A question for Iberian breed fans re: prices...

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Wolfie

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I have always fancied the idea of an Andalusian, so occasionally waste precious time looking at adverts. The prices seem to be pretty extortionate though! So, is it possible to purchase an black, bay or buckskin Iberian stallion (or maybe gelding) for about 3k? Not that I am looking right now, but might start putting some pennies by in case I end up parting company with the current geegee.
 
if you want a registered spanish horse, then not really (that ive seen advertised - prices may have dropped a bit with the recession etc)

you can get a registered foal for that though. an alternative is a gelding or an unregistered/non apto horse. hope this helps a bit
 
I highly doubt you'd find one that deserves to be a stallion for that money. You'd be better going to a small stud (or if you can manage it travel over or get a rep to go to auction) and getting young stock. Honestly,the stud I work with import from spain and consider $10000 cheap for a yearling, which is partly due to only buying the best and partly because the biggest and most famous studs know people will pay silly prices!

Also, you know you'll probably have to settle for grey, right? ;) 26 foals this year, and over 20 look like they'll grey out!
 
It depends on the bloodline; this has always impacted the prices and Andalusians/Lusitanos are never cheap- you are paying for a serious quality of horse, not only breeding, but temperament.

I think a lot of Andalusians here in the UK lose their appeal; and the good standard of training; you could probably get a foal for around 3k, but stallion you'll be looking at a minimum of 8-10k. If you want a school master, you'll be looking at around 15k; as lot of them are imported straight from Spain and Portugal.


I bought myself Peter Maddison Greenwell's 'Living and Working with the Horse of Spain', and it's got a whole chapter on buying and importing your Iberian horse; especially importing as lot of them experience a severe change in diet (for example the lack of grass out there, and brands of feed), and how to best tackle the change in climate etc etc. It answers a lot of questions. I bought it ready for when I can finally buy my Andalusian or Lusitano. It's a life long dream because I've never been so passionate about a breed of horse; so I made it my goal to learn as much about this magical breed and keep it's traditions and culture and grace, I don't want to spoil such an incredible horse.


Good luck; the Andalusians I've had the pleasure in riding are a gift to sit on and ride; they will remain a loyal steed for the rest of their lives, so long as you treat them with respect and good training, you will reap the rewards.
 
SwingHorse said:
I highly doubt you'd find one that deserves to be a stallion for that money. You'd be better going to a small stud (or if you can manage it travel over or get a rep to go to auction) and getting young stock. Honestly,the stud I work with import from spain and consider $10000 cheap for a yearling, which is partly due to only buying the best and partly because the biggest and most famous studs know people will pay silly prices!

Also, you know you'll probably have to settle for grey, right? ;) 26 foals this year, and over 20 look like they'll grey out!
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:(

Seriously though, thanks for the input guys. I suspected it would be expensive, so I will start saving now and by the time I retire I can buy myself a high quality black stallion. Just about 50 years to go now :D Might consider the foal route though...
 
Wolfie said:
:(

Seriously though, thanks for the input guys. I suspected it would be expensive, so I will start saving now and by the time I retire I can buy myself a high quality black stallion. Just about 50 years to go now :D Might consider the foal route though...
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It might be worth importing one yourself. Spain is in the middle of an economic meltdown at the moment and many people cannot afford their horses. As long as you can speak Spanish (or have a friend who can speak it) buying in Spain isn't that much more of a risk than buying in the UK, as long as you know what you are looking at conformation wise and can spot lameness.

You can pick up some gorgeous horses in Spain that for a fraction of the the cost they would be through an agent in the UK.

Here is a link to a black stallion on a website that seems to be the Spanish equivalent of our Friday-Ad... http://www.milanuncios.com/venta-de-caballos/caballo-negro-espanol-10078435.htm
 
Save yourself the bother of importing and acclimatising and buy a British bred PRE

You want a nicely bred non grey boy?

http://maryssprestud.com/PREGELDINGSANDCOLTSFORSALE.aspx

I bought my 3/4 registered colt (sharing much of the bloodline of Maryss Tigre on the above link) from a private UK breeder for a nominal sum as she was giving up breeding PRE's.

