A question for colour/gene(?) experts regarding grey pony

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pixie

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Pony has completely white fur all over (like a barbie pony!) and brown eyes. Skin is white (pink?) all over apart from around muzzle and eyes, which is black and pink, and his skin also has a few small black spots, particularly noticeable on his chest when he has his summer coat.
My question is as follows. I/his passport refers to him as being grey, but would he be a specific type of grey? Just curious...
 
Can you get a photo?

Also, what breed? That will at least narrow things down in the absence of a photo.

If the pony is indeed grey, that's the only term you need... But if it's some high white pattern, it may have a different name. Given the black skin on the face, I'd guess it's an ordinary grey though.
 
Bar under white markings, greys should have black skin.

I agree with B that photos would be very useful, plus any information on breed and the colour of his parents.
 
Not the best photo, but you can just about make out the black skin on his chest/neck

ETS: I think he is a welshy, but I have no idea regarding who his parents were.

attachment.php
 
Can you get a shot of the muzzle? The muzzle looks like it might actually be a bit mottled... Your horse is actually very interesting... I see two very stripey hooves which are typical of heterozygous appaloosas - but heterozygous appaloosas have spots, and yours does not - except that it perhaps does on the skin from what I can see... Makes me wonder if you have a grey over appy that also has some other minimal white pattern - cause I see a white hoof there too.
 
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Definitely heterozygous appaloosa under there (as Faracat said, "leopard"). With grey on top. The front right foot has a white marking but it's probably just something minimal.

So not an "ordinary grey" at all! Your horse is a greyed-out appaloosa.

edit: Just to clarify, appaloosa colour not the Appaloosa breed. Breeding could be anything that has appaloosa patterning. Sometimes people get confused.
 
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No fewspot leopard is homozygous appaloosa with no grey. He is what's called a "leopard appaloosa" but with grey on top - which is why you can't see his spots.

edit: Just to explain a bit more, "appaloosa" is a range of white patterns that go over the top of the base coat the same way white socks, blazes, tobiano (piebald/skewbald), overo etc do.

Horses can have different appaloosa pattern genes but the most familiar one is called "Pattern 1" and produces a big blanket over the back.

To show the pattern horses must have something called the "leopard" gene. One copy gives spots (holes in the white pattern). Two copies gives more white so no spots.

Your horse looks like it has spots on the skin (as well as other appaloosa characteristics and specifically heterozygous appaloosa characteristics like those big spots on the muzzle and the striped hooves) - so it has one copy (heterozygous) of the "leopard" gene. In addition, it has "Pattern 1" - one or two copies, you can't tell from looking. As well as these genes for the appaloosa pattern, however, the horse has greyed out. As a result, what would have been dark holes (spots) in the white pattern are now also white (grey).

Your horse is basically this: https://www.breyerhorses.com/files/...LEOPARD_APP_knabstrupper_heimdal_90811_LR.jpg But has greyed.
 
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I would say 'leopard spot' due to using the term 'appaloosa' for colour being confusing. The genes involved are called the Leopard Pattern Complex (LP) and PATN (of which there is more than one version). A leopard spot has one copy of LP and has PATN 1.

This basic chart (from colorgenetics.info)is quite helpful when starting to understand how LP and PATN interact to produce spotty horses.

talkingmongo0seLPchart.png


NC = Non Characteristic/solid
CO = Characteristics Only/Varnish Roan
Click to expand...

Grey doesn't care what colour the horse was born and if the horse has one or two copies, it will grey out (although the extra slow greyers that B posted on another thread are very interesting - thanks for posting them :)).
 
I would say 'leopard spot' due to using the term 'appaloosa' for colour being confusing.
Click to expand...

Yeah saying leopard rather than appaloosa probably makes it less confusing. I will do that too from now on I think! (I didn't only because then people think a horse with LP is necessarily spotted... If only it had been called "VR" instead! :p)
 
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