hilight nuts, garlic powder and biotin and to be honest he looks better now than what he ever did on all that expensive stuff.

We also have two ex racers on our yard and all they get the Dengie Mollasses Free and cheap nuts and they do fine on it x
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Your sec d sounds like what she was being fed. While I do not want to say I am a novice, because there are so many feeds on the market I do not know what compliments what.
My old horse (driving horse rescued from gypsies) was put on bluechip straight away, and over a few months she started looking brilliant, which is why I put Georgia on it too. However, she started eating mud (needing salt) so I gave her a salt lick and it just seemed to not be doing its job, so I took her off, the pic of her in the field with another girl is her after not being on bluechip and she seems to be fine to me.
People from my yard often advise me on feeds, and one of them also works up the feed store, which is where I get my feed advice from.
Because I'm 15 and been doing horses for 7 years, and they've been doing it all their life. I take their advice mostly. :/ x
 
Without trying to sound stuck up, I do think she is looking quite nice and not losing condition yet, I just do not want her to go back to the emaciated animal I got last year, which is why I'd rather her a little on the fat side to give her a good chance this winter.
Someone also suggested to not have a rug and have no food, as she is currently in a middleweight I don't quite think your advice is too valid to my horse particularly, however the rescue hackneys are looking a little bit too well as they come into winter.
 
Hi, I agree it can be a bit of a mine field when selecting the most suitable feeed for your horse, it is very easy to feed a litlle of this and that but this can mean that your horse is not receiving a balanced diet! We recently had a Dengie nutritionist visit our yard with a portable weighbridge and to give diet advice. We all found it really useful and the advice seemed really sensible - my horse looks brillant on his new diet, he is now much calmer and I have saved money by not feeding so many different feeds. Maybe they would come out to your yard? I think some of the other companies also offer a similar service!
 
My 6yo although getting a lot less turn out then yours (4-6 hours) he has Alfa A oils, high fibre cubes and a performance balencer. He is currently on medium work. 6 times a week and at comeptitions every 2 weeks. When he did some XC and eventing in the late summer/ autumn he lost condition and was told to feed sugarbeet. However, never really looked into it as our YO has amazing Haylege that he let us buy. That's covering him atm but at Christmas he will need something more, although I'm not sure what yet!
Like yours he hasn't got the greatest topline but that's been developing slowly with his school work. He can be hot and a worrier (and is not turned out like yours) so would like more fibre based stuff than feed lots of mixes.
Yours looks like my boy last year before I upped his work and he started regular comps ( he was brought into work feb 2011 after previous owner turned him away) x
 
Also agree with Clarence we have Spillers with their weigh bridge twice a year (Spring and about now) they're brilliant!
 
To the people, with 6yo's could you please post a picture?iwould be intrigued to see how similar they look!
She's currently doing well on cubes and Alfa a original with a scoop of calm and condition. It's hard to weight score her because weight wise she is fine, muscle wise she is lacking, this is because she's never done any work. She need topline and muscle on her bum/across her back so she looks like a moderate 3, but if it was judged on fat/size not shape and muscle wasn't abig part, she'd be very good!
 
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