He is a stunning bright bay with an irridescent coat, exceptionally good natured, utterly adorable and easy and will top out around 16.1 so has height and substance.

There are some very well priced super horses around at the moment - keep an eye on the BAPSH for sale page on their website.
 
*sigh* I have no idea, why don't you phone the stud and ask them if it bothers you that much. I've never been, met or spoken to them and have no association whatsoever other than the fact that I just happen to have a privately british bred PRE x who has both Jardineiro X and Maryss Amalia in his pedigree in the sire line so know of the stud and the lines they are breeding...they happen to have some good quality non grey PRE's at reasonable prices - which is what the OP was asking about.
 
i have imported two PRE's from spain, bought via a broker. a 6yr old mare, grey, £3k 3 yrs ago, and a 4yr old stallion 18 months ago (who was castrated in spain for me as i have other mares) he was charcoal grey now dappled grey and fantastic breeding (YM stud) and was super cheap at £5k. all prices included delivery and 5* vetting (which is in spanish and not worth paper written on) the first horse was a gem, the 2nd a complete nightmare as terrible cribber (never mentioned and denied all knowledge) also the travel journey over blew his mind and he got sent to equisense rehab for 5 months... which worked and now he is bombproof and supercool... also he was sold to me as ''a good 15.3' .... he is actually 14.3. needless to say i wont be using that dealer/broker again. (they denied all knowledge/made excuse after excuse) andi's are super sensitive and learn quickly - good and bad. very people friendly, never forget and are super smart. my advice?? buy british, try it, watch it, throw things at it (not literally). although more expensive in UK, if you have problem, you can go back to old owner for help, and the UK law protects you. if you buy in spain, go direct. get flight over and try, try , try!! dont do what i did - trust a professional and buy blind, as if it goes wrong, you tend to find they dont answer their phone!!
 
team barney said:
In Spain you most definitely can, in the UK it is very rare and when they do come up they tend to be cheap for a reason.
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Completely disagree with this!

I would never ever buy a trained horse from Spain - they know all the tricks and none of the basics!

Lots of people come unstuck, only buy from Spain if you really know what you are doing! Yes you can get a cheap horse but there is most definitely a catch, especially if you want a non grey!

There are many people in this country breeding very good horses and you can pick up a weanling or a yearling, especially if you have a gelding, for around £3k, a 3/4yo for around £4-£5k.

There is also a common misconception that Spanish horses are easy, even the stallions, believe me, in the wrong hands they can be a nightmare. Many a well behaved stallion viewed in Spain has turned into the horse from hell once his new well intentioned owner has failed to recognise the fact that he is in fact a stallion! Poor horse always ends up the loser. They may look fairytale but they are most definitely horses.

Having said all of that - I have 7 of them and I love each and every one, each one is different and in all honesty, I would never have anything else again...ever:D

OP look in this country, the recession has brought prices down here too and there are some bargains to be had but be aware that blacks and chestnuts are more expensive and buckskins, well just add a 0 or two to the price.
 
lassiesuca said:
It depends on the bloodline; this has always impacted the prices and Andalusians/Lusitanos are never cheap- you are paying for a serious quality of horse, not only breeding, but temperament.

I think a lot of Andalusians here in the UK lose their appeal; and the good standard of training; you could probably get a foal for around 3k, but stallion you'll be looking at a minimum of 8-10k. If you want a school master, you'll be looking at around 15k; as lot of them are imported straight from Spain and Portugal.


I bought myself Peter Maddison Greenwell's 'Living and Working with the Horse of Spain', and it's got a whole chapter on buying and importing your Iberian horse; especially importing as lot of them experience a severe change in diet (for example the lack of grass out there, and brands of feed), and how to best tackle the change in climate etc etc. It answers a lot of questions. I bought it ready for when I can finally buy my Andalusian or Lusitano. It's a life long dream because I've never been so passionate about a breed of horse; so I made it my goal to learn as much about this magical breed and keep it's traditions and culture and grace, I don't want to spoil such an incredible horse.


