A question on shoeing (NB) - sorry long post

[ihatework]

Hopefully there will be a few people on here with specific knowledge on shoeing and might be able to give me some further insight!

Background – I have a TBx with typically poor front feet. One foot is slightly narrower than the other with fractionally constricted heels. He has thin soles and has a tendency to try an collapse on his heels. He doesn’t move straight in front (dishes) with his near fore being thrown more than off fore.
In January the horse was injured, torn sesamoid ligament, near fore (the outside branch of the ligament). 9 months on and he is now almost ready to come back to work.

Current shoeing – he has standard wide web steel shoes with quarter clips to allow the toe to be kept as short as possible, set on to offer good heel support. He is the sort of horse whereby it’s a fine balance of keeping the toe short enough without laming him! My farrier is young but seems very capable and so far I’m happy with his work.

My Vet came out to review the horse this week and wanted to come back tomorrow to take some x-rays, he wants to see the position of the pedal bone so that we can shoe the horse as best possible. He also mentioned that natural balance shoes might be an option for the horse.

I’ve had a brief conversation with the farrier about this a while back who was rather non-committal! Basically he was saying that they are good in some instances but on the whole a waste of money and a marketing ploy! However my farrier said he doesn’t charge any extra as the shoes cost the same for him to buy!

So, in order for me to have a long list of questions with which to quiz my vet with tomorrow (I pity the poor chap!) can you answer/point me in the right direction to find out the following:

a) could NB shoeing be beneficial for the type of foot conformation described above?
b) I presume NB shoeing would slightly alter the way the horse moves – could this have a positive or negative effect on the damaged ligament?

Thanks for reading!

 

[sally2008]

IMHO NB shoeing could well be benefial to your horse and as, correctly applied, it puts the breakover in the proper place to allow the foot to leave ground with less effort and for the horse to move in the most efficient way then it should have a positive effect on the ligament as it will reduce strain.

If you check out Gene Ovincek (the inventor of NB) website www.hopeforsoundness.com there is a tutorial on NB which explains the principals behind it.

I'm afraid alot of farriers are sceptical if they haven't been training in the technique, many preferring to poo-poo it than accept that it is getting horses sound where traditional methods have had limited success. NB shoes are no more expensive to buy than traditional so there is no reason why this form of shoeing should be more expensive.

One final word of caution though, please, please, please, if you do go the NB route then make sure that your farrier has been thoroughly trained in NB techniques, there is now a formal certification scheme - many farriers will tell you they can "do NB" but don't have the skills - some are only too happy to put a Natural Balance shoe on a traditional trim and tell you "see I told you it wouldn't work".

 

[KJJ]

Hello,

I don't think you could commit to saying whether it will have a positive effect on your horse unless you give it a try .. however the effects I have seen in my horse have been fab!!

The comments re your farrier worry me.... It is a common misconception that ALL farriers can shoe the NB technique... NOT TRUE.

Yes they can buy the shoes (as your farrier said) but the preperation and balance of the foot is key for the NB technique to produce results!!

If you are seriously considering going the NB route then make sure the farrier you use is NB qualified it is now a certificated technique.

Sally2008 (Who will be mega proud of me) will be able to give you much more info as she is a clever lady!! LOL!!

If you do decide to go that route - good luck and I hope the results are positive

 

[KJJ]

You beat me too it!! LMAO!!!

 

[sally2008]

LMAO! Crossed posts!

Thankies for the compliment

(£5 in the post) - I was proud of you anyway!

 

[KJJ]

[ QUOTE ]
LMAO! Crossed posts!

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Thankies for the compliment

(£5 in the post) - I was proud of you anyway!

[/ QUOTE ]Tis true... don't worry about posting it, save your pennies and bring it over on Saturday!!

OK then HBT will be proud of me!!

 

[sally2008]

[ QUOTE ]
OK then HBT will be proud of me!!

[/ QUOTE ] He will indeed!

Sorry for the post hijack B&J - KJJ and I are luck enough to employ the services of one of THE best NB farriers, who is one of only four worldwide to hold the highest level of NB qualifications, Certified Lameness Specialist.

 

[ihatework]

Thank you sally2008.
I'm afraid you are talking to the worlds biggest skeptic here however i do trust my vet and therefore am willing to look further in to it.
I doubt my farrier is NB trained and I would be reluctant to stop using him, do you know where I can get a list of NB trained farriers
(I assume this is an additional qualification on top of their usual traditional farrier exams?)