Good luck; the Andalusians I've had the pleasure in riding are a gift to sit on and ride; they will remain a loyal steed for the rest of their lives, so long as you treat them with respect and good training, you will reap the rewards.
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Why on earth do you think that Andalusians here in the UK lose their appeal? As for the training, as per my previous post, the training in the UK is head and shoulders above anything in Spain where they tend to concentrate on looking flashy rather than the horse going correctly! I compete two PREs BD (with some success I may add) and I actually find it quite offensive that you think the standard of training here is lacking. My Advanced horse can do all the tricks including Spanish Walk, Capriolle, Levade (I trained him) but not before his basics were there! He is British bred! I have actually had Spaniards for nearly 20 years and believe me an imported 'schoolmaster' from Spain quite often has to be retrained or has knackered joints through doing too much too soon.

I agree with the remainder of your post but would also add that in Spain the stallions never ever go out to graze and some of them, once over here, suffer massive panic attacks when first turned out. A Spanish bred horse also seems to be more inclined to sweet itch than one bred here, probably because they do not have midges in Spain.

Sorry if I sound like I am ranting but I too am passionate about this breed and have first hand experience of living and working with them.

OP I hope you fulfil your dream and get your Spanish horse, be careful you are not palmed off with something that is not a PRE, it happens a lot when buying from Spain.
 
team barney said:
It might be worth importing one yourself. Spain is in the middle of an economic meltdown at the moment and many people cannot afford their horses. As long as you can speak Spanish (or have a friend who can speak it) buying in Spain isn't that much more of a risk than buying in the UK, as long as you know what you are looking at conformation wise and can spot lameness.

You can pick up some gorgeous horses in Spain that for a fraction of the the cost they would be through an agent in the UK.

Here is a link to a black stallion on a website that seems to be the Spanish equivalent of our Friday-Ad... http://www.milanuncios.com/venta-de-caballos/caballo-negro-espanol-10078435.htm
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It clearly states that this horse is NOT a PRE, it is not worth 4,900 euros but some unsuspecting soul could fall for it. It should not even be a stallion, it is unpapered and ungraded, it also looks like a cut and shut - I rest my case!
 
Amaranta said:
It clearly states that this horse is NOT a PRE, it is not worth 4,900 euros but some unsuspecting soul could fall for it. It should not even be a stallion, it is unpapered and ungraded, it also looks like a cut and shut - I rest my case!
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I am quite aware he is far from perfect, but i have seen his equals on UK websites for £10,000 plus and they were not registered either and had far poorer conformation than he does. I just sent that link as it was the first black stallion I came across on the site and the website is interesting to browse if you are curious about spanish horses.

I think it wrong to state that all horses in Spain don't know the basics, I admit many don't but the same is true of horses in this country. A lot of the time people struggle with their basics once they import them as the British tend to ride very differently to those in Spain.

I presumed the OP was a competent horseman as she was considering buying a foal/youngster to bring on herself, I therefore considered her capable of assessing any difficulties she may encounter and overcoming them.
 
team barney said:
I am quite aware he is far from perfect, but i have seen his equals on UK websites for £10,000 plus and they were not registered either and had far poorer conformation than he does. I just sent that link as it was the first black stallion I came across on the site and the website is interesting to browse if you are curious about spanish horses.

I think it wrong to state that all horses in Spain don't know the basics, I admit many don't but the same is true of horses in this country. A lot of the time people struggle with their basics once they import them as the British tend to ride very differently to those in Spain.

I presumed the OP was a competent horseman as she was considering buying a foal/youngster to bring on herself, I therefore considered her capable of assessing any difficulties she may encounter and overcoming them.
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The UK websites you mention are dealers, there is one in particular who brings in unpapered horses from Spain and sells them at stupid prices to unsuspecting people.

Not all but most of the horses backed in Spain do not know the basics and people in the UK do struggle because of that, well that and the fact that they are supremely sensitive. If you are going to buy from Spain it is inadvisable to buy from an advert on a website like the one you have provided links to, you need to go to one of the reputable studs like , for instance, Centurian, Bahrain, Maipe or Cardenas, that way you can be sure that you are getting what you pay for. The majority of people coming into the Spanish horse for the first time do not know what to look for, they get blinded by 'fairytale' looks and are unaware of the minefield that exists between a PRE and an 'Andalusian' - anything born in Andalusia (including mules) can be called an Andalusian. Then you have the import costs etc - so no not the cheapest or the safest option. The websites in both the UK and Spain are dealers, you WILL pay more and not all of them are reputable, although I know of at least two that are.

It is MUCH cheaper to go direct to the breeders in this country, I know of one who recently sold a backed bay 15.3 mare for less than £4k, the new owner is delighted - this breeder is by no means alone, there is are many many breeders in this country who breed from the best lines and produce beautiful well handled/schooled horses.

The OP does sound like a competent horsewoman, but does not know the PRE and the stallion you put in your first link is typical of the type of horse that people unfamiliar with the breed get ripped off with, having said that, he is by no means the worst I have seen.
 
team barney said:
There are many more black horses on the site some P.R.E some not, here is another example http://www.milanuncios.com/venta-de-caballos/caballo-p-r-e-27174592.htm

Edited to add, http://www.equigaia.com/ is quite an interesting site to browse also, but the prices are a little inflated.
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I have looked at the site, the PREs on there are at least as much as anything you could buy in this country, there is also a lot of rubbish on there, would not touch with a bargepole.
 
PRE - or non PRE has a massive impact upon price, and dealers/agents etc.. for decades have been using the confusion of the unsuspecting 'buyer' to make money.

It is in Spain like it is in the UK (I have lived/trained in both and not just for 5mins) there are good horsemen and well less educated, IN BOTH,

The cheap end of the UK market is like the cheap end of the Spanish market.

Price - you get what you pay for - like anything, everything.

But. to add confusion there are dealers and agents who will advertise 'mugs eyefull' animals at 'well trained correct animals prices'. They price on a visual and will tell you what you want to hear "Yes you can buy your fully trained dream stallion for £5K"
Er,... no.

I personally, and I say personally, do not like some of the UK bred animals.
That is my opinion, but to balance that, I too have seen sub standard animals in Spain too.

The best thing I can advice the Opening Poster is to do her research THOROUGHLY, do not rely upon an agent/dealer/forum poster to tell you anything, find out for yourself.

Seperate peoples opinions from FACT.

Whether you choose to visit Spain, Germany, America or buy in the UK is personal choice, whichever way arm yourself with knowledge.

I often look at some of the 'agents' adverts and sigh with dispair.

If you want RIGHT, then this comes at a price.
When you bring a budget into this, then you need to start taking things out of the equation to reduce the price.

1) Breeding - bloodlines amazing higher price - lower the price to mediocre/poor (Again bloodlines will have some determination as to what sport they may excel at)
2) Training - Correctly trained (in whichever discipline) or backstreet (as someone says lacks the basics)
3) Age - high quality trained animal is high - mediocre ill trained animal cheap
A high quality foal will be higher priced than it's poor counterpart.
4) Size/Type - how big and what build? Again dictates part of the value.

I suggest as I have said, research, and enjoy the research and save up once you understand and are firm in what you want.

The spanish horse market like the UK one, yes the lower end may be feeling some of the effects of an economic struggle, however the good horses are still good horses and their prices are not affected as some may think.

Enjoy learning and researching.
 
Thanks for all the replies everyone! There is definitely a lot of passion surrounding the Spanish horses! I was considering a young horse, as I figured I would get more horse for my money, and I would like to have a horse that will jump, dressage, hack, xc etc, and all the ads I have seen seem to be very much geared towards high end dressage (or perhaps all the tricks as Amaranta says!).

I think I will just keep saving the buttons and be patient until I can afford the sort of horse that I really want. I am very impatient, so this will be an exercise in willpower! I can now start obsessively researching, and maybe when I have a better budget I will be back asking you guys for more advice :D
 
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