 

[sally2008]

At the moment there isn't a definitive list of NB trained farriers - The Equine Lameness Prevention Organisation have one planned (www.e-hoofcare.com) but it hasn't appeared yet. The Total Foot Protection website does have a list of sorts but many of those advertising their services have never been seen at an NB course!

Edited to say, yes the NB qualifications are in addition to the standard requirements.

If you or your vet have a farrier in mind, can I suggest that you ask exactly what NB courses they have been on. Where abouts in the country are you?

 

[KJJ]

[ QUOTE ]
He will indeed!

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry for the post hijack B&J - KJJ and I are luck enough to employ the services of one of THE best NB farriers, who is one of only four worldwide to hold the highest level of NB qualifications, Certified Lameness Specialist.

[/ QUOTE ]Woohoo go our farrier!!

Honestly B_&_J - it was something that I changed to to 'see' if it made a difference and it certainly does... my horse is now about 4inches longer in the body where he can relax through his back now due to the way he stands!!!!

 

[brightmount]

I would be S-O-O-O careful with a horse that has a number of issues like yours: the uneven hooves, poor hoof condition, history of injury. I had a horse that was on-off lame for a number of months and just coming good, and then a new farrier who only did NB (unknown to me and *d'oh* I wasn't there) put on NB shoes. It was a disaster. The horse was instantly lame and didn't come right. We struggled for 6 months of box rest and eventually got an MRI scan which showed a number of pathologies. The shoes had to come off for the MRI scan and they were so different you wouldn't have known they had come off the same horse. We never put them back on, and we took off the backs, and had the hooves balanced and put right by an Equine Podiatrist, and from that point the horse has improved and is back in light work. She also is TBX.

Maybe NB can work in the right hands and with the right horse, but I wouldn't risk it on a delicate specimen. My other horse is in normal rim shoes. I don't believe in forcing the breakover at a certain point and dubbing the toes so the horse has no stability. There is also less available hoof wall to nail onto with NB so if yours has poor walls there could be a lot of crumbling around the quarters.

I may have had a bad experience, and I would not question anyone who has found the method beneficial to their horse when practiced by a farrier fully trained in the NB method.

 

[ihatework]

Thanks lynwood,
I have huge doubts that NB is the way to go with my chap, the actual quality of his horn is good and he never looses shoes, it's just his sole is really thin.
I will talk it through with the vet tomorrow so see if there are other options with conventional shoeing, it may be a case of just shoeing him more frequently.
I have heard a few people have fantastic results with this method of shoeing though so at the end of the day it probably comes down to the individual horse.

 

[seabiscuit]

Owen is NB shod, has been so for the last two shoeings, it has made a real difference I think.Not enough heel for me yet and toes still a bit long, but farrier swears that this is what he is aiming for. Owens moving better then he has ever done in his life,but that could also be due to his op and his new joint supplement. But he wasnt NB shod for the first 2 months after his op, and now having been NB shod for the last 10 weeks he is moving the best ever.

On the other hand Forrest was NB shod by a different farrier when he was in hospital, I think it was done by someone who didnt know how to do it properly, as his feet 5 weeks later look dreadfull, they are worse then they have ever been,the heel has compltely collapsed, and he is just tripping and stumbling, and the quality of the horn has drastically deteriorated. I am hoping my normal farrier will sort out on Monday.

But your boys feet sound very similar to what Owens used to be like.

 

[Tempi]

Hi Hun,

As you know my last farrier made Bloss lame. She had collapsed heels on all feet, unbalanced and not moving straight behind and bruied sole on the front. After 4 shoeings with my new (and amazing

)farrier her feet are remarkably different - she has heels, her feet arent all splayed out they are neat and compact (well for her anyways) the heels arent constricted they are opening up and her angle is getting better by the day. She has shoes on that dont have toe clips, but have flicked out edges at the backs to encourage the heels to grow and change shape.

He shoes out your way, so if you want his details let me know

xx

 

[ihatework]

Cheers P_G
Is he natural balance?

I am reluctant to change from my regular farrier as he is good, the only thing that would make me change is if the vet says definitely shoe NB and in which case I would probably look to use a farrier trained with NB shoes.

J doesn't have great front feet but I don't think I can blame my farrier for that, he does the best job he can with the feet he is given!!

Out of interest who do you use?

 

[Tempi]

I use Tim Dunning, hes totally fab. (and also going out/living with my trainer!)

Not sure if he does NB or not, Bloss's arent NB but hes certainly made an amazing difference to